Goldengirl

Quote: Originally written by geist: I would like to first off say, I would like to see a decent amount of new spells in G5, with a few innovative ones in the mental magic category that have miselanious purposes, somewhat like unlock, and of course some new battle magic and blessing. Second thing...I realize it is going to be a while...a decent while, but do we haev any ideas when G5 betas or G5 might come out? I only learned about Geneforge 3 weeks ago so I don't know when G4 came out, or how quickly the games are realesed. Jeff usually takes a year when he's working from the ground up. That and he alternates between games. First Geneforge III, then Avernum IV, then Geneforge IV, now a rather short time with Nethergate: Ressurection, then Avernum V, then Geneforge V. So, don't worry about missing them, they wouln't be for a while.

Quote: Originally written by geist: We could all donate monies....and then we could haev the fantastic geneforge 5 mmorpg!!!!! dun dun dun dun dun dun ... just kidding. But seriously, another idea I think that might be overpowerd would be custom class, though im sure theres some way to make it not overpowerd. The classes, as I've heard it, are pretty much custom. Some classes are more customizable then others, but still.

Quote: Originally written by Haakai-Tender Valcrist: I have one wish..though it may not be related to G5..and this certain wish will, perhaps, never happen.. A MMORPG Geneforge! POW!! Oh yeah..how about the usage of the Geneforge again by the PC? Unless Jeff somehow got one million dollars and a free network with no mantainence costs, that would be extremly unlikely to happen. As in, don't get your hopes up for a Geneforge MMORPG. Ever. By the way, in G1 and G4 you can use the Geneforge.

Quote: Originally written by geist: Two things to clarify. First of all. What I mean by open ended isn't that you can change sides, thats a given, but the fact that areas won't be so...completable... like for instance monster spawns or maybe like a mercinary camp, where you can train and maybe recruit a few people, etc. and there would always be something to do there, unlike in G4 where for instance, you go through an area, kill everyone, learn the spells that are there, move on, done. Get what I mean? The second thing. What I meant by divied the general skills set is not to split the existing ones, just make add some and lower their influence in the game. For instance, right now there is no way you could have gone through G4 and done pretty much anything if you didn't have at least 6 leadership and 8 mechanics. What I think is that maybe the general set should be split into, leadership, security, stealth, luck, and athletics. Athletics would allow you to get to certain areas and give you maybe an extra AP in battle every couple of levels or something, etc. Stealth would make it that people would have to be closer to you to see you and would also allow you to see further, etc. you know, stealthy things.. Also security should be exapanded to pickpocketing. Those skills could be revised or new ones added, etc, but what I mean is basically make those several skills that would complement your class, ie. the infiltrator might invest into security and stealth, whlist the warrior might invest leadership and then lets say they both have to get into the keep for a certain mission, well the infiltrator would sneak past the gaurds while the warrior might convince them to let him in or maybe the servile would use his alchemy(mentioned later) to make a potion which lets him be invis for ten seconds of 10AP of battle and walk right past the gaurds, that you could also use when you are not in battle, another might be alchemy that would let you make potions, etc. or crafting, which would allow you to make swords and stuff with bircks, etc that you could buy and the higher your level you could make verious things, instead of have them be pretty much manditory skills that are just there.. Another thing I want to see in G5 which would completment the open-endedness that I have talked about would be slightly bigger areas, like the actuall individual areas, with maybe one or two of them actually being like big cities, not like the big shaper outpost in G4 but like a real city, with shops, and all. What do you guys think? Before I go on, I'd like to say that you should use paragraphs. It makes it much easier to read your text. Now then, you're saying that if you kill everyone in a city, and then come back, there should be more to do? I don't think that is very realistic. Or are you saying that new things should come to a city, like wandering merchants or something? That would be nice. A few of those skills, like stealth, are reasonable. However, other skills like alchemy, seem like a waste of time. It seems to be a time-consuming task, so having our PC do it seems to be a lot of work. I also don't like making it there are class specific traits. On bigger cities, this is a war. As seen by Valeya and Poryphra, all the big cities get destroyed. Not to mention you made this idea rather vague.

A nasty force already forced the Shapers and Rebels into a temporary alliance. It was called Monarch. Serviles have already been discussed excrutiatingly. It is possible, but not likely. Although Jeff added the new uber-loyalist battle serviles in G4, so it is more likely now then ever. Bah, Alwan and Greta have served their time and both became rather dull by the end of G4. However, Miranda should stay as she is my favourite Shaper. Skilled, definitly sticks out in a crowd, and is an uplift/comic relief. PCs don't show up in latter games. It's not Jeff's style, and would tell what the PC did in the last game. Doesn't really work out in a big open-ended game like this. Ehem, people actually want to see the result of the war, not some post-apocalyptic copy game. Not to mention that there hasn't even been real mention of the gods.

