alhoon

Taygen discovered cells comprise living things and that DNA controls how cells are formed! Well, madman or not, that was awesome bit of research Yes, I plan doing his finale eventually. Right now, I'm "meh" that his battle is very anti-climatic. When I got him alone in his castle by accident, I crushed him like a bug. In his throne, he was bring in rotgroths and had super-soldiers. He was also casting an area spell that did tons of damage. Now? Now he summoned some worthless slugs and throwing just essence orbs. I'm glad he survived. I enjoyed his castle very much.

I honorlessly poisoned Alwan, the one enemy I respected most. In any case, I went to Taygen's castle hunting him. O_O I found awesome machinery there. I don't know what "Purity Agent" is or how it works, but from what I've learned so far from people (including Rawal) it has to do with a disease\catastrophy to eradicate creations. Fine work... Taygen could put the Drakons to shame with his shaping work. Seems more impressive than the Unbound and more effective. And equally mad.

For Ghaldring ending, I killed Astoria by blowing her up with her pylons. It was the hardest for me to go against since I like her, so I killed her first. Then I attacked Taygen and in 3 battles now, I haven't managed to keep him bottled up so I can kill him THERE and not fight him in his keep. I'll keep trying. He's very easy all things considered. I expected him to put up a greater fight. EDIT: after many repeats I found out he has "plot protection". He can't be killed there. I do have to travel to his castle and attack him. Never set foot there to not make him angry before hand. Alas... So, I go for Alwan now. There's a way, the smart way to kill him with poison. After 5 hours of battle through Zephyr Oasis, I'll go for that, but Alwan deserves a Guardian's death.

I did the Rawal ending first. By far the easiest. The moment I went to Rawal for my last reward before moving to help the rebels, he offered me "one final task" ... that led to the finale. One question: We lost. Badly. Within 2 years according to the finalle Drakons wipe out the council, ravage Shaper lands, attack and bring us down with relative ease. Is it always so, or if I was pro-shaper the council could have won? I realize why people say this finalle is not a real finalle. I don't necessarily agree, but I can understand why it's considered "meh"

? I found just one Crystal in Bennhold's fort and I don't know that island. I haven't gone to some areas that I didn't have a reason to go, or that they were faction quests. Thank you for your answers. So... I am torn between following Litalia, just because. Following Astoria cause she's the only one that makes sense. And finally following Ghalrding to kill Rawal and shaper Taygen. Then do Alwan's to see what happens. And Rawal's to see what he plans to do with those cannisters and the geneforge.

Well, you're making some compeling arguments. However, I would like to say that a shaper in his or her 16 in the academy wouldn't be taught any magic at all probably for a couple of years. Very rudimentary training in shaping could well start in the 3rd year, when the academy student has shown loyalty and promise. And as we know from Geneforge 5, you finish the academy, the menial lab-hand period and then after a successful test you learn some kiiinda advanced shaper magic (clawbugs, "2nd tier" spells etc) My opinion diverts from yours, in that you consider entering the academy as joining up and being equivalent to boot camp or joining the military etc. Personally I think that happens AFTER you finish the academy. I.e. I don't consider the academy the equivalent of entering boot camp; I consider the last year of the academy equivalent to entering boot camp. What I mean is that when Litalia attacked the academy in GF3, she didn't attack rookies and officer cadets. She attacked schoolkids that could not defend themselves. The attack on the academy is IMO an act of terror, equivalent of attacking a military highschool Sure about-to-graduate agents had the most basic battle magic and about-to-graduate shapers could (barely) make fyoras. That doesn't bring them to the level of people finishing basic training; far from it. That's why I think that the academy is equivalent of joining a military high-school instead of joining an officer's academy. As such the age of "joining the military and even then as a probationary member" in Shaper society is ... about 20 when you finish the academy. As a note, don't take my arguments as competitive or something; I enjoy the discussion and value your opinion. If anything, I like how the world of Geneforge can sustain such discussions. ANOTHER THING: I killed Bennhold (I wish there was a Bandit finale ). I am 45 level. I believe I am at the point now that I have to do quests that "close up" factions (like killing Platano). Am I correct in that assumption? Is there more that I have missed in the game? What level should I be more or less when I start the "join faction and end the game" part? (I have 4 creations usually but I make expendable extras in some areas and have them kill everything while I chill in a corner) The seer says that I make shapers nervous so far. And I have to do some rebel actions, like free some serviles etc. If Shapers get too angry, would I be attacked at the cities and forts outright? Just in Alwan's and Taygen's? Depends on the location? Are the Trakovites a faction of their own? Or Can I join another and do stuff for Litalia on the side?

