alhoon

Without reading what the others wrote: If you helped Moseh, you either give the papes to Greta or you're considered rebel enemy. If you killed Moseh, you either give the papers to Shapers or you're considered Shaper enemy.

As a note, with avoiding spoilers: In several cases, Faction quests are NOT what you expect them to be. The Shapers for example are too eager to sabotage one another. It's really worth trying them, even if you do not put them in the saves.

How dare you sir! I don't plan to land anywhere unless it's on the head of an invading force! VIVA LA RESISTANCE!

Certainly not the best copy paste, but gives you an idea: http://s660.photobucket.com/user/MasterAckrovan/media/maps.jpg.html

I have to thank you BTW. I'm showing to my sister episodes of you facing the Unbound to prove that when months ago she was listening me to suddenly shout "UNBOUND! Nooooo!" OR "Unbound! RUN! RUN! RUN" to my screen I had nothing to be ashamed of...

With Tier 4s, you won't. And if you could with some difficulty take an Unbound at episode 51, you could comfortably get one at episode 70... I saw you have some tinker equipment BTW. Keep it. And when you find leadership equipment, keep it too.

Man, that was a big enough post. Well, can't say I said anything important apart of saying that I think there was some artifact stuff in the Middle Shadow Road. And that you forgot to enchant the gloves. Oh, and another thing: Unbound aren't resistant to magic and Kyshaak can take the damage. Keep them away from the energy burst of an Unbound, blessed-protected-hasted-regenerating and you should be able to kill Unbound without casualties.

Let me start by saying that most winter-season series I watch have ended and most summer-season haven't started. So I go on a binge on your episodes Episode 45: Back to the fateful path I see... 11 episodes after learning why mention of the Unbound give shudders to many players to this day. I find the idea with the fast-pace nice, especially in that case (let's not pretend we didn't eagerly wait for you to be running from the Unbound again ), but I would suggest you don't rely too much to it in undiscovered areas. Liked the music too. The fight: That must be the weakest Unbound in the game... Not this atrocious area attack, needs two attacks to take down a Vlish... disappointing. Meeeeeeh... The Unbound killed some interesting and likeable NPCs that were hunging there. Although, truth be told you would LOVE THEM since they do help to defeat the Unbound. I found them at like lvl 40, at which time the Unbound missed 80% of the time. The part where you go to a low level area with 6 max-strength 22 level Vlish was ... entertaining. You went full Unbound on the poor Cryoras. And your math was off indeed but just a bit. The chance to miss 3 times in a row with a 75% chance to hit is about 1.6% About the Gerash-Kel... you have been warned what lies there. But, in case you haven't clear the place yet, I think there's artifact stuff there. Episode 46: See? That's a real Unbound. You're lucky most of your guys were behind a corner cause the area damage and curse effects stink. You probably have cleared that area by now, but if you don't: It's supposed to be a mid-level stealth area. By the end of the game you would be so powerful that you could walk in there without blessing and have your tier 5 creations wipe the Unbound out. As I've said in a post above, near the end game, I took down the whole Rebel force guarding their borders, including the 4 Unbound. Together. However I completely understand where you come from and why you see it as impossible and why you avoid areas that are rumored to maybe hold an Unbound. It's the widely recognised "Geneforge 5 Unbound fear syndrom". I'm 36 years old, but to this day if my mother tells me "eat all your food or the Unbound will come for you in the night!" I would. Not really trusting that the atrocious senses of the Unbound would keep them away from me, I was leaving creations for them to destroy as I ran away. As for the Western Shadow Road... I had a completely different approach to it, thanks to my rebel leanings. The fight in 11:40. While I don't really mind, it seemed an interesting fight to watch a bit more slowly. But I respect your choices anyway. As for the dying, I would suggest retreating BEHIND your creations as you did before. For running low on essence, may I suggest you use ice instead of the essence-heavy searer? Episode 47: Can't be 100% sure but I think there was artifact stuff there. Episode 48: The Middle Shadow Road is notoriously difficult. I treated it IIRC as a stealth area. It's easy to evade the monsters with the stone I think. Secret Lab: I never ever got a quest to save the prisoners found there. Which had their stories and all, so I guess it's a Shaper quest. As for the creations, later in the game when I returned there for a different quest I was able to calm them. About your "Astoria can't see there can't be peace": The Drakons are not the whole rebellion. Pyhroviass tells you so. Greta more or less told you saw when you met her I think. What do you think she was trying to talk the Drakons OUT of, when she said "let's hope the Drakons will see reason, there's a first time for everything"? I would dare say that the hard-core Shapers and the Drakons are blind. Astoria and Greta are not in my opinion. Meh... I see you retreated in the end. A pity. You could totally kill him with that Vlish army if you used some of those potions to heal. Episode 49: Kyshaak. Good. Now you can realize that you'll need 18+ intelligence by the end of the game. Make 4 of these beauties and start taking out the Unbound. Very good episode indeed. Not my favorite, but nice. And of course, I can't stop BEFORE I see you making an artifact. Episode 50: Eh... why didn't you enchant the gloves? The misty crystal was IMO a very good choice. And although you probably figured it by now: Having 2 max-strength Vlish instead of 1 Kyshaak is ... a waste of essence. Episode 51: Ouch... the Poddling play-ground or how it was called. One of the worst areas IMO. I hope you did fast-track this one with the near endless area-attacking debuffing critters. As far as Kyshaaks being better than Vlish... well, they're 4th tier creations, and have a base cost like x4. They are supposed to be better. With their huge health, you throw a regen on them, hide in a corner and wait till they kill your foes. Oh, That's where Balme was hiding... I will repeat that the shaper in the game could well end with tons of intelligence to be able to have a nice big army worth 900+ essence.