Quote: Originally written by geist: I have G4 but I only got it recently, I literally played the first 2 hours and then said, "I have to have this game", so I haven't finished it yet, so I don't really know how things end, but I have kinda got what happens from reading the post about the infiltrator. Also another thing that would please me greatly would be for the general or whatever category it is (leadership, mechanics, and luck) to be expanded and made cheaper with of course them not playing such an ube rimportant role in the game to compensate with them being cheaper and since there would be more skills they wouldn't have to be as important individually. I'm not sure what skills exactly it would be comprised of, but i'm sure you guys could come up with at least a few great ones. Good idea? So your saying divide the Leadership skill into Barter, Convincing, and Tricking? Or dividing the Mechanics skill into Lockpicking, Mine Disarming, and Trap Disarming? In return for making them each individually cheaper, of course. I suppose that could happen, but I don't see any reason for it to happen.

Quote: Originally written by Infernal Flamming Muffin: A few remaining barzites appearing to make trouble would make G5 a little more interesting. M+m's as food item Big epic battle (like in A2). A moving spawner battle would be very interesting. Yes, a few remaining Barzites causing mischief a la Monarch, Shaping a mobile Creator, requiring the Shapers or Rebels (depending on the PC) to charge them in an epic battle would be interesting.

The Geneforge games have always been very open ended, geist. Have you bought any of them? The Shapers will probably, depending on which ending is chosen, start teaching magic quickly and make becoming a Shaper easier. However I'd like to remind you that the middle of a warzone is not the best place for an apprentice to train. Unless it was the Sholai, who really don't have the man power, or the Trakovites, who might have the man power, the new force would be to weak. That already happened in the Fens of Aziraph, pre-Monarch's death. Of course the monsters that get spawned don't give experience though. Pity. Missle weapons giving stat bonuses sounds cool, and definitly possible. Personally, I'd like to see the Trakovite ending so that all three sides have pretty much equal power. Along with more refugees, more people taking advantage of the chaos, (bandits, cultists, etc.) Alwan and Greta dead, and new player shaped creations. (Golem, Shade, and a shapeshifter like the Titan was)

Quote: Originally written by Haakai-Tender Valcrist: Fusing creations..mix an Artila and a Fyora..you get an Acid-spitting lizard..of course, you can't fuse Fourth-Level Creations..that's just not right..right? Fusing creations would require a lot of work from Jeff. What happens when a charged creation and a non-charged creations fuse? The number of permutations are far too large. The only way this could possibly be feasible is if Jeff cut out level 2 creations, (cryoa, charged vlish, Ur-Drakon, etc.) and only let fusing inside tiers (fyora-artilla, not fyora-vlish). In other words, it would look wrong and be implausible to introduce.

Are you kidding? There is no doubt that the Insidious Infiltrator would go Trakovite. When reading through, Valeta Blue always sympathizes with the Trakovites, except when Val kills them of course. I mean, when Val didn't use a canister fso she could get a Trakovite quest, well, it was obvious. EDIT: Forgot the italics

Fine, fine. You would think it would be harder to steal the enemy's creation designs, but whatever. That still leaves Gazers, Drayks, and Drakons though.

Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: I'm not really sure why you think so many creations would have to be divided up. The only creations that Shapers have banned are drayks, drakons, and gazers. (Well, and spawners, intelligent serviles, and shades, but the PC can't make those anyway.) Dikiyoba. Drayks, Drakons, Gazers= All to intelligent for use, thusly banned. Everything else= Other then the Rhotghroth, (I can't 100% remember) I think they were created independently, and the other side doesn't have access to the knowledge.

Just for realism's sake, a solution to loyalist hauling around Drayks/Drakons/etc: Rebels teach Drayk, Loyalist parallel is Shade (magical, not spiritual) Loyalists teach Kyshakk, Rebel parallel is mole-like creature (agile) Rebels teach Rotghroth, Loyalist parallel is a turtle-like creature (thorn damage) Loyalists teach Wingbolt, Rebel parallel is Shapeshifter (like the Titan did) Rebels teach Drakon, Loyalist parallel is Golem Loyalists teach War Trall, Rebel parallel is ape-like being Rebels teach Gazer, Loyalists teach Parasite Bugs (5 Bugs count as 1 slot, swarming style)

Quote: Originally written by Delicious Vlish: I am guessing that interest in this game has slumped. Nobody comments on the insidious infiltrator, and not many folks are commenting here. So I guess I am going to save the effort and hang this up. For the record, I mooshed the golem in the fen, and I went toe to toe with Monarch and survived. I am paying attention, and would like to know atleast the details of your fight with Shaper Monarch.