Well, part of those problems could be mitigated by alchemy and perhaps some magic. Also, keep in mind that the Shapers seem to be in a late-medieval\early-renaissance society. Pages started their training far younger than 16 and squires were usually teens running around in chain mail. Knighthood at 16 was not unheard of even if it was as you correctly said, sub-optimal. So if there were cases that squires turned to knights at 16, or apprentice craftsmen to regular craftsmen etc, starting the training at that age doesn't seem to me that far fetched. What I mean is that even if according to what we know now and the way we think now 16 seems too early to start... doesn't mean the shapers thought that way and shared the same opinion.

Thanks. I think that's a reasonable answer and it certainly fits the place. Whether it's the only reason or not, it certainly is an important reason. When Alwan is holding the line literally, sending people to die over easily accessible by sea failed colonies in a desert is a waste. Even Taygen admits his place is low priority.

So far, I find Unbound EVERYWHERE in the Dera Reaches. Is there an explanation on how there are so many so far from the Drakon fortress? Don't tell me please, just tell me "yes and you'll find later" or "no, it's because of the assumed success in the first attack". The shapers from what I've seen have more or less abandoned Dera Reaches to Taygen's camps and inefficiency as he makes and remakes creations. They hold the town, the fortified Eastern zones ... and that is it so far. Everything else is packed with rogues and Unbound. I even found an Unbound kept in seclusion by Cryo-drayks, feeding him lots of stuff. I killed the Drayks aaaand... the Unbound started running around. He was close the gate to one of the concentration camps for creations that had NOTHING to save them from the Unbound except of bound creations. Even a couple of the Cryodrayks could take that place down. And the Shapers had the wondrous idea to make a pylon-field outside their city that stops everything except Unbound. So the place is literally crawling with the things. Inside pylons so I can't get everywhere. Thankfully my creations ignore those pylons too.

Well, if we assume that the academy starts at 16 instead of 18, and that it's 4 years because it includes the necessary brainwashing (which is easier done in younger ages), Alwan would be 19-20 in the start of GF3. Now if we assume that after the academy, squire-like training along with the stuff you mentioned after the end of the academy, the period of "shaper prospect" as called in GF5, it could take a few years of menial jobs along with training under a full guardian that has 3-4 prospectives. Probably at that time they narrow down their training, focusing more in one area. That could be 3-4 years or so. However, a post-academy guardian-in-training, could see some action. So for Alwan the period was probably cut down and he was serving his "post-academy" training under guardians on the field cause of his actions in GF3. There he could have been distinguished, progressed to full Guardian within 1-2 years of such service and then... serving as a guardian and rising through the ranks in the 7-8 years that follow till GF4 starts.

According to the description in GF5, he is young. So was Greta in GF4 and GF5. According to his story as told by him and as told by others (his yesmen but also Greta) he's young and after GF3 he more or less joined the Shaper army and rose in ranks. There's also another young Guardian, very young, leading a fort in GF5. Hence I don't think Guardians go to all these "Extra" studies. Probably serving as well as training. Like squires did or a similar place. I.e. while Shapers may spend years after academy in menial tasks and then advanced training, I think that for Guardians it is academy, service\training (like squires) for a couple of years and then at your 21-22 you are a low-rank Guardian. Alwan during the special circumstances, and having proven his loyalty probably skipped part of that. As for Litalia, she's insane and she has shaped and de-shaped herself. So pinning her age is not possible on appearances and her memory and reliability is low. From the into of GF5, the rebellion is at its 10th-11th year. Later we learn that the Unbound are around for about 3-4 years. As such, by the intro and narrative, GF5 should be 11-12 years after the start of GF3 and 10-11 after its end and 3-4 years after GF4 end.

Just set foot in Dera Reaches. The cannister madness returned but I managed to hold it off. I see, right away, that Taygen's faction is not for me. I met some serviles, beaten every day for being serviles. It will be quite hard I guess to raise my standing with shapers (Shaky as it is right now) in this place. In the Oasis, everyone gives me grief about my creations. Taygen's consort though, seemed nice. Taygen himself, while radical, doesn't seem hateable either. I don't like his laws or mostly, how they are enforced, but so far he's like a weird old grand-pa. For the time, I prefer him from Alwan and he's miles ahead of Rawal. However, as far as shapers go, I would consider Taygen a borderline shaper; not for the consort but for his views on creations. I believe after the war ended and things settled down, he would be considered heretic and dangerous and would be disciplined by the rest of the shapers. So... how are Trakovites hunted down for their dangerous ideas but "Taygenites" are just frowned upon? Because Taygen is a councilor and nobody wants to risk opening another front yet.

