Marak

Level 30 is the cap, and like any RPG, the levels come more and more slowly as you go.

Well then, the only loss is that the character isn't physically present to do stuff, and that character's pet (if any) will instantly vanish if they get knocked out.

More things that spring to mind now that I've beaten it finally: * Most of the Classes Uber abilities are flawed in a number of ways: 1) In order to get them to Level 6 and get the upgraded version, you need to be Level 26 (or was it 27?). So you only get to play with your moste uber ability for about 10% of the game. This ties in with... 2) Why do your uber abilities not benefit from your Mastery selections? Right now it's pretty much "put all 3 Masteries in the middle tree or you're gimping your character" since the passives scale so much better than the active abilities and are basically required to be pumped as high as possible to survive on Hard and Torment. A change that would give the Uber Ability +1 Level if you put a Mastery in each of the two trees that powers it would be a nice boon without being game-breaking, and it would allow you to get your Level 6 Uber a couple levels earlier so you could enjoy it for a bit longer. 3) They are all Active abilites that, in general, do not scale well considering that it takes about 8 points to increase it by one level, or are just generally underwhelming. Both of the Shadowwalker's Ubers and the Shaman's Earthquake? Not really worth the points considering that they aren't significantly better than the active abilities much lower in the "hurt things" trees, but still require a huge Skill Point investment. And again, the fact that no Uber ability benefits from Masteries is a huge strike against them. * Moar Scarabs! I didn't have enough, even at the end of the game, to give 4 to every character. Now granted, I MIGHT have gotten a couple if I had done the optional bosses at the end of the game, or maybe I missed a Scarab Shop somewhere, but it just seemed like that were just a little bit too rare - you never had quite enough to fill up the slots that opened up as you level. Heh, this post reads like I hated the game or something, but honestly I had a blast and feel that Jeff is getting better and better at keeping things properly balanced. I think at this point I'm just nit-picking, but hey, what else do I do while waiting for Avadon 2 (besides roll a new party and go the "screw you Redbeard!" route)?

I think you might not get XP for monsters killed while unconscious? That's about the only drawback other than being short a Party Member until you use a Resurrection Scroll or win the fight. Heck, the XP loss (if it even happens) isn't that big of a deal. My characters were level-capped and I never even beat the optional bosses near the end of the game. You should be fine XP-wise even with characters getting knocked out frequently unless you do something silly like forget about 50% of the game's side quests.

Actually the plot as a whole makes about 300% more sense once you confront Click to reveal.. Heart Miranda near the end of the game and she basically confirms that Click to reveal.. the entire game you've been given missions and tasks and companions designed very specifically to show you the bad side and weaknesses of Redbeard and Avadon. At least Jenell and Nathalie's side quests were tolerable and didn't force me to kill a bunch of people that specifically had Avadon's backing from prior services rendered. Hunting down a Rogue Shaman using her Nature powers in hideous ways, who is capturing and murdering people for Jenell? Yeah, that's doable. Killing a Drake that uses your mind-eaten human companions against you and cowardly hides behind about 700 different illusions for Nathalie? I'm all over that. However, siding with Sevelin was pretty ridiculous considering A) he was a crybaby and I think I used him for about 3 seconds total throughout the whole game (when Shima was gone). But I did it anyway, just because I wanted a "everyone <3s me" save. Siding with Shima also stunk because I used him constantly and he had a build I liked and he was geared to the teeth... so I didn't want him going all emo on me. Alas, there were zero reasons to help him complete his side quest other than "I don't want him going emo on me". I wanted nothing more than to walk right back out of that ravine, pulling him along by the ear - but by that point he had become my indispensable "tank" character. As others have alluded to, I think the biggest problem with Avadon is that the game prods you constantly to denounce Avadon and Redbeard. Constantly! As in, "18 times a mission and I'm barely exaggerating" constantly. But then, if you go ahead and actually do this thing that the game is basically telling you to do, you're forced into this grueling, super hard, hours long, monotonous, frustrating, "bad ending super-secret omg" Boss Fight with Redbeard that the average player is going to try once, die after 45 minutes of tedious combat, and ragequit. Staying loyal to Redbeard and Avadon and getting the "good" ending feels like the wrong thing to do. Turning against Redbeard and getting the "bad" ending (assuming you can defeat Redbeard, which is very difficult) feels like the right thing to do. Oh well, it sounds like I'm griping hard on the game's plot at this point, but honestly I had a blast playing it. I can't think of any non-Spiderweb game where a dialogue choice would pop up and I'd end up rereading all the choices and actually feel nervous about picking the wrong one even though I can go back with F4 and re-do the conversation. It's like reading a good book: very hard to put down, even if you're not real keen about the hard choices the Main Character is forced to make.

