Spoilers: Unresolved Plot Threads for Game Three

[Genernumlover]

As of now we are two thirds of the way through the series, and there are a couple of plot threads that I see as being critical to the last game.

 

The Queen's Illness. Was it the fault of the player and the Nisse?

 

The Queen's legacy. The games hint that she actually wasn't a good queen. She was certainly powerful, but she lost a vassal state and let another fall into utter disrepair.

 

The potential revenge of the Nisse.

 

The royal succession of Haven. There are three candidates for the crown, the player, Sutter, and Delia. The player has been making a name by pacifying vassal states, Sutter has been running around being the queen's enforcer, and Delia has been basically running the Empire. Each character is in a position to make a play for the throne.

 

If not the ruler, what? The player's developing place in the Empire has been hinted at repeatedly. If Sutter or Delia take the throne, and the player doesn't contest that, what role will the player have? I'd be pretty annoyed if I were the player character and I did all of this fieldwork and I got sidelined as an advisor without a new title or a place to call my own.

 

How big the Empire of Haven actually is. For me, this is a critical issue. In Avernum most of the games are set in a self-contained nation, barring Avernum III which gave us a sense of how massive the Empire actually is by the size of Valorim. Geneforge slowly reveals a lot of the Shaper Empire, and Avadon flat-out shows you how big the Pact is at the start of the games. For Queen's Wish, the player has been running around in other lands that are referred to as being small or nearly inconsequential compared to Haven. A map showing the Empire of Haven and the entirety of the known world would do nicely to give a sense of proportionality to the player's actions across the series. Right now, the player just knows that Haven is big and powerful, not how big and powerful it actually is, or what Haven's neighbors are. As of right now, the Empire of Haven is something of an amorphous entity represented by Sutter, Delia, and Sharyn contacting the player through the mirrors. While that makes the idea of the Empire personal to the player as the Empire is represented by family, it also leaves a lot missing. Haven, the player's family, rules a full eight of the known world. What world? What we have seen so far is the queen's palace and a pair of vassal states, so the player is left without quite a bit of context.

 

What happened to the Consort's clan? This ties into the idea of proportionality. Just what did Sharyn give up by marrying the player's father, a warlord from a small nation? How powerful was this family and where are they now?

Edited October 17, 2022 by Genernumlover

[Mechalibur]

I'm most curious about the role the Nisse will play in the final game. They definitely are up to something, but it's hard to tell what their long-term goals are.

 

Regarding how big Haven is, I don't think it really matters much in the long run. You already get an impression of how big it is when you're solving major problems for your vassals and it barely registers for your family members who are dealing with everything else related to Haven. Having a map showing how much space that takes up in comparison wouldn't really change that imo.

 

Regarding Darmal's clan, I think that is brought up once or twice. Most of the clan seems to have moved to the vassal state to the east, using the money they gained from their influential connection to Haven to fund the expedition.

 

I don't think Delia has any plans on becoming the next monarch. She seems to fully support Sutter as the next in line.

[Randomizer]

It comes down to you or Sutter since Delia's opinions don't change the reputation code. Also whether you enlisted the Nisse's help in getting the crown. Even so it doesn't matter as much until the end what you decide unless you want to be king and haven't done much though the previous two games.

 

The Nisse will be important in the end especially if you gave up part of your soul in either gqme or in the end to secure your future.The second game last dream showed that there are limits to their power  and they can't change some things.

 

Haven isn't like the Empire in Avernum. There are still lands that they don't control and Queen Sharyn regrets not taking more of them. The next game might concern expansion and whether you or Sutter do it.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Yeah, the next game is either conquering a whole new territory or "conquering" haven out from under Sutter. I lean towards suspecting the latter since the first game was already "the conqueror."

[Slawbug]

Next to zero chance the third game is set primarily in Haven.  It would be hard to portray that effectively, and it's something Jeff avoids.  I don't think that's what he'd do for likely his last original game.

 

My money's on Delia in spite of all the observations above.

[Mechalibur]

I guess it would have to be Delia after Sutter and I kill each other.

[Slawbug]

"That can be arranged."

[Genernumlover]

On 10/17/2022 at 5:18 PM, Mechalibur said:

I'm most curious about the role the Nisse will play in the final game. They definitely are up to something, but it's hard to tell what their long-term goals are.

 

Regarding how big Haven is, I don't think it really matters much in the long run. You already get an impression of how big it is when you're solving major problems for your vassals and it barely registers for your family members who are dealing with everything else related to Haven. Having a map showing how much space that takes up in comparison wouldn't really change that imo.