I don't think I would need something so high. I'm at level 44 and I would bunker down in the essence pool and start going Moseh, sending out high level Drayks boosted by my items that raise their stats. It would take some time, but I would probably clear up the "cannon fodder". And even without "cheat-making dozens of creations by the essence pool", I test-attacked Alwan's fort at my level. It was suprisingly easy, even when my 4 creations were surrounded by 12+ guards and serviles. I didn't play the whole thing cause I just did it to see how it goes, but I could kill 2 guards per round. And if I decided to really go crazy, I would have made a couple more creations to soak attacks. But I agree. Why it had to be THAT fort and not the one with the snobbish guardian and shaper?

If Vener (a captive in Alwan's castle) is to be believed, Rawal saved my character's ... life so be it. The way Vener describes me, with skin completely like wax, glowing eyes, face shifting all the time, completely lost in madness... that's worse than Litalia or Shaila (the lifecrafter gone mad in GF4). It reinforced my decision to NOT partake in cannisters any more. (I have already used like 8-9. I stole lots from Gazaki Uss. A very powerful spell and all level 5 creations. I walk around with a Drakon, a Gazer, a Wartrall and my trusty Cryora as a mascot) Also, I completed the Secret Access Road quest for the Drakons... and next time I passed by fort Rockfall it has already fallen. A pity. I liked the budding romance between the commander and the pretty merchant Felicia there. I was sorry for two things. First is that I didn't take the fort down myself and second for the death of those two. Let's hope that they survived although I consider it unlikely. QUESTION: How can I access the forge in there? The lock is still closed and I can't find a way to open it. Should I go aaaaall the way up to enchant my stuff?

A drakon gave me a quest to kill... Litalia. And not tell Ghalding cause he will kill us. According to the drakon labmaster, when she told Ghalding about Litalia being a "Traitor" he was so enraged that he nearly killed her.

I had the same question and I was told it makes a very minor difference. You may go canister-mad on a single encounter I am told. Yet in several discussions I am told that I have yet enough control (I don't consume many canisters) but it's not like it makes a difference.

Many good times in those games (GF4 and halfway GF5) that I've played. What springs to mind is the following: GF4, being called a freak for having been changed in order to throw a small bolt of fire and able to shape Fyoras and a couple more things by someone who: Is kept alive by essence alone as he is nailed to the floor by large crystals and supporting machinery and draws out the lives of captives to feed his power. Yes, that guy called me a freak because I had touched the geneforge and 3-4 cannisters. Also, he told me that I'm an abomination that shouldn't be allowed to exist because of my illegally and unethically way to gain power. That from the guy that turns sucks the life out of people, including his own faction when they came to bring him to sanity in order to gain more power. Another memorable scene was when, in GF5, I discovered who was the leader of the Trakovites! (I won't say it because it's a spoiler) And another one, kinda sad one, was in GF4 when I decided to absorb my trusty drayk, that we have been together through a lot, good and bad... because I could now make Drakons and needed to free up the essence. Also, unlike other creations in my employ (wingbolt, Kashyyk) Drayks I've met were always sentient with a strong personality. So, I had to kill a trusty companion just because it was convenient. And I did. I felt so... shaper at that time.

I Went Moseh on some Kyshaaks SE from Perikalia. I made 3 plated clawbugs with so much dex (thanks to my items and boost) that the Kyshaaks have 0% chance to hit. I have them with 0 int, so I sit by the corner of the zone and press end turn while my clawbugs destroy EVERYTHING unhindered. It feels so ... shaper right now. Moseh (without being nailed to a machine or drawing life from serviles) for the win!

She's not reliable source about anything except being totally dedicated to a cause, kill, kill, kill... and abandoning it after a time. Shaper, she massacred tons of Drakons and Drayks. Rebel, she attacked a school and helped create the Unbound. Trakovite (with tons of creations, mind you) and already asked me to do an assassination for starters. I love her I may go Trakovite after all (I know I will at some point; I plan to go as far as possible unaligned and then try varous factions)