Oh man, I can only imagine doing an LP of A2 and then completing everything, including all side quests and all 3 "win the game" quests. "Hey guys, welcome back to Let's Play Avernum, Part 3487!"

Another fun and easy to miss command: Control-click (for Windows at least) will put an item directly into your Junk Bag. This can be done with items in your bags, on the ground, or in a container. Very, very handy.

I dunno, A1 is the only Avernum I never actually bought. I got started with A2 and then went right into A3 and after playing those 2, it's too difficult to shell out the cash for A1, especially since you know how it ends, who the Big Bads are, etc. from talking to people in A2. So, to be able to play A1, with a tweaked A6 or Avadon engine, with a few extra dungeons or quests, refined dialogue, and so on, sounds good to me. I'm sure those that have played A1 extensively are less enthusiastic about a remake. Sort of like how I think about a remade A2 and sort of mentally shrug my shoulders. Lastly, that "timetable" I made is pure speculation based and what I've read (and heard in Podcasts) from Jeff. Putting out remade early Avernums with all the engine enhancements and lessons learned from making A4-6 and G4-5 and Avadon in order to generate some extra cash to fund Avadon 2-3 sounds reasonable to me. On the other hand, I can hear the naysayers griping about remade Avernum 1 being the 3rd incarnation of said game.

Took some digging, but here it is, straight from Jeff's blog. I'm pretty sure he also talks about it in one of the Podcasts he's linked in some of his much more recent blog posts.

re: Impudent Strumpet That's something I hadn't really thought of... get yourself Battle Blessed and Hasted so you start with extra AP and might "proc" an extra attack, then use Wands or Scrolls until you're down to 3 AP or less, and THEN unleash your standard attack. I still think Wands should do more damage but have fewer charges. Something along the lines of 25 or 33% more damage but only 1-4 charges - would help them better fulfill their obvious "crap, I need to kill a couple more of these things because I can't survive another round of attacks like that" role.

I was wondering this too, as the way the wizard is acting at the end of that sequence gives you a lot of hints as to the origins of the Beast and the hidden Lab. Thankfully, one of your future missions will take you back to Dhorl Stead and you'll be able to investigate further.

The weird bug I keep encountering is having a pet out, going up a flight of stairs, and immediately going into combat mode because of some nearby enemy. In this case, my Pet is still stuck on the previous floor. When its turn comes up, I can't move it (no matter where I click I get the 'Character cannot reach that space' error) and it can't attack (I get the 'Character cannot target opponent it can't see' error). I actually ended up having to use consumables that I wouldn't normally have to expend because I was "missing" my Meat Shield and was unable to summon a new one ('you cannot summon a new Pet with one already active' error) for several rounds.

Shima's quarters and Jenell's quarters are right next to each other in that lower area. The staircase down is in the Southern part of the Kitchen, near the table where Shima is. The Kitchen is like, 3 feet west of the stairs that lead to Redbeard's Hall.

I was going to say that I had 6 when I turned the quest in successfully but if Randomizer says you only need 5 I'm quite inclined to believe him. Also, as others have said, there are pillars scattered around 2 or 3 underground locations in that zone, if you can't get back into the Merula area.

Wishlist eh? I'm game. * Clickable Mini-map. Already suggested, but I have to second it. Having to click across the current game screen to start your characters walking, and then having the scroll the screen all the way to the exit (or lair or whatever) with the arrow keys or multiple clicks or what have you, when you have this ginormous overlay... every time I hold down Tab I try to click on the overlay to set my camera there. It's intuitive, it's the first thing you think of when that big old overlay pops up in the middle of your screen, AND YOU CAN'T DO IT. /rage * Slightly larger Demo. I know, I know, bad for business and all, but to be perfectly honest the Demo didn't do much for me. Yes, I was enjoying the story but the game as a whole hadn't grabbed me and instilled me with that "oh [censored] it's 4 AM but JUST ONE MORE QUEST" feeling that Spiderweb games usually hit me with right off. I think if there had been a few more areas to explore and a few more (side) quests to do I would have been hooked instead of buying the game on the assumption that it would get better (it does) and because putting money in Jeff's wallet = more games in the future. * Better Wands and Scrolls. Make them a bit rarer perhaps, or have the same number lootable but with fewer charges each, and up their damage and/or effectiveness. I've had this issue with every Spiderweb game ever. My characters end up swimming in Wands (and Scrolls) because honestly, why use 2 Wand/Scroll charges in a turn in order to do the same damage as your single character-based, mana-using Spell? Yes, there are some Wands that offer weaker versions of spells you can't get yet and yes, those are nice, and YES, you can use them while Out of Mana, but relying on wands because you're overextending yourself or not managing your Mana Potions is your own fault. At one point I think I had 13 Wands of Ice split between my Party Members, who only remembered that they had them when fighting a Named foe or Boss - and then they subsequently remembered why they never use wands, when they hit for 33% of a regular attacks' damage... yeah. Rarer, more effective offensive consumables would be awesome.

