Canister Poisoning

[Critical_Failure]

I was just wandering....

 

.... if canisters edit copy a peice of genetic code from the creator of the canister, over the user's DNA, then wouldnt it be possible to create canisters to specifically spread genetic disorders such as Huntington's Disorder by canister.

 

The shapers could construct thousands of the things for use by the canister addicted rebel forces, thereby doing serius damage to the command structure.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

There was one poison canister in Geneforge 2. For some reason, the idea never caught on. It didn't do anything permanent, just some damage, but it shouldn't be too hard to make conisters with more harmful effects. Just look at what a drakon geneforge does to a human. It would certainly be an efficient and cruel way for the Shapers to deal with their enemies, but, being a canister advocate, I'm glad they havn't figured it out yet.

[Lilith]

There was a deadly canister in Geneforge 1, too.

 

I'd imagine the amount of essence and raw materials required to make a canister means that using them as tools of destruction generally isn't cost-effective. Better to use the same amount of essence to make a creation and go wreak some havoc with it.

[Frozen Feet]

But what about creating a canister which makes one of the rebels a walking disease factory? A contagious virus that does now harm to the user, but will kill everyone else?

 

Of course, there are high changes of such creation going out of control, so I can see why they haven't done it...

[Sudanna]

Or, perhaps, a canister that feeds on the essence from previous canisters. An excellent reform tool, and it could be deadly to creations, which are made entirely from essence. Not to mention that it could be used as a trap to strip Rebels of their power.

[Acidic Helixbolt]

Same question different angle: why Shapers does not use Ur-Drakons created and controlled the way PC do against rebels?

 

They try to abide by their ban list. Wich quite definitely includes canisters, provided Shapers have an idea how to make'em at all in the first place.

[Alorael at Large]

If the Shapers could make canisters as weapons and thought that the idea would kill rebels, they'd be out making them. There are some problems, though.

 

First, canisters are expensive and can probably kill one and only one rebel at best. Canisters apparently alter genes, and altered genes aren't exactly a communicable disease. Then there's the problem of distribution: the rebels are going to be very suspicious of any canisters found among Shapers. Where do canisters get placed to rebels will use them and how long will they keep using canisters they haven't made themselves?

 

—Alorael, who ultimately doesn't think the effects of canister warfare could cause enough damage to justify the hefty costs and logistical problems. All that money could be going into making new creations that are drakons' equals in power and less likely to start shaping themselves.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

To answer Acidic's question: the skill to create a drakon can not be learned. In every game that has them, you have to learn it from a canister. I assume that means that controlling a drakon is too difficult for a normal person, so you have to be shaped to do it. That means Shapers can never make drakons.

[Questionmarks.]

wait...what does the drakon geneforge do to a human?

I think there was a poisonus canister in G3 you have to bring to some guy to help the rebels...

[Sudanna]

Kills them. Well, twists their bodies into the disfigured image of a pseudo-drakon, thus killing them. Quite painfully.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Onyx Gem:

 

Quote:

I think there was a poisonus canister in G3 you have to bring to some guy to help the rebels...

Which (as I understand it) is only poisonous to you because it is designed specifically for him and his genes.

 

Dikiyoba can't remember where the poisonous canister in G2 is. Will someone please refresh Dikiyoba's memory?

[Questionmarks.]

Onyx Gem likes the Dikiyoba.

[Dikiyoba]

Once was funny. Now it's not. If you must respond, a simple thank you will do. Please stop.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Mr. Scratch]

Viruses work by inserting DNA (or RNA with reverse transcriptase) into cells and disabling the nucleic DNA. If you're modifying nucleic DNA, surely you can modify it to pump out Ebola ...

[Lilith]

Germ warfare isn't a terribly attractive option for the Shapers. The rebels live in lands that the Shapers see as rightfully theirs; they'd really rather there still be people living there when they take them back.

[Alorael at Large]

I've always imagined that canisters alter every copy of the genes in question in every cell in the user's body. I don't think someone whose entire body is shut down to become a virus factory would make a very good vector. The canister user would be too likely to collapse and die immediately.

 

Really, if the Shapers wanted a virus and understand biology well enough to create one in a canister, they could shape one and release it by, say, putting it in an ordinary glass vial and having a creation smash it near some rebels. That's not a good strategy, though, because as Thuryl said they only want to kill rebels. They also probably don't want to die themselves, and there's no genetic basis by which a virus can target rebels and spare Shapers.

 

A virus that removes the ability to shape might work better, but given the Geneforge skill system it's not entirely clear that learning the hard way or from canisters doesn't result in exactly the same changes. If ability is ability, the Shapers still wouldn't want to cripple themselves with an anti-shaping virus. Maybe the best they could do is create a virus that specificallly removes the ability to shape drayks, drakons and gazers. Even that would do very little against anyone but the most powerful rebel shapers.

 

—Alorael, who actually can see the Trakovites making the anti-shaping virus if they ever get a powerful shaper sympathetic to their cause. That would make the war very interesting.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Alorael:

 

Quote:

Maybe the best they could do is create a virus that specificallly removes the ability to shape drayks, drakons and gazers. Even that would do very little against anyone but the most powerful rebel shapers.

Really, it would be much easier (but still somewhat dangerous) to create a virus that directly kills or weakens drayks, drakons, and gazers without affecting other living things.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Dikiyoba:
Really, it would be much easier (but still somewhat dangerous) to create a virus that directly kills or weakens drayks, drakons, and gazers without affecting other living things.

Dikiyoba.

If you give the Shapers the Unbound specifications and then release the Unbound at the end, the Shapers actually do something very much like this to fight the Unbound. It works pretty well, unfortunately for you.

[zergswarm13]

I think that they should make sort of a nuke canister that creates a big explosion when used.

[Delicious Vlish]

And why do you think that?

 

Do you really believe that the Shapers would be so stupid as to do something this incredibly foolhardy?

 

Do you actually believe they are careless enough to leave a weapon of such incredible power out for somebody to find, and possibly use it against them?

 

 

My tentacles hurt.

[Alorael at Large]

What genes do you modify to make someone reach become fissile and reach critical mass?

 

—Alorael, who on the other hand could see the Shapers or the rebels developing a way to make people and creations suddenly become significantly more like pyroroamers. It would serve as a magnificent way to kill someone spectacularly, it would be a potent psychological weapon, and all sufficiently canistered-up rebels would find it hilarious.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Emp:

Quote:

To answer Acidic's question: the skill to create a drakon can not be learned. In every game that has them, you have to learn it from a canister.

What about Geneforge II, where you can learn Create Drakon from the Barzites and Takers?

[zergswarm13]

true you would not want to do that

 

but you could say that for all of the "poisoned" canisters.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Dikiyoba:
Really, it would be much easier (but still somewhat dangerous) to create a virus that directly kills or weakens drayks, drakons, and gazers without affecting other living things.

I'm actually writing a fan fiction in which the Shapers attempt to do just that.

[Critical_Failure]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
I'm actually writing a fan fiction in which the Shapers attempt to do just that.

I'm interested, are you going to post it here when you've finished?

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Of course. It's not like there is any other group of people in the world that might be interested.