Zeviz
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Everything posted by Zeviz
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A GIFTS PC would be too annoying and out of character, but A GIFTS joinable NPC could be an amusing Easter Egg. It would probably act like a Xian Skull, constantly bothering you with "You are cute" dialogues. It might also make "You are cute." a dialogue option when talking to any NPC, but that would probably be too much work for Jeff for a single joke.
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So would you recommend banning all research? The Shaper controls are already strong enough to cause resentment in population and rebellious tendencies in the cases you've mentioned. So if, as you suggest, these controls are fundamentally flawed, the only option is to completely ban new research and punish any experimentation by instant death. Somehow I doubt the viability of such an extreme solution.
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About difficulty, when I first loaded the game I wanted to see what the graphics looked like, so I took pre-made party, didn't get any equipment besides the sword you have to take, and headed to the fort to the east through nephil lands. I made it to the checkpoint, where I got swarmed. Later, after a little more experience with the game, I tried the same challenge and got to the fort, killing the evil Nephil chief in the process. (I had to return to town 3 times to heal/resurrect and there were several reloads involved.) So I guess the game is very easy, if the default party with no equipment can skip starting areas and quests and still survive. This is probably due to monster AI which causes monsters to attack one at a time, with archers wasting all their APs getting in range of my fighters. As for the game itself, I've figured out what the problem is for me: Everquest influence. Earlier SW games were influenced by older CRPGs that focused on story and game world, while A4 seems to take its inspiration from MMORPGs, with their focus on endless hack'n'slash combat. In A4, the lack of outdoor map combined with a constant stream of enemies that come at you one or two at a time make the whole game feel like one massive dungeon. And when I want to play a game that's one massive dungeon crawl, I prefer Diablo. So unless Jeff is trying to outdo Diablo and MMORPGs, I'd prefer if he stuck to making games with better stories/world and less hack'n'slash focus.
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Quote: Originally written by Bobby Pendragon: The message box tells you leveled to level 8 in Shot 1. If you are talking about "Debug: Tyrol alert level up to 8", that has nothing to do with your character level. It's a debugging message that probably has something to do with creature scripts or towns, depending on whether "Tyrol" is an NPC or an area name. Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: ... I have also revamped the secondary creations types to hopefully make them more interesting. For example, some creations will be unstable. They're much stronger, but they rapidly decay after they are created. I'm working on the 31st area today, btw. It's coming along. - Jeff Vogel Unstable creations sound like a fun new mechanic. Does "working on 31st area" mean that the game is more than 1/3 done?
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Cronocke, the main point of my post was that Spiderweb games are programmed and designed by a single person, so the more time he spends tweaking the engine, the less time he has to make a good story, as we saw with A4. Jeff probably could implement these skills and balance them so that they are useful, but not overpowered. However, the time he spends doing that is the time he doesn't spend improving other aspects of the game, and I think combat system is fine already, unlike some other important aspects. Quote: Originally written by Nezumi: Quote: Originally written by Zeviz: PS These ideas could work better in Geneforge, where the player controls a single character, rather than an entire party, so it's more important to have a good balance among the classes than to have a variety of roles within the party. Okay... I joined this forum _just_ to say this, although I'll probably stick around. Yes, Geneforge allows you to just let the computer control the rest of the party and only lead your main. This is generally a BAD IDEA. It's possible to fight much more effectively if you lead your entire party. You can more effectively execute strategies and divide or concentrate your force if you direct your creations. (Or recruitable PC companions, in 3) To clarify, I didn't mean to imply that I always let AI control my creations. What I meant was that in Geneforge, your character is a single person who leads his creations/allies, while in Avernum you control a group of up to 4 individuals, each of whom has all character attributes (as opposed to Geneforge creations/allies who have just 4 base attributes).
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Quote: Originally written by Enraged Slith: I do not think combat was the point of Avernum 4. This isn't Diablo 2. ... This is exactly my feeling. There already was too much focus on combat and graphics engine in A4. Continuing down that path would cause even more disappointment for people who enjoy the RP part of CRPGs. Quote: Originally written by Cronocke: ... Or such. A small handful of abilities that aren't really any better than the standard attack, but would have their uses in specific situations. This is exactly the problem: either these abilities would be so weak that they are a waste of time, or they'd be essential to winning, in which case fighters would just become mages with a different name. PS These ideas could work better in Geneforge, where the player controls a single character, rather than an entire party, so it's more important to have a good balance among the classes than to have a variety of roles within the party.
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Custom starting party not always best
Zeviz replied to Mike Montgomery's topic in Second Avernum Trilogy
Quote: Originally written by Mike Montgomery: Some of the walkthroughs and posts indicate that a custom starting party is always best. The logic here is that though the preconstructed classes would take more skill points to build, there are many things you would leave out in a custom build. ... If I am not mistaken, earlier Avernums imposed less of a skillpoint penalty on custom classes and included more random skills (like completely useless First Aid of earlier Avernums), so the advice to always go with custom might be a holdover from those games. -
Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: But would it make a good Avernum-style game? One possibility is, as *i pointed out, a game that is a combination of a large number of unrelated quests. Another option is to have a storyline focused primarily on character development (soldiers in training, travellers trying to get somewhere, etc.) Such a game would probably be very linear, but could still make a good BoE scenario. (I had a scenario like this planned before I lost interest in BoE again.)