 

Regarding Darmal's clan, I think that is brought up once or twice. Most of the clan seems to have moved to the vassal state to the east, using the money they gained from their influential connection to Haven to fund the expedition.

 

I don't think Delia has any plans on becoming the next monarch. She seems to fully support Sutter as the next in line.

 

True. The Nisse seem to be a fairly mixed bag, extreme cruelty mixed with extreme mischievousness is a trademark of a lot of the Fae races in fantasy, and that makes them hard to predict. Human morality doesn't matter to them, as they perceive the world in entirely different terms. Though that's due to elixir dosing in this case, instead of the Nisse being a different race entirely.

 

The Nisse feel like, besides Haven, the common thread uniting the series. Each game is self-contained but is also part of a larger work, so there has to be a recurring villain to help give the series plot cohesion.

 

For me, it feels like I'm fighting for an Empire that isn't really defined. I want to know what kind of world I'm fighting in. Setting the last game in Haven would be overkill, but I would really like to learn more about the world the games are set in.

 

Darmal's clan was referenced as leaving the Low Dhaga, but it feels like they've been kind of shuffled off of the map for future use. That they left for greener pastures feels like a bit of a cop out unless we see more of them in the last installment.

 

Delia seems to be what she says she is, but there is the potential for conflict with her storyline. Especially since Sutter has already been shown to be angry and jealous of the player for getting the queen's approval. If a group of Haven nobles actually put Delia forward as a contender for the throne in light of her more reasonable personality and seeming political skill, then Sutter would likely turn on her. That scenario could occur while Delia is openly supporting Sutter. That's all speculation about a potential conflict, of course.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Genernumlover

[Davies]

Things that will happen in the next game:

 

1) You (and probably Sutter) will be leading an invasion of a new vassal.

2) After a central, tutorial area, there will be three regions to explore, plus an underground area.

3) Actually entering each of those regions will be a challenge.

4) Rather than persuading the local authorities to renew their vassalage, you will be persuading them to accept it ...

5) ... which will mean that this time you can't build your forts until you obtain permission from the locals.

6) You will return to Haven several times over the course of your exploits. (First game, it only happens at the end. Second game, it happens a couple of times. This time, it happens more.)

7) You will have the choice to fight a duel in the throne room, because who among us does not like duels in the throne room? For sad heathens who do not like duels in the throne room, there will also be the choice to avoid this.

[Mechalibur]

Maybe more than 1 duel in a throne room (the foreign nation's throne room and Haven's itself... assuming you challenge Sutter)

[ZorroDragonslayer]

On 10/20/2022 at 8:31 PM, Genernumlover said:

 

............Delia seems to be what she says she is, but there is the potential for conflict with her storyline. Especially since Sutter has already been shown to be angry and jealous of the player for getting the queen's approval. If a group of Haven nobles actually put Delia forward as a contender for the throne in light of her more reasonable personality and seeming political skill, then Sutter would likely turn on her. That scenario could occur while Delia is openly supporting Sutter. That's all speculation about a potential conflict, of course.

Delia could be the wild card here. Her story line has kept her mostly unnoticeable in the major events of the kingdom, playing the role mostly of social support for her family. Secretly she is using her position of head spy and information gathering for the queen to rise to power and is biding her time and garnering support from the lords and maneuvering into a position where she can obtain the throne if the rest of her family all meet their demise. Mom is on the edge and likely to be gone soon and Sutter is quick to spark a fight if he isn't coddled as the favorite one. He expects the throne no matter what and won't let anything get in the way. Every version of QW shows this behavior on his part. This all supports Mechcalibur's comment on Oct 18: "I guess it would have to be Delia after Sutter and I kill each other."

[PkK]

I had thought about this before discovering this thread, so here's my ideas:

The first game was in a quite unimportant colony, the second in a not-so-unimportant vassal. In each the palace was the only place you saw of Haven.

 

The last game might start with the Queen dead and a civil war in Haven itself, not just vassal states. Haven possibly invaded by forces directed by the Nisse, with Sutter and Delia each still holding on to some part of Haven, thinking the other being wrong about how to rule, and thus seeing it as their duty to proclaim themselves monarch, adding further to Haven's problems. Most of the official military would refuse to move, since they don't want to take a side, and would just do the minimum to protect their local area from threats - which would again make for a plausible environment where the player can act, while whatever remains of Haven's military won't.

[ZorroDragonslayer]

Interesting....and bizarre. Thanks for sharing!!