Why there? *warning: displays secret of G1*

[Suspicious Vlish]

Retlew:

Quote:

Anyway, how can you expect expansion without any violence?

Why exactly did the Shapers need to expand? Why do they have this impulsive need to impose their laws and ways of life on all living beings? Why can't they just keep to themselves, and leave everyone else alone?

 

You're asking how they could expand without using violence. I'm asking why they needed to expand in the first place.

 

If the Shapers are indeed going to act as the imperialist, they can't cry and whine every time those they are colonizing fight back by any means necessary.

 

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How many of of the empires/nations/states have been established in the history of the world with no violence?

Imperialism isn't necessary to produce a happy, productive nation.

 

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You are now looking to the past to make the Shapers evil? Well look to your own country's past and look how many of thousands/millions of gallons of blood have been spilled. All of your nations are bathing in blood.

Yes yes, humanity's past is filled to the brim with violence, war and imperialism. It's an unpleasant and embarassing part of many nations' histories.

 

However, invading countries to annex land and assimilate their peoples is seen as morally reprehensible in today's society (with a few odd exceptions, such as the Israel-Palestine issue). Just because it has been practiced in previous eras, does not make it acceptable.

 

To unprovokedly invade foreign lands, butcher the resisting indigenous inhabits, and then enslave or impose your laws on the remainder, is unethical. There is no way you can twist it to justify the actions of the Shapers, or any regime in real life which has engaged in similar barbarity.

 

It's funny that you bring up Australia's history. I'm not going to deny that the British treated the Aborigines with great injustice during colonization, and that their has been mistreatment by Australians up until the mid 1950's. Such treatment is widely condemned by today's Australians, and viewed as a black mark on our history.

 

However, in recent times, we have been attempting to made amends and even the scales. Compensation, the returning of sacred land to the natives, a teaching of the horrors that occurred so that such things are never repeated, and a serious attempt to raise Aboriginal to intellectual and financial equals in society.

 

Have the Drayks been compensated for the genocide against their species? Has their been any serious attempt to elevate the serviles to be intellectual and financial equals of the Shapers? I don't think so!

[Radix Malorum Est Cupiditas]

Quote:

Originally written by Suspicious Vlish:
However, invading countries to annex land and assimilate their peoples is seen as morally reprehensible in today's society (with a few odd exceptions, such as the Israel-Palestine issue). Just because it has been practiced in previous eras, does not make it acceptable.

Funny you should mention that. According to the world, they do care. Just not enough to do anything more than say 'you shouldn't be doing that' and promptly pretend that nothing is happening.

[Retlaw May]

Waylander, you missed the point. I'm talking about the past. The Shapers aren't expanding any more. So they are therefore equatable to any nation today. It is the rebels who seem to want to conquer lands that contain people who wish to be left alone. So you condemn the Shapers for doing it in the past, but support the Rebels doing it in the present? Have morals become progressively worse as opposed to things no longer being acceptable like you said?

 

And also, there is still discrimination by the Australian government against natives. Plenty of this has happened in the last 20 years, so don't just pin it on the British, Australians have plenty of blame to take. Also, those who are oppressed are often the worst oppressors. (ie: Irish immigrants and decendants of immigrants against African Americans from the beggining of America up to at least the 60's or 70's.)

[Sudanna]

The Drayks haven't been given any compensation because, until the Rebellion, the Shapers didn't even know there were any left! The Drayks came barreling out of nowhere in violence. If they had come in peace, offering negotiations and the like, they would probably have been received with much less open hatred by the people, and the Shapers would likely have been forced to either at least talk to the Drayks, or butcher citizens. And that's assuming that the Shapers wouldn't have accepted them peacefully at any rate.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Micawber:
Why exactly did the Shapers need to expand? Why do they have this impulsive need to impose their laws and ways of life on all living beings? Why can't they just keep to themselves, and leave everyone else alone?

They certainly could, but they choose to go above and beyond the call of duty by regulating shaping to protect others. In the wrong hands, shaping causes much destruction (see Rebellion). They are taking a great burden upon themselves by regulating their craft and using it to govern the world. They should be commended.

[Micawber]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:

Quote:

Originally written by Micawber:
Why exactly did the Shapers need to expand? Why do they have this impulsive need to impose their laws and ways of life on all living beings? Why can't they just keep to themselves, and leave everyone else alone?

That was Waylander, not me.

[Aequitas]

Tully, it's easier to press the quote button on ther person's post rather than try to remember who wrote what later, while you're typing your post.

[Sudanna]

And you can always check in the little mini-window of the topic at the bottom of the posting screen.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Yeah thanks, I know how to quote. The name Suspicious Vlish is stupid so I went to change it to Waylander to avoid confusion, but wrote Micawber instead. Simple mistake.

[Synergy]

Clearly you a defective specimen who must pe purged from the gene pool to preserve the integrity of the species. ; )

 

-S-

[Aequitas]

Quote:

Originally written by Retlaw May:
The greatest bullies are those who are weak.

How true. I applaud that last post.

[Sudanna]

Or those who believe themselves to be. Remember, Hitler took steroids!

[Aequitas]

Supposedly.

[Retlaw May]

I also heard from my AP Euro teacher last year that he was on speed and various other medications that caused him to flatuate continuously. Also, that he liked the "golden shower". But how much of this is real, and how much of it was to slander him and his image (as if it needed to be altered to make him look bad)? This is what people do, you can't judge someone by asking their enemy's opinions or what they are like.

[Student of Trinity]

Never heard most of those, but I consider it one of the oddest facts I know, that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian.

[Lord Safey]

I heard he was on crack. To be honest it doesn't.All that matters now is the lesson we learned from WW2. What did we learn from WW2 and do we apply those lessons today?

[Retlaw May]

I learned not to invade Russia during their winter... Of course I already learned that from Napoleon. Interesting note though, its not a coincidence that Hitler invaded Russia the same time as Napoleon. Hitler wanted to show his superiority to do that what Napoleon failed. Hitler was obsessed with history, just think about Raiders of the Lost Ark .

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Student of Trinity:
Never heard most of those, but I consider it one of the oddest facts I know, that Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian.

Snopes says this is an urban legend; Hitler did cut down on meat later in life, but only due to digestive problems.