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Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: "I'm picturing an upset parent, who probably thinks Avernum is against their religion." I've gotten that one too. ... - Jeff Vogel Do you have "most rediculous customer complaints" section somewhere on Ironycentral? Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: ... I seriously doubt, by the way, that there will be any spawners in Avernum 5. Heck, at this point, I'm not sure there will be spawners in Geneforge 4. Spawners are fine in Geneforge. It's the merging of the two game worlds that is bothering me. Things like Spawners, pylons and drakon graphics have their place. Just not in Avernum. An idea to make Geneforge spawners more tactically challenging could be to have some fragile spawners that quickly produce many weak creatures, so player would have to go for the spawner itself, while taking some damage from the summons. If there were many kinds of spawners with different toughness and summoning rates, players would have to worry when it makes sence to go for the spawner and when for the creatures it is generating.
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This exact question is being discussed in these threads: which Avernums to play: http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000555 A2 v. A4: http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000559 As for the question of storyline, most people think that A4 has the worst storyline of all Avernums.
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I'll add another vote to the unanimous "not even worth compairing" opinion. A2 is one of Jeff's best games (along with Nethergate and BoE), while A4 is one of the worst.
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First a warning: if you plan on playing A3 and don't want plot spoilers, avoid these boards until you are done with the game. The identity of main villain behind the plagues in A3 tends to show up randomly throughout the boards. As for the order in which to play the games, I suggest playing them in order both because the plots are a continuation of each other (revisiting old cities in A2 is more fun if you had seen them in A1), and because the engine evolved over time (so going from newer to older games might be frustrating). The earlier Avernum games arguably have much better atmosphere and stronger plot, but less sophisticated engine, so the experience will be different from A4. EDIT: I'll second Kel's suggestion to look at Exile (same plots as Avernum, but a much older engine), and especially BoE. You can find reviews of BoE scenarios here: http://p080.ezboard.com/fthelyceumfrm27
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Quote: Originally written by Dintiradan: Lost Nethexermumforgeland Core: You, an adventuring party comprised of Roman legionaries and Celtic warriors, stumble across a planar gateway. On the other side, you discover an entire nation of exiles living in caves. However, a shadowy force is altering the Exiles' genetics, causing their very appearance to change. To stop this conversion (or to aid it; the game has a multitude of different endings), you must journey deep into the core of the Exiles' homeland. There you must retrieve to Stone of Night, and make the choice of freeing or subduing their lost souls. -------------------- for clarity. lol Don't forget the game mechanics: The game uses primarily graphics from Homeland, with PC graphics being a choise between a Geneforge Shaper (for humans), an Exile cave lizard (for Sliths), or an Avernum Haaki (for Nephils). The PCs, in addition to their race, can choose culture with Romans specializing in combat skills and getting attack bonus v. Pylons, Demons and Snakes, while Celts specialize in magic and get a bonus v. Spawners, Goblins and Giant Snakes. There are also Shaping skills that can be unlocked by defeating Rentar Ihrno's ghost. There is also a side-quest to resurrect Erika, completion of which lets you take her into your party as an NPC. Another side quest involves constructing and using Geneforge.
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Aussieavernum, if you want that scenario idea to be more realistic, you could say that, instead of collapsing most of the caves, the quake cracked cave wall, opening a passage towards a new section of the cave system. (I suspect Jeff will do something like this for A5.) And a reason for food shortage could be a crop-killing mold whose spores were carried out of the new cave system (by wind, travellers, etc.) Finding a way to eliminate this mold could be a major quest in your scenario. Quote: Originally written by Ephesos: ... I really want this thread to die. Then don't post in it. If you don't want Blades to die, don't laugh off potential new designers every time they come up with an idea. Instead, tell them how to make it better.
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You can use a cheat code to take your party back to starting town: Hit Shift-D and enter "backtostart". It's usually a good idea to keep several different saves of the game to avoid this kind of problem.
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New Playable Race?
Zeviz replied to Mister Fox's topic in Avernum Trilogy (2000-2002 original versions)
I couldn't vote in this poll, because it's missing the "none of the above" option. Quote: Originally written by Noddy: Well, I already thought that those two races didn't belong in the straight Avernum games. Blades, perhaps, because who knows what situations the designer will put the player in. But not Avernum. Still, they're there, and I think it's probably more trouble than it's worth to take them out, since they're an established fact of the series now. I'd just prefer not to compound the problem even further by adding to it. Nephils, Sliths, and Vahnatai are one of the major things that distinguishes Exile/Avernum universe from generic RPGs where you wade through hordes of goblins/orcs with the help of elves and halflings. If we start removing races from games just because some people have dirty minds, we'd pretty soon end up with games containing only stick-figure drawings of generic humans. -
Quote: Originally written by Archmagus Micael: Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: I wouldn't say this really counts, though. It still counts. Trust me. Zeviz didn't say it had to be in the right context. - Archmagus Micael Yes I did. Quote: Originally written by Zeviz: Can anybody think of an example of an emperor who had willingly abdicated with no outside preassure just because somebody presented a better claim to the throne? ... However, the main reason I asked was general curiousity about abdications in history, so in that sence yours and SoT's posts contain exactly the kind of info I was looking for. EDIT: SoT, did the whole "respect for parent" thing work out in practice for Japanese emperors? Or was the emperor's position mostly ceremonial anyway? (In Russian Empire, emperors often completely reversed the policies of their predesessors. In one case the father was even deposed by a coup led by his son.)