Well, so do the shapers and they don't eat people... Except of Moseh that is. He does.

I would like to second that. I grew uneasy when modern history and events was brought up in this otherwise friendly and welcoming forum. Since the game takes place in an Medieval-Renaissance-enlightment era, I think it would be best anyway to use examples from that era.

WHAT? Drakons eat people?

Well, all intros I've seen say they did. And they show really cute, small fyoras and lizard-like creatures in intro and ending pics.

OK, went back to GF5 but I didn't actually do a genocide. Instead I attacked the rebel force in the east, with the 4 Unbound. The loot I got was... underwhelming to say the least. I spent more money on stuff I used to win this battle than I earned.

FIRST THING FIRST: I make quite a few remarks about the quality of the recordings. This doesn't mean the quality is bad, I just offer it as a kind of "while it's good it could be improved" kind of thing. Don't get it as criticism because it's not. Episode 41: I... can't read the letters very well in that one at 720p. I could in previous episodes. There's also the usual occasional blurring of the screen but it's not too terrible. Not sure what's wrong or if anything is wrong for that matter. The discussion with Preva, that says she's not a rebel just wants to help Serviles but if Alwan finds her she will die in pain? That's one of the most important reasons I support rebels in a nutshell and while I wouldn't align with Alwan. Loved your comment with the guy that rents out mistreated creations, that you don't like that you have to be a "heartless bastard" to be on the shaper side. I actually find that realistic considering my opinion on the Shapers. About Benhold quest chain: I found it very interesting and rewarding. I don't know how far you are in it, nor I'll tell you where\how it ends of course, just mentioning that I liked it a lot. WAIIIT THERE: You never finished GF4?!? Buddy, you don't know what you're missing! How far did you reach? Both sides have very interesting battles there. Episode 42: The slight blur continues. Dinara, the crystal-making outsider shows us another prime example of servile abuse. I think if I find some time, I'll load my pre-finalle save in GF5 and go kill everyone in Perikalia to blow some steam. Yes, I know mass murdering those that don't agree with you is not a nice thing. But it's a game... I can pretend to be an Unbound for a bit. As a note, about what that blacksmith said about puresteel: I think there's a drayk that can work pure-steel. Things you missed cause you asked us to say: In the "beautiful park" in ~min 6... there's a guy calling you "Hey! Here quickly!" that you totally ignored... And if it's the meeting I think it is, it's kinda story-important. Not terribly, but enough to warrant going there to see the poor guy. Prison: Pepoy?! That's the name of the imprisoned Servile? I think I met that guy in GF3, Harmony island. I could be wrong though. Agent Gray and her creepy take on how she strips a sentient creature of free will gave me shudders. I'm definetely going there to kill everyone. Sage Pavyl, the brain-washed mage that tells you that even learning a single spell requires permission by Shapers: Another reason I hate the Shapers but if that was the only thing and the rebels were mass murdering people with Unbound, I would back the Shapers. As for the "look what happens when not everything is controlled by Shapers!" well, if they weren't as power-crazy the rebellion would have way less members. Episode 43: The occasional blur from other episodes is kinda more frequent in this one. ROTGROTH fight: Just mentioning that I used crystals heavily on the massed Rots. Sea caves: I actually think you carved through those because you were... 28th level. Episode 44: Wow... that Gyllaran is as strong as an Unbound. Well, at least in the beginning. And that's a sweet, sweet robe. I don't recall my equipment but that would come handy for at least 10 levels from yours.