I tend to agree, when the Demo Demon popped up I was admit I was a little disappointed. I think like you said, one more area or just a few more quests REALLY would have hooked me. I bought the game for a number of reasons (supporting Jeff with real-life cash = more games down the road and prior excellence being the two biggest) but I'm completely comfortable in saying that the Avadon Demo did not hook me. I really got hooked right about the time I returned to the Kva for the 2nd set of missions there. Now obviously, that's way, way too long for the Demo but something in between those two would be nice for the Avadon 2 Demo's length. But that's just the greedy consumer in me talking. =p Also re: Death Knight, the Shaman isn't meant to melee. The game doesn't make it terribly clear, but she's a caster. If you have her staff-type weapon selected (instead of her ranged slot) she actually does a long-range Lightning attack that scales with "weapon damage" and (very slightly with) Intellect for 0 Fatigue. Sort of like a magic bow with infinite ammo and slightly shorter range. Once I figured that out, and I got my Wolf summon to charge in and bite things for me, it was smooth sailing.

Originally Posted By: Kelandon On my second playthrough, which I'm thinking about posting about as I go, I'm going for a slightly harsher take. I will kill anyone who appears to be an enemy of Avadon or of me. I think this path leads to killing Redbeard and taking over at the end, but we'll see. Uhh, you're going to be lording over an awfully empty world by the time you're done. I think you just named about 98.6% of the NPCs in the game as people you're going to snuff. =p

I know I personally struggled with a lot of Quests and heck, even dialogue options. Trying to be the bad-ass Hand of Avadon while still maintaining some compassion for the helpless villager is a tough road to walk. To the OP: the tone and the combat are different enough from previous Spiderweb titles to at least warrant a look. In particular, the combat benefits from a lack of mindless Area of Effect spell spamming and rewarding the use of synergy between character classes. Try a playthrough of the Demo areas on Normal or even Hard and see if you feel challenged. This game, to me, is the opposite of most Spiderweb games I've played. Usually they start off very strongly and then kind of lose steam as the main plot goes along (*cough* Avernum 6 *cough*) but I found this game to be just the opposite. I wasn't terribly impressed with the Demo or even the first post-Demo mission, but after a while, I found myself drawn into the plot and the fact that I wasn't the Pristine Good Guy beating up the Unerringly Immoral Bad Guys. I found myself simultaneously looking forward to and dreading each choice I had to make - because your choices are never black and white, and someone is always going to pay the price. Makes for compelling gaming, if you're into that sort of thing. Which I am.

Originally Posted By: Impudent Strumpet! And, Jeff: I dunno. I think people can appreciate both kinds of fiction - I know I can. Sometimes being the unquestionably good guy smiting the unquestionably bad guy is all you want, and other times you want a deep, messy, squalid little world where there is no right choice, and you don't really make much of a difference. I prefer the latter, and Avadon (and the later Geneforge games) were great for this, but there's definitely room for both kinds of adventures. This. In a way it's a GOOD thing that Avadon has this darker, more politically realistic mood. It's just another aspect that keeps it well apart from Avernum - another way to "keep things fresh". On the other hand, too much of it (at least for me) gets to be a downer. I hate that feeling of doing a quest for Beleaguered Townsfolk A only to have to turn around and have Quest You Have To Do To Advance The Plot destroy his life. All that said, I'm having a blast with Avadon and am greatly enjoying some the MMO influences (skill trees, ability Cooldowns) and the way they change up the combat vs. the later Avernum titles I've played recently.

