Tenderfoot Thahd Baelrath Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 -scroll to the bottom of the junk bag, keep clicking until the bottom arrow greys out, then keep clicking, is it supposed to show daggers but have unused as a tooltip? -made a new character, tried it, and amongst the unused daggers was random items -anyone else have this? https://imgur.com/a/XZOOmgP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hello Baelrath, That’s a nice little bug you’ve found there! It probably comes from a small interface oversight, where the greyed-out button isn’t correctly deactivated. Can I ask that you send an email about this bug directly to Spiderweb Software? This will make sure that they hear about it, and can work on a fix. It’s possible it’s now too late to get the problem patched in Mutagen, but your report will ensure that problem is ironed out when Geneforge 2 comes around! You can email Spiderweb Software at the address below. Just mention the steps you used to activate the bug, and what happened as a result. Your post here is quite clear, so feel free to just say something similar in the email! support@spiderwebsoftware.com By way of explanation, what I think is happening is that you’re using the junk bag to tap into some other portion of the game’s data. When you scroll past the ‘end’ of the bag, some other area of the game’s data is being loaded. The game is trying to read whatever that is, and interpret it as ‘item’ data. But, because it’s something else entirely, the result doesn’t make much sense. That’s why you’re seeing all those random items and the strange daggers (which are the game’s way of showing items it doesn’t understand). To anyone reading this thread, I say this: Do not interact with the items below the bottom of the junk bag. It might be tempting, because some nice items can pop up down there, and in great quantities. But because you’re interfacing with other parts of the game’s data, removing those items could have all sorts of unpredictable, strange effects. There's a chance you could permanently damage your save file, or potentially even the game itself. So it’s probably best not to risk it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Baelrath Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Rodger that, Ya, it seemed way too risky looting from in there. Its like when you open up a file with the wrong app and all you see are wingdings and occasional words legible. Email sent. Ess-Eschas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Since the junk bag is handled the same way in all the games, it will probably occur with the other recent games. Likely the flaw is that the limit for the bag isn't being properly checked. There is a another bug when too many items are placed in the junk bag it turns everything to daggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/25/2022 at 1:06 AM, Randomizer said: Since the junk bag is handled the same way in all the games, it will probably occur with the other recent games. Likely the flaw is that the limit for the bag isn't being properly checked. There is a another bug when too many items are placed in the junk bag it turns everything to daggers. Yes, and I think it ruins the save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Hello alhoon, Your quotation mentions two very different bugs. To which are you referring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall alhoon Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I think I read here that the "too many things in junk-bag ~> daggers" bug also ruins saves. Which made me afraid so one a while I kept a save at a different folder out of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Thank you, alhoon. Since this topic contains two quite distinct bugs which could easily be confused or conflated, I thought it was important just to make absolutely sure which bug you were talking about! On that note, I think we should just take stock for a moment. So that everyone’s on the same page, below is a summary of the two bugs that are being talked about in this thread. Let’s try not to confuse the two, lest we end up starting harmful urban rumours, or worrying players unduly! 1. Baelrath’s Junk Bag Bug – This bug allows the user to scroll past what is supposed to be the end of the junk bag, resulting in the game displaying a strange assortment of items and dummy items. This is a new bug, one that has arisen in the new interface for Geneforge Mutangen. It is not present in any other Spiderweb titles. It is entirely harmless, so long as you don’t go playing around with the strange item assortment. 2. The ‘Classic’ Junk Bag Bug – This bug fills the player’s junk bag with dummy items which cannot be removed or sold, rendering the junk bag useless. It is an old bug that has appeared in many Spiderweb titles, experienced as far back as Avernum 4. This bug arises from a corrupted save file. All subsequent saves made using this file will also be corrupted. (It doesn’t corrupt any other saves, so no need to go to drastic measures, alhoon). There is no known fix, although I’m still working on it! With apologies to Randomizer, but so far as I’m aware the cause has not been determined. To my knowledge, there is no evidence to suggest it is due to the number of items in the junk bag. If the trigger for this bug were that simple and repeatable, it would have been fixed 15 years ago! So far as we know from reports on these boards, it occurs very rarely, and almost never in a repeatable fashion. There we have it. Sorry to go on about this, but I was concerned this thread could end up confusing these bugs. Hopefully this will help to clear up any potential misunderstandings! ...are from Tibus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Chopkinsca Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Ess-Eschas said: 2. The ‘Classic’ Junk Bag Bug Could also be the "empty container" glitch? You mention it was around since Avernum 4, and the second Avernum trilogy didn't have the junk bag. I can imagine how frustrating it is to try and fix such an elusive bug. This bug is the reason why I keep around so many saves, just in case something happens. ...are from Tibus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Yes, I believe there is a connection between the ‘Classic’ junk bag bug and the ‘empty container’ bug. I can’t vouch for that myself, however; the empty container bug hasn’t been discussed much recently, and I’m not as familiar with the innards of the games that tend to display it as I am with some others. But you’re right, that’s the reason I mentioned the bug extending as far back as Avernum 4. Good catch on pointing out that those games don’t have a junk bag, of course! I should have been a little clearer on that point. Oops! In any case, it’s generally a good rule of thumb to keep around multiple save files. After all, in Jeff’s own words: “If Exile You want to save Back up your save slots Burma Shave.” Otherwise, fixing a bug like this is frustrating, but I’m sure it’s possible. All it takes is enough instances, and it should be possible to track it down. On that note, any Mac players who encounter the ‘Classic’ bug, please store the affected save file, and send me a copy of it if possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 The empty container bug is irreproducible and I've tried to repeat it. Doing the same steps from the last uncorrupted save doesn't help. The