alhoon

Oh, I did! [Assume an emoticon of an angry looking drayk carrying a torch] 1. I mostly disagree with some of your points. First, I do agree the Shapers delude themselves by thinking themselves the Greatest good. I also agree on their non-desire to rule. In fact, we meet an Agent in GF4 (or is it GF5) that is very annoyed that she has to hear complains from people and actually rule. Then I partially (and not completely) disagree with other parts of this thesis. I disagree on the taxation part; we do see that, especially in Drypeak. People are effectively serfs, tied to the land to support a colony that is on purpose doing bad. Geneforge 3 also has the swamp farmers that were getting sick in the swamp gathering things for Shapers to do their research. Geneforge 4 has the wartime production that is taking its toll on the Common. Etc. "And if they want to pursue magic, even Shaping, there are non-exclusive avenues for that, until your own (lack of) skill or (in)competence disqualifies you." This is also wrong. There is a miniscule chance you would be allowed to be a Shaper and the reason to be disqualified is lack of Loyalty. The common pursue magic - to the point the Shapers allow them. We see that in later games where a loyal mage is refused further magic knowledge. I do agree that Shapers are not materialistic; they do have bigger homes and luxuries but they are not like the nobility of the renaissance with the huge castles and tons of servants. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is not unique for a ruling caste. Theocratic leaders very often are like that. The ambition of the Shapers is not to have a huge house and live in obscene luxury. Simply put there is less "income inequality" than you saw in feudalism or oligarchies but that doesn't apply just to the Shapers. Aaaaaaaaaaaaand... I need to go. But I plan to return to the later parts.

yeap, I read that story. But I assumed SOME Obeyers would exist along the Awakened. Me too!!! I couldn't tell her the truth! I let them waste what precious resources they have in thinking that this is important because there's not a neutral way, of "Ohh, how great! You did very well. Now, as a Shaper I will quickly peruse those very precious notes you kept, and decide what is too dangerous to be kept, what is outdated and what you should keep and preserve. Here is a cookie!" Then, I would burn most of the crap, but leave 3-4 boxes of stuff so she keeps feeling important. I would tell her how much better things are now for me the Shaper because of the accurate numbers of potatoes we brought from the mainland 142 years ago and that their vigil will help bring peace to the Island, but unfortunately, some things would need to burn.

yes, but at one point you run out of slots. Since I am not at that level, instead of buying up Fire Shaping to give my creations +1 level, I bought Mastery so I can afford another drakon.

BTW, I just noticed: where are the obeyers in GF2? (O-GF2 or GF2-I) ? I don't mean the servants, I mean fully smart and aware Serviles that agree with the Shapers that they should remain enslaved. You know, the biggest Servile faction of GF1-M, where we're told that more than half the Serviles in Sucia are Obeyers. First time I played GF2, I hadn't played GF1 so I didn't know of the obeyers. Now I go around and I talk to Serviles that are foolish and don't know better. Not Shapers that choose to be "Servants" and are even ready to kill other Serviles over this. I understand that with the Shapers around, most Obeyers would be dead - as they were still considered rogues. But in GF1-M, there were a couple of Obeyers that were Awakened and changed their mind. I have seen just one "Obeying-leaning Awakened" that when you talk to him and ask something he (or she? I don't remember) goes "Yes Shaper, I will Obey." The ones that are happy to see you and run to you are those that are cornered in mines or swamps by a dozen Rogues, about to die. And I have not seen a single Servant Servile that is actually smart, able to talk properly and is willingly a Servant (i.e. an Obeyer).

Will the Nice lady be angry with me for being an Awakened? Also, that nice lady will probably die when I purge every last Barzhite that draws breath. So, I will kindly take her restoration spores to help me butcher her and her friends.

Wine? Can I make those, or do I need an alchemist? like the person Slawbug mentioned? Also, where can I find her? I hope she is not a Servant...

I found the tomb of Rydell in Ellirah's tomb. Wasn't he the boss of the Obeyers in GF1-M? Did he come to light after the Shapers purged them all? From what I remember from my discussions with Rydell - and the horrible HORRIBLE book he had, Rydell would simply accept death, if the Shapers said so. The book he had, I still remember, had something like his deepest and most "selfish" wish is for a Shaper to tell him he has done well. That was it: No money, power, comfort. Nope. A Shaper to pat him on the head and tell him "good boy" as if he was a dog. Thus, I am very surprised to see his tomb as "Came to wisdom too late". I simply didn't expect him to ever do. Khobar died... in the "long March". 😢I liked Khobar. Dreet... probably was someone I should remember. I don't. I have also encountered Eko Blade and the Obeyer that was in charge of preserving the worthless notes in Sucia. Obviously, Pinner is in GF2-I too. Anyone else?

O_O And I have been selling ALL my healing spores.

Raw adaptable spores: Are they needed for anything after the Servile hermit tells you about the shield he can make for you? He told me other Alchemists may want them and they are pretty expensive... Also, do thorn bushes and spore bushes ever replenish?

I think that was the ending more close to what we learn in GF3.