well, that's why I said "so far" And to be sincere, you didn't actually have to answer since it makes you cross... Anyway, I always appreciate your info and perspective.

GF5, Unbound. Came up while I was fighting something (I was level 11-12 or something) and I didn't see the creepy ba... son-of-unidentified-father before he made an attack ... and wiped half my creations before I knew what hit them. I got spooked for a month, not just a moment. "Alhoon scares easy!" You may say. "Alhoon was careless!" You may say. "Alhoon was unlucky!" You may say. I am not alone. Oh, no. I am NOT alone. have shared my terrible, terrible fate. You listen the at 5.22 the haunted laugh of someone that learned what true desperation tastes like.

I don't remember anywhere in the games so far, to actually address that you can't make creations in battle while others can. In fact, the way Shaping is handled in intros and text is that it always takes time so it shouldn't be possible in battle. As for independent shaping... when I was fighting Shapers with "a lot" of creations I was given messages they were tired and low on essence. Shaila in GF4 would be such an example. Even the Monarch has his limits and he's reputed to be the most powerful (or amongst the most) of them all. It's just that the Monarch just releases his creations almost immediately. Other Shapers use those shaping vats that spew enemies to lower the essence cost or something.

Could you elaborate please? If it's not a spoiler for GF3?

Well, it's game balance Issue I think and not that the PC learns different shaping.

To set the record straight about GF4: I was wrong. The Shapers execute you if you go for the low-power Trakovite ending; when you don't really uphold your end of the bargain. In the Shaper ending... you're locked up and tested as Crowly promised you would. At least since I had few cannisters.

I agree that sabotaging isn't the same as betraying. But I was betraying people by earning their trust and then turning against them. Like doing a few quests for every faction only to sabotage them later.

In the weak Unbound trako ending, the rebels lose... In the shaper ending I haven't gone big in cannisters. Just Miranda and Alwan weren't there to vouch for me and I haven't helped much (although I didn't kill the infiltrators!) the shapers (i.e. I broke the barrier; not just Moseh, all of it. Alwan didn't trust me to go with them I never got the quest to go with them from him. Shapers were saying "You're lucky we don't arrest you"). And yeah, I didn't expect them to hug me like a hero. But that's not keeping their promise. Guardian Crowly remembered (I hope) our deal. And the deal was not "do everything" but "find what's going on in the North". In GF5... I betrayed a lot of people. Practically every faction requires you to sabotage the rest. Which includes betrayal. The way I killed Alwan made me feel ... dirty. (I won't say more because of spoilers) So, is there a script command to get rid of a creation without turning it rogue?

