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Lindwyrm

What will happen after Avernum 3 Ruined World?

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Hello everybody, 

 

I just wondered if you already know what Jeff is planning to do after the iPad release of the Avernum 3 remake.. or generally asked: where do you get your informations? is there a direct information flow from Jeff to the forums staff? 

 

Since I'm a macOS user, I really appreciate the remakes of the older series :)

 

Following Wikipedia, Blades of Avernum is nearly 14 years old and there are still fans creating scenarios for it.. I strongly believe, that a good game benefits from an extensive and powerful editor. LoL and all of the other clones originated from a mod of Warcraft 3. I haven't played it yet, but I think there are countless fan made extensions for Skyrim. What I'd like to say is that there's an incredible potential in this community, and I really hope that Jeff is considering a new Blades of ... in the near future. 

 

What are your thoughts about this topic? :)

Edited by Lindwyrm

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The last time this was asked with links to where to look for Jeff's thoughts on the matter:

 

Upcoming games

 

Hopefully the new game idea will be great. At least for the Geneforge gamers they will see the remakes starting in a few years. I don't think he's posted in the usual places anything new.

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Yeah, don't hold your breath on another Blades, IIRC they didn't work too well and he's gone off those.

 

A good game benefits from a good editor (and a good modding community, that's not a given), but I don't know how it helps sales of the game, rather than replayability (which isn't quite the word).

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From questions and answers session:

 

We're making entirely new IP. New game system, new graphics, new world, new story. I hope (no promises) to do a Kickstarter early this summer with a full announcement.

 

It will still be a low-budget, turn-based, icon art fantasy RPG with a rich story. If you are expecting fancy tech, shiny 3-D, or big budget, nope. We're still us. Within those bounds, it is different from anything we've done before, and I'm very excited about it.

 

 We will remaster the Geneforge games, starting in 18 months or so. The story and gameplay will be mostly the same, but I have a lot of cool ideas for the creation system.

 

I will be giving the Geneforge engine a lot of tweaks to make gameplay more varied and interesting. I was never happy with how leveling up and training creations worked. I want players to feel free to change their creations around to match given situations and not be stuck with a few fixed creations the whole game.

I want you to be able to customize your creations in more satisfying and significant ways.

 

The base storyline and the main elements of the game that people loves will stay the same.

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Apparently, Avernum 4-6 are not going to be remastered soon:

 

"Geneforge needs remastering BADLY.

We may remaster Avernum 4-6, but it won't be for a long time."

Edited by Alex

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A Revised Blades of Avernum that uses the Avernum 3: Ruined World engine.
Blades of Exile came from Exile 3, Blades of Avernum came from Avernum 3 and a Revised Blades of Avernum (RBoA) could come from Avernum 3: Ruined World.

This could be done relatively quickly, it requires no new scenarios or game writing. It simply requires removing the A3-specific features that are hard-coded. It also requires provision for many scenarios.

Import Blades of Exile scenario will need to be a separate function from Import Blades of Avernum scenario. Porting will probably be the most involved feature...
Some porting had to be done to create A3RW, size Small and Medium towns for example.

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I appreciate that Jeff can see the problem in shaping incentivizing rushing to the end-game creation types as fast as possible and then leveling them up. The easy solution is to just not have creations gain experience and have their stats solely depend on the shaper's stats, but we will eventually see!

 

—Alorael, who thinks Jeff couldn't have been any clearer about not doing any more Blades work, ever, at all. Which doesn't mean he won't ever; he said the same about Avernum 4 once upon a time. But it's not anywhere on the radar now even with the other classic Avernums updated.

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Jeff has mentioned in the past that creating usable documentation was one of the biggest obstacles in the way of ever making another Blades, and that just writing the documentation for Blades of Avernum so that it could be understood by other people took as long as writing an entire game normally does. Considering that he's also mentioned that Blades of Avernum ended up being financially catastrophic for Spiderweb (like, "if Avernum 4 hadn't been a massive hit we'd have gone out of business" catastrophic), a repeat performance is not likely to happen any time soon.

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Plus when writing an editor for other people, Jeff has to remove all bugs instead of making it good enough to run what he wants.

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In the most recent Reddit AMA Jeff did, he made it clear he was never going to touch BoA again.

 

This is probably fair enough. I'd be hesitant to drop more time on something that almost cost me my livelihood. 

 

Edit: "We have no plans to touch anything about Blades of Avernum ever again."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/7vyv09/im_jeff_vogel_founder_of_spiderweb_software_since/dtw7oei/

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Blades of Exile was successful while BoA was not. Maybe the problem with the latter was that it required you to learn scripting? Also, the calls were not easy to remember?

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7 hours ago, Ishad Nha said:

Blades of Exile was successful while BoA was not. Maybe the problem with the latter was that it required you to learn scripting? Also, the calls were not easy to remember?

 

Well, A3:RW also uses a whole bunch of scripting, so even if Jeff did somehow against all odds change his mind and follow your idea to just repackage a slightly modified version of A3:RW's engine as a new Blades, it would still require the player to learn scripting. Also, it's not gonna happen.

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I think the general issue was that it's much, much harder to make a BoA scenario with the editor tools that existed at the time of the 2004 release than it was to make a BoE scenario with the editor tools as of BoE's release.

 

Also, there came to be more general tools for making games over time — BoE was more novel in the late '90s/early 00's than BoA was in the mid '00s/late '00s, much less now. At this point, if I were learning a new game-making system, there are a ton of engines that I could learn that are much more powerful than anything that Spiderweb would release.

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On 2/10/2018 at 3:02 PM, Lilith said:

Jeff has mentioned in the past that creating usable documentation was one of the biggest obstacles in the way of ever making another Blades, and that just writing the documentation for Blades of Avernum so that it could be understood by other people took as long as writing an entire game normally does.

For every line of code in my BoA design tutorial, there's a paragraph, and for every tool used in the editor, there's a screenshot.

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I'm very curious to see how his Kickstarter campaign will work out—if it happens at all. I wonder what he is planning to do with an enlarged budget. 

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