Quote: Originally written by DrPraetorious: It wouldn't be that much of a departure from the rest of the series to have you play a servile/lifecrafter. You have the *option* of play one in GF4 (although it's the weakest class overall, I'd say.) I should summarize what I had in mind from the previous thread: * Area is wilderness with significant circle-of-the-drayk type infestation. * You go on a vision quest and come back able to shape. * There are ruins there with scads of valuable goodies in them, both sides think they will change the direction of the war. * The shapers, rebels and sholai have all shown up to try and get their hands on the buried treasure. In terms of gameplay this isn't a departure from other GF games at all - it just has four factions instead of two. It's not playing as a servile, it's the plot. The whole series has been about the Rebellion, and suddenly we have the crazy thing out of nowhere. The Rebels and Sholai have no reason to be in the plot what so ever. The Sholai are off doing there own thing, while the Rebels are to busy with fighting a monumental war to start some colony in a crazy land. Every rebel they send over there is a rebel that could be better used Shaping an army to combat the Shapers. What's more, how could there be this huge area full of serviles and drayks, if there was not some kind of Shaper there. Your story just doesn't make sense.

Quote: Originally written by DrPraetorious: Anyway, what quests does the circle of the drayk want you to perform? You get your initial magical powers as a result of an ascetic vision quest - there are additional visionary quests you can perform for various rewards. These rewards come as magical tattoos which cause social problems later in the game, in a fashion similar to (but parallel with) the canisters. Orthodox: * There are humans trying to settle our lands. Kill them and wear their skins! * Find the drakons, bring back their teachings. * Get the shapers and the rebels to kill one another, when they are weakened, we can eject them by force. * Bring back choice sacrifices to the circle. * Prove that the reformists are weak, human-sympathizing apostates. * Drive away the sholai to prove our strength. * Raid passing caravans for loot, slaves and sacrifices. Reformist: * Convince the humans not to settle here - negotiate peaceful co-existence with the distant humans. * Avoid being pulled into the drakons conflicts. * Get the shapers and the rebels to fight somewhere else. * Bring magical objects, treasures and lore to the circle. * Get the orthodox to calm down. * Come to a negotiated arrangement with the sholai. * Make trade agreements with our neighbors to strengthen the prospects of peaceful co-existence. In addition, there are a number of vision-quest type mysterious errands that provide tattoo rewards. You get the rewards from individual drayks. Some of the drayks are pretty insane, some of them find being worshipped by serviles somewhat revolting. None of them want anything to do with the rebels - and most of them would rather keep hiding from the shapers than fight them. Possible tattoo rewards: * Skill increases. * New spells. * Permanent personal regeneration. * Permanent personal spine shield. * Permanent boost to AP. * Permanent boosts to one or another resistance. * Secondary melee attacks. Also, some of the drayks will teach you spells or shaping if they like you. These cultist groups are isolated and weak you know? They either exist in the shadows, forgotten lands, or, in G4, the borderlands of a warzone. They are the weed that came in while the gardner was busy. Without a doubt, the Shapers were here first. The Shapers Shaped the serviles after all. Lastly, this would repel the theme of the entire series. Jeff tried something new and exciting once. It was called Nethergate, and it flopped badly. Jeff can't afford to let the company take another blow like that again. Honestly, how many people do you think would buy this game? Not me, I can tell you that much.

Quote: Originally written by DrPraetorious: There's not a lot of ambiguity about who is and is not an alchemist, even if the alchemists are poorly organized, or totally dependent on shapers to pick and train them, they've clearly got some kind of formal training and certification in their specific field. Invariably they would have their own political interests - especially if they're stuck in the middle of a civil war. Regardless, they don't have any organization. Being an alchemist is like being a literate person. They're to general and individualised to have any organization for what they want as a group. What's more, they have little reason for wanting the war to end. Continued battle will mean more people need to be healed, meaning more profit.

Quote: Originally written by DrPraetorious: It'd be nice if creations (as well as other allies) had a secondary attack button so that they too could switch attacks. This has been a gripe of mine about fire creations since GF1, that it can be a real pain to get them to bite people. Really though, why do you need a secondary attack? The ranged attack is so much better then the melee for magic and fire creations, glaahk excluded. Quote: Originally written by DrPraetorious: Liberal shaper stuff: ... Conservative Shaper stuff: ... The thing is, the Liberal Shapers are few in number. They are either rebels, or exiles (Sharon, Khrhyk [sp?], Uchitelle). They aren't enough to do anything. Quote: Originally written by DrPraetorious: [QB] Lesser Mages (not a faction per se): * The mages who do all the crystal stuff ("Lapidaries") are trying to continue their crystal research in spite of the war, which is hard. They're obviously shaper clients, but many of them are rebel sympathizers (if not actually rebels.) If you can help them, they should give you a golem. * The alchemists ("Alchemists") are trying to hold society together. They're heavily involved in the public health and welfare programs that the liberal shapers are instigating. If you can convince them that you're sincere about minimizing casualties, they'll send a juicer mercenary with you - his secondary attack causes him to chug a random pod (so he either buffs or heals himself,) for 3 AP and a pile of spell energy (representing his somewhat limited supply of pods.) * Whoever it is who does the crazy architecture and obviously magic-assisted construction ("Masons") want to explore pre-shaper ruins. One of them is a scholar and will go with you if you bring back an interesting report - besides filling the game's profound need for a hot archeologist chick with glasses, she knows war blessing and speed.QB] Another problem, the Shapers seem to control who has the power of magic. The Trakovite in the Fens of Aziraph (not Khrhyk [sp?]) said he learned all of his magic at a Shaper University. He's obviously not a Shaper. The sages who study crystals either produce weapons, power supplies, or magical tools. The alchemists we have seen in every game are loosely connected, if connected at all. Lastly, the masons... well it seems as if they are just brute force mages. You can't simply lump all magicians of the same practice (other then the Shapers) into a central guild. The Shapers wouldn't allow a competing guild to take up power.