He was not far from the truth. I sent Monarch to them to continue his work harming them. As for the backstabbing... I don't know who ordered my execution in the Shaper ending or weak Unbound Trako-ending. On Aziraph he downright tells me that if I fail them again, he will kill me. I had to give them Monarch's papers or else. I really didn't want to. Greta was furious... At the time, I felt I may not get a good rebel ending because of that (and I was right, although in the 'original' ending I went 100-and-destroy-the-machines ending that ends with your execution but the Drakons are brought to heel by the rest of the rebellion). NOTE: I am not proud of everything I've done in GF3, 5 and ESPECIALLY 4. I still feel horrible about absorbing (i.e. murdering in cold blood) my loyal Drayk (sentient creature) cause I wanted to free up essence to make a drakon. I killed something I had with me for a long time, just cause it was convenient. I really wish there was a way to "Release" creations. Even if it was dialogue only in a place. Like "sure, we will take care of him\it for you!" and space empties. Actually, is there a script command for that? Like when the serviles you get with you in GF4 leave, or Greta\Alwan leave in GF3? I haven't made a Drayk, but as heck I don't want to have to absorb it again. Let the Shapers deal with that. (I was never against going Monarch; Crowly was right. I just didn't have the option )

We all know what they would be behind the mask. Changing the whole monster with something else... perhaps.

I totally agree about the lack of evil choices and I have to say that I sent Shaila to the Shapers. Killing her would be cruel. Perhaps I remember it wrong. At the time I was playing after having the Shaper monsters kill half my group of kids, I was very closed against the Shapers. Why I say playing GF games in order may have helped: I had no idea why the Shapers were so hell-bent to destroy me except to jealously protect their power. At the time, I didn't think of my small group of unarmed civilians as "potentional mutant death machines with a good chance to get mad"*. I was thinking of a small group of village kids that found the courage to stand up against an evil mage empire and demand a voice, finding in the geneforge the way to fight back the evil magocracy. Bought the rebel propaganda if you want; believed the bad I was being told about the Shapers and overlooking the good. I will play GF4 again in the future, now that I understand Shapers\Rebels better. But no, at that point (I didn't even know what an Agent was BTW), every Shaper seemed to me the evil mage lackey to the evil archmage. I haven't been deep enough yet into the game to see that there are good Shapers (including Miranda) and bad Rebels (including Garldring and Litalia). If it helps, my first impression of Miranda was the corruptor that wanted to seduce me to evil by promising lies about me being spared. Not the actual patriot that although she disagrees at a level with her bosses, is ready to go to a SUICIDE mission to stop the doomsday device of the enemy. My first impression of Guardian Crowley was the mindless-military-arm of the evil tyrrant, ready to throw babies to the fire if so ordered that actually tries (and fails) to sound better than he is in order to get a spy abomination (according to him) in the enemy camp and win more easily cause he's lazy and hypocritical and wants to go back to abusing serviles and exploiting humans as soon as possible. Not the actual military leader in a bloody civil war that is ready to break some eggs to make omelette if it means stopping the bloodshed. While I changed my opinion about Miranda, and about the time I met Alwan I've known that butt-hole or not, he was a patriot, I still believe Crowly is more of the first (oppressor that was lying to me) than the second. You say Crawley didn't hold it against you for the caravan. I don't believe it. I think Guardian Crawley would be the first offering to chop your head after your usefulness was over. Or would just give you to Moseh to be absorbed (Moseh was absorbing people his creations were bringing to him). While I don't think he was as immoral and hypocrite as Rawal (GF5), he was IMO between that and Alwan. While I disagree with Alwan's opinion and some of his methods he was true to his convictions. * I was so, so, angry when I learned that. I kinda rage-quit cause I've already used 1-2 dumb canisters that really weren't worth moving close to the limit. Then, later I found a "must-have" canister (the ones that improve shaping, I didn't give a dime about spells) and I was over the chapter limit and I was going berserk here and there. All because the rebels didn't bother to warn me.