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Quote: Originally written by Archmagus Micael: Quote: Originally written by Zeviz: No emperor in history willingly gave up his throne to a guy with a piece of paper. Um - abdication? - Archmagus Micael Can anybody think of an example of an emperor who had willingly abdicated with no outside preassure just because somebody presented a better claim to the throne? Most abdications I can think of were prompted by a choice of "either you take off that crown, or we'll take it off together with your head".
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Quote: Originally written by Aussieavernum: ...It was not an Empire official, he was a rebel mage pretending to be the heir to the throne. ... No emperor in history willingly gave up his throne to a guy with a piece of paper. The only way such a person could get a throne would be by leading a successful revolution against the emperor. PS The rest of your scenario sounds too similar to Avernum 3. Unless what you are saying about monster plagues are just a background history for a smaller scenario in which you defeat the evil emperor. Either way, if you haven't made any scenarios before, I'd suggest starting with something much smaller. Once you make a couple of good small scenarios you can start thinking of an epic of this magnitude.
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Character Creation Help
Zeviz replied to MrAndersonMan's topic in Avernum Trilogy (2000-2002 original versions)
Quote: Originally written by MrAndersonMan: Alright. Since I'm more familiar with the past games, it took me around 3 tries to get a team I liked. But I always ended up making some sort of error that made me restart. Can someone post an *ideal* or close-to-ideal team to make? It's possible to win the game with the default party. So don't worry so much about making "the perfect party" and just start playing. As long as you have at least 1 mage, at least 1 priest and at least 1 character good at killing stuff you'll do fine. -
Quote: Originally written by Archmagus Micael: Okay. You can get this new file you wanted uploaded Here . A quesiton - is this meant to work on a WIN computer, or only on MAC? Because the file I just uploaded crashed on winXP. - Archmagus Micael Do you have the .Net framework installed? And is it the latest version? If not, I assume that might be the reason it doesn't work for you.
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Quote: Originally written by Ephesos: Quote: Originally written by Bomber: What spycam??? He's kidding. I think I missed the context, but he's kidding. I think Salmon was replying to this: Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: ... And sometimes the customer is a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks that my game is spying on him. (Yes. It happened.) ...
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Quote: Originally written by Ephesos: Quote: Originally written by Thuryl: Man. Talking about the scenario like this almost makes me want to actually make the damn thing. Do it! You know you want to! I also would like to play this scenario. (Or pretty much any scenario you'll make, considering your past record.)
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Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: ... Sometimes people don't understand how personally I take their critiques. No matter how many people like Avernum 4, the number of people who didn't like the new direction makes me genuinely unhappy. But what can you do? Looking back, there are some small things I would have changed, but, in Avernum 4, I feel I wrote the game I had to. ... The drawback of having made great games in the past is the customers hold you to a higher standard. And the drawback of having loyal fans is that they have strong opinions on the game. Quote: Originally written by VCH: I wouldn't weigh the opinion of the board members that heavily. As with most games the people who actively participate in the community is small compared to the total number of people who play or have played a game. However, the people who participate in the community are the ones most likely to generate word-of-mouth publicity for the game. I've bought two most recent games because of good things I've heard about them first on other forums and then on their own forums. So alianating loyal customers isn't a very good policy. Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: ... As far as I can tell, the complaints from a couple of old timers amount to fanatical orneriness on their parts, and can't really be given any weight. ... Calling people "fanatical old-timers" isn't a good idea unless you want to be called a "drooling fanboy". And considering that, according to Ash's poll, G3 and A4 had the least number of people who registered and liked them, more than just "a couple of old-timers" have issues with these games and ignoring their complaints might not be good for Spidweb's bottom line. PS As for my opinion of A4, I'll post that in one of the half-dozen related threads, instead of side-tracking this one.
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Are Geneforge and Avernum related?
Zeviz replied to Dunbar42's topic in Avernum Trilogy (2000-2002 original versions)
Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Vahnatai have had Shapers since before Geneforge even existed. ... Vahnatai creationism? (There is a theory that all life in the world of Avernum was created by the Vahnatai.) To answer original question of the thread, there is no reasonable way to make a connection between the worlds of Avernum and Geneforge, because Avernum has its own long history with no mention of Shaper-type magic or of any creatures from Geneforge world. Neither does Geneforge have any mention of Avernum-type creatures. Trying to put Geneforge and Avernum into same world is like trying to put Star Wars and Star Trek into the same universe. There are just as many differencies in history, races, magic, etc. It could be done, but the results wouldn't be appealing to fans of either series.