On the Takers vs All Shapers: It is apparently not always so: I think these were around in the O-GF2 too. Anyway. - The Awakened didn't notice a bunch of Takers setting up camp next to their town. Which I can't 100% blame the Awakened, considering where this camp is, but on the other hand, they are trying to stop the Takers from burning Troia to the ground so ... it is great negligence anyway (Also, as for the Takers don't attack Awakened; this is like the 3rd group of Takers I found besieging Troia, and I haven't gone to the fort nearby then, nor I count the brigands that poor Eko Blade was running with. The ones with the plan to bring a bunch of Infernals to purge the world from my kind.) Eko was a Taker. I liked Eko. But I think he counts as "ex-Taker" in this case; he still wants to fight the Shapers but he turned to something ... different than geneforge and all. I do not blame him, mind you. It is insanely risky to consort with those Infernals, obviously, but is it less risky than a geneforge? I don't know. The Takers seek power to stop the Shapers, and Shapers fear the Infernals. And for a very good reason from the Infernal I saw... - The Takers do not attack you on sight. That was O_O surprise for me. I remember cutting through an army of Takers till I managed to speak to one. These Takers are actually willing to talk to a Shaper instead of Take their Free. And mind you, a Shaper which they (rightfully) assume is an Awakened. Even when I lie to them that I am a Taker but don't have that token, they are still not attacking me, just not letting me... in their tiny camp. Honestly, those are "rogue" Takers by Taker standards. They claim the name, they don't hold the conviction. They are brigands, plain and simple, that used to be Takers. And yet... they don't attack me. I have leadership 7. I told them to back off, they didn't but they still didn't attack me, when I showed by "True Colors" of being an evil Shaper that would threaten Creations. Cowardice? Perhaps. But these are "the moderate Takers" I was talking about.

Is Queen's Wish 3 the next game to be made after GF2-I?

Isn't a very old Shaper in Geneforge 4, in the Shaper camp? Where you can confuse that old lady to Shape you for a +1 spellcraft, by basically telling her it is not really shaping but "unlocking potential"? Khyrrik would probably let her be. And throwing her to the Ashen Isles to do menial work like supervising the growth of plants and batons/mines as a punishment for her running away would be fitting. We should learn to make real Vlish from her. Not the ones we have here, the real Vlish of GF3-era. The real Vlish should be extremely useful for their essence cost. I have a Drakon and 2 Drayks in my party, I am 12th level and I still pause when I see Vlish and check their level and approach carefully. It is ingrained in me now after GF3-5 and the massacre of the Vlish fields outside the Obeyer Village in Mutagen.

Meh, now I feel bad for brutally killing him...

That is what Sharon thinks, at least. We can't be sure that the Council would kill her for running away. Lying Zackary the Deceiver, Shanti and other Shapers are more sympathetic to Sharon. Shanti would rat Sharon out, but it seems to be no animosity or malice there. And while the Shapers are still in absolute control in GF2, by GF3, I doubt the Shaper Council would come down on Sharon like a wall of bricks. They would tell her that "in the old days" she would be severely punished but she would probably get away with a slap in the hand and a demotion - as long as she returned to work.

Rebel Shaper: Lifecrafter Taker Shaper: Lifecrafter Trajkovite Shaper: Mage that could, theoretically Shape. Disloyal Shaper: Shaper We could argue terminology and splitting hairs all day. The point I think we try to raise is "do you understand what we mean, not the Shaper Council, not the Takers" mean? I think what "neutral Shaper" or "Ex-Shaper" means in the context of this discussion is "Someone that was once trained by the Shapers, that can Shape but is not-aligned to the Shaper council any more but has not joined the Rebels either." Neutral may not be the right term, but it is easier to write than the entire sentence.

Ah, I see. For us, you don't graduate until you finish the Practicum and defend the thesis you write about it. We call it "Diploma Thesis" but it is not just the thesis, you also have to do a few months of work (similar to an intern) while supervised and guided by a Supervisor. That's before you can graduate and it feels very much what the PC is going through. GF2 PC is also called "Apprentice" by everyone that knows, which to me seems like "under-grad" GF1 PC had finished his or her studies and was on his way to start the practical work of his thesis. For my Diploma thesis, back when I was an undergrad, I was went to a small remote island to gather some data with a GPS (back before they were on phones etc) so I could use that data to geolocate aerial photos (back before the drones). GF3 PC is at his senior year IIRC. Not yet ready. Considering he is out of his apprentiship and you would theoretically be out of yours in a few months, I would say probably 6 months to a year ahead of you. I would say he is even before the "hasn't been picked up" part and more in the immediate-after-graduation dilemma of "Where do I apply for a job or M.Sc?" And from our students, I can tell you that this may take several months.

No, Brodus was absolutely sane. Was Eko Blade in Mutagen perhaps? Perhaps I remember him from there.

I am in the bandit cave, of the Thee. I see... Eko Blade as auto-hostile. For the life of me, I thought that I have talked with Eko Blade in the past.

Yeap. You don't have to just crush the budding, tender, reluctant peace-dealings between Astoria and the Rebellion, or to trash the food production with insanely destructive and also dangerous pests. You also have to stomp Astoria's spirit under your blood-soaked boots. And the missions get worse. Litalia's Trakovites are the worst kind of Terrorists that I have seen in Geneforge, and I include shaping the Unbound there. A quick reminder that Litalia was gunning to kill Trakovites in GF4, when the other Rebels thought they were not a priority and they should be left alone for the time.

Welcome to the Takers, brother.

That's not an undergrad; that's a post-grad student you are describing. You are an undergrad as a wide-eyed apprentice that knows very little aside of what he needs to start Shaping, undergoing his thesis defense under Shanti. It just so happens that your "Thesis Defense" means you have to literally defend your stance, with a bunch of Tier-4 creations. The "Opponent" isn't asking questions, it's three to four different armies going against you.

Not true. The Takers create "people with the power to create and enslave creations". Through the Geneforge. Lifecrafters are "people with the power to create and enslave creations" they just choose not to.

Tyallea requires orders from Lying Zackary the Deceiver before she opens up to teach you everything on the menu. I haven't met the other too.

The Rebels are closer to the Takers, they are not the Takers. The Rebellion has many factions. The Takers being one of them. The Drakon nationalists you talk about are not bona-fide Takers. The Takers are about defeating the Shapers for revenge/justice or for their right to survive.