LITALIA IS TRAKOVITE NOW! ! ! She gave me the usual "chilling talk" that I have come to expect from her. Hints on terrorism. Trakovites fighting back. That's the same Litalia that in GF4 wanted the Trakovite Drayk, bless be his hide for telling me how to stop the Unbound without dooming the rebellion, dead AT ALL COSTS. That had given orders for Trakovites to be killed among the rebel lands on sight. That she was shaping herself to power and then shaping herself back to humanity... That's the same Litalia that I tried to convince OUT of building the Unbound and was losing influence with the Rebels as she was trying to convince me that the Unbound are absolutely needed and she is 100% behind them. We're not talking GF4 Greta's "well, I don't like it but we have no alternative" we're talking bat-crazy hag being 100% behind the plan to unleash the Unbound. And now, Litalia tells me how she was disgusted by the Unbound and how she fears her friend, cowarrior, other-hand-of-the-rebellion Ghaldring has shaped out his sanity for power. Also, for a Trakovite haven, there's a heck of a lot Kashyyks, Tralls and wingbolts. And she admits that she will shape to protect the trakovites. One shaper is an army. And Litalia is powerful, tactical, intelligent, zealot and insane. Trakovites are more than a nuisance or they will be soon under her. She brought the rebellion up and along with a rogue drakon, the shaper empire to its knees. And now she starts again. Strong speech by her. She seems to really care for Ghaldring... but I'm not sure she won't ask me to kill him (don't tell me please). She's bat-crazy. And yet, some of the Trakovite creations say the right thing: "Drakons are turning to shapers". Now I am, again, torn between Astoria, Litalia and Drakons. Litalia out of loyalty from GF4. And for opposing (finally) Ghaldring. And because you told me that Trakovite path is moderate. What a glorious, glorious game series to make me ponder for hours which of those imaginary (but deeply developed) NPCs I will fall behind. To forge personal loyalty with, to want to know their stories deeper. Hadn't have this much fun with an RPG for years; I've read books that seem to have less story to say than these games. BTW, Litalia told me that I have the power to control the cannister madness, or that I have learned to do it. NOTE: I'm 95% sure that GF5 starts 10 years after the rebellion began and 4 years after the Unbound were unleashed. In her story, Litalia made it sound as if she and her buddy Ghaldring were mass-shaping for years before the attack on the school, I would say GF3 is 7-8 years after GF2. So I think we're like 18-19 years after GF2... but if Drakons were around for longer then it's hard to pin it down. NOTE2: Both Litalia and the narrative hint we have been enemies in the past with her.

I found an old Drakon in a crypt, very old apparently, one of the first created. He's against cannister mass consumption (and he told me to do the same) and accused Ghaldring of being shaper-wannabe. My question is... how long ago were the events of GF2? In the beginning of the game, we're 10 years or so in the rebellion. How can a drakon be "very old" already? I thought we were like 20-30 years from GF2

I found it in this forum, this link http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/21737-geneforge-graphics-enhancement/

Hi! Welcome here. I'm new myself. Good luck to your project. May I suggest you use the mod for Geneforge that updates the graphics?

QUESTION: If I attack Alwan's forts (for the XP and loot, I don't mind the people there) do I go Auto-rebel? It makes kinda 100% sense for everyone to consider you an enemy of the Shapers if you go berserk and take down a whole fort... but, I have to ask just in case I can soar up some nice XP.

I haven't played G1 and G2, but from what I heard in GF4 and in Penta, the awakened serviles were all about "we are sentient creatures, we can coexist with the shapers if they let us"... like Penta does. The very existance of Penta is a testament to what I think awakened work for, although the serviles there think that one day or another a Shaper will come by and kill them all. I also haven't played GF3 (more than a few mins that is), but in GF4 the character, while important enough to be there, is not the one making the plans AT ALL. They are made by zealots and fanatics. Alwan plans to destroy every last rebel. Drakons ignore everyone and decide by themselves to kill every last shaper. You are left with a switch. You either doom the rebellion or doom the shapers with Trakovite option (a single batch of Unbound) being the most moderate. I wish there was a more moderate option; something like convincing the Drakons to create batches of 50 Unbound instead of 100, that would wither and die within 3-4 weeks, instead of having a lifespan of years. Back to GF5, I am conflicted between going for Astoria and going for the rebels. I want to kill Rawal (haven't met shaper Taygen the mad yet) but I don't want the Drakons to win; they will just become as bad as the shapers. I was also thinking about my, kinda naive, "let's kill X councilor real quick cause I really think he's bad for the world, but I'll side with Astoria" Agent Astoria (or any councilor) may want some of their rivals out. I doubt that includes "Dead". Even if it does mean they prefered some of them dead... what about the hundreds of other shapers? To kill Rawal for the indignities he brought on me, I'll have to cleave through his (innocent) guards and assistants. Then, word that "the treacherous freak in Rawal's employ killed him!" would spread like wildfire! It's not that shapers need a lot of convincing to turn on me. No councilor, even those that agreed with the act, would be even able to stop his or her guards from attacking me. If anyone tried, he or she would be branded rebel\traitor. And again, it's not that the shapers are hard to convince to call others traitors (i.e. Astoria).