If you need help doing something as simple as that, well... that's sad. All I can say is that you should probably take it bit by bit. In case you're being sarcastic, we do it by focusing on the plot, which is amazing, and to a lesser extent the strategy.

Purity Workshop B. Back up a bit from the magma pools and go north. You should find some controls, and you can use them to disable the magma pools (well...). If you need info like this again, I'd try checking the walkthrough, which is online.

Quote: Originally written by An Iffy Muffin: Check ET's post, minimod. Yes, the Emperor asked if he wanted bread with his whine. That doesn't mean you can image spam a picture of bread. Now, the easiest is definitly leaning towards the Shapers. Canisters, and maybe not giving away the specs to keep the Grayghost region from killing on sight. Really though, I haven't tried loyal without giving the specs away.

Quote: Originally written by Ek Wayid: GF 5 will bring out the aweful truth, that which we have dreaded to ponder, the reason that the shapers have kept the shaping powers so secret... see, long long loooong time ago the lifecrafters invented a new creation, one which was intelligent, functional and in the end gained shaping powers themselves... these were the humans, which were created in the shaper's image (except their noses were a little smaller...) These humans eventually rose up against their creators and after a long struggle actually defeated them...and enslaved them...and reshaped them... into the simple serviles which we know of today. Anyway, the "Creators" have returned to Terrestia, and man are they p*ss*D off, at the humans, and the serviles in the revolution, all degenerate children of the shaping arts... it will take a united coalition of Shapers and Rebels to save Terrestia from the new threat of the "ancient creators"... Anyway, that's how GF 5 would look from my humble perspective... The proto-Shaper theory of G1 is just that. A theory. Even though the Rebellion is coming full circle, seeming to turn towards becoming the Shapers, this doesn't seem likely.

The Shapers recieve the Unbound specifications, but they're incomplete, and as a result they can't put up an adequate defence when the Unbound attack the Western Morass in their full glory. The Shapers continue to fight, having a rough ability to defeat the Unboung, and the war goes from Eastern, to Central, to Western Terrestia. Rebels: They're powerful, but not invincible. The Shapers are able to destroy the Unbound, and gained territory is usually lost between the time the Unbound are destroyed and the next Unbound arrive. Shapers: They have the power to defeat the Unbound, but not indefinetly. They also have called out the army from the other continent, and are at a stalemate with the Rebels. The Unbound surge forward, taking land, the Shapers destroy them eventually, and retake the land, and then the process repeats with the same borders. Trakovites: Gaining power immensly, having recruited other magic guilds, natives (pre/post Shaper annexation), and the even small amounts of visiting Sholai. Control the islands in the inland sea, the underground (mostly), and parts of the border lands. Endgame: The Rebels are developing a new kind of Spawner, which will make Unbound continuosly. Loyalists want them all dead, and the Unbound specifications (which are needed for the Spawners) retrieved. The Rebels want you to gather ingredients and protect the Spawners as they're being made. The Trakovites want you to create the Spawners, and deliver the specifications to the Shapers. Rebels: Shapers are overwhelmed, eventual collapse of the Shaper Empire, and the Trakovites (everyone of them) Shapers: Terrestia seized back, rebels fall in last stand on the Ashen Isles, both Drakons and Drayks extinct, many Trakovites dead, but some spared, knowledge on how to make Drakons, Drayks, canisters, Spawners, and the Geneforge destroyed. Trakovites: War escalates, and eventually a new rebellion within a rebellion starts, destroying both sides from the inside. Knowledge about Shaping destroyed. Drakons rare, but not all dead.

I'd cut the most recent drayk and replace it with something else, preferably a Trall, Kyshakk, Eye, or Wingbolt. I'd go with the Kyshakk personally.

What point in the game are you in? What creations do you have currently? How long have you had your current creations?