I decided to do something different: I made my main character the Shaman. And then I ended up taking Nathalie (I love mages in general and she's a riot most of the time) and Shima along. Playing on Hard, since Torment just frustrates me. I found something out. Shima the Shadowwalker with his middle tree pumped way up (with +2 or even +3 from Masteries) and his teleport/self buff abilities in the right tree up to at least Level 3 each is a surprisingly effective Tank. He can wade in with high armor, great resistances (all 71-84% currently including Armor), a TON of Parry and Riposte, and respectable HP, too. Give him the Teleport Scarab on top of his Shadowstep and he can be any where, any time. I have him charge (or teleport) into a group of foes and use Blade Whirlwind to get their attention. Then I use his Focus to get the Blessing and Spine Shield. Then I park him next to the Shaman's pet and backstab everything into oblivion. Also, regarding Shaman summons: they seem weak, and their melee attacks don't scale very well, but I found something important out: Salamanders and Hellhounds have special abilites. You can't set them up on the Quick Spell list, but they are there nonetheless. Next time you have one of those 2 pets out, and they're active, hit the 'a' key (or whatever you have 'use ability' hotkeyed to). Salamanders can use Radiate Fire (same effect as a Scroll of Circle of Fire) once every 6 turns. Has a HUGE radius and deals pretty good damage. Hellhounds can use Cone of Fire (same effect as a Wand of Fire) once every 4 turns. Has the standard Cone radius and deals roughly the same damage as the Salamender's Radiate. I'm assuming the Drake will have some ability to use as well, but I'm not quite level 27 yet so I can't play with it. The Salamander almost single-handedly allowed me to defeat the perma-hasted Incubi packs which had previously mopped the floor with me on more than one occasion: Initiate combat, buff up, get the 'mander active, open the door... Salamander walks thru, casts Radiate Fire, and BAM, all the Incubi are glued to him, chain-casting Cone of Fire (which he's immune to) while everyone else sneaks into the room and works the Incubi over from the sides, safely out of the reach of the cone attacks. Anyway, I know for a fact that Shaman/Shadowwalker/Sorceress isn't a 100% min/maxed super uber party, but the way the game is balanced I've found that it doesn't matter that much. You just have to take full advantage of every ability and the synergy those abilities have with the other 2 party members. Example: Shaman Pet in melee + mobile Shadowwalker with Backstab Shaman Spirit Charge + Sorceress AoE (just keep your Shaman with higher Dex for optimum benefit) I say, don't let discussion about the "best" party influence you too much. I've been having a ton of fun with my "no way this is going to work holy crap I just slaughtered that entire dungeon" Party

Yeah, at least with the larger, Tab-held-down Map, your explored (ground) areas will appear in Grey.

It's this sort of thing (also present in Avernum 5) that can be wearying after a while. Is it more realistic, more "deep" that both sides have (significant) faults? Sure. Does it make you feel like a Hero? No. I like to feel like the Hero at the end of the day in my turn-based, story-driven RPGs. It's bit depressing that, in Avadon especially (but again, A5 had a lot of this too), every choice you make ends up ruining and/or ending many people's lives. Is it a realistic consequence of wielding that sort of power? Absolutely. Do you get warm fuzzies when you turn in each major quest? Quite the opposite. I guess for me it's a good thing that Jeff said in one of his recent blogs that the Avernum re-writes are going to attempt to bring back more of that "good guys save the (under)world" feeling.

Well yeah, this a new series for Spiderweb. Over the next 2-3 years we'll see the following (assuming Jeff follows his current stated plans): Avadon (just released) Avernum 1 remake using latest engine Avernum 2 remake using latest engine* Avadon 2* Avernum 3 remake using latest engine Avadon 3 *these middle 2 could easily be swapped

Originally Posted By: Master1 In my first run through, I tried to walk the line and hold off my decision until the very end. I ended up with pretty much everyone dissatisfied with me. Jeez, I hope I don't end up doing this myself. I've been taking the stance of "do what Redbeard says, loyalty to the Pact, hoo rah rah" but then attempting to temper that with some compassion and trying to keep the Little Guy from getting trampled on by the Powers That Be. So, I've been waiting to be given some sort of semi-obvious choice like: "Do this morally reprehensible thing Redbeard's Way which seems cruel but is supposedly in the best interest of the Pact as a whole," or "Do this morally reprehensible thing in a way that SEEMS like it might be more compassionate but is sure to piss off Avadon/Redbeard and will probably turn out poorly for everyone but your Party anyway," because let's face it, doesn't that sound EXACTLY like the sort of 100%-shades-of-grey, everyone-is-partially-wrong, no-matter-what-someone-suffers vibe that Jeff presents us with continuously in this game? Unfortunately, it hasn't happened yet. From what I've been reading about the game while trying to stay mostly spoiler-free, I wonder if it'll ever happen at all.

Once again, immersion. How would your party know if a monster was too tough for them unless they engaged it in combat? I like that Jeff is trying to cut down on the meta-gaming a bit, gives the game that constant feeling of "oh crap, I better be careful, I don't know what might pop up and kill me". On the downside, F3 and F4 take a lot of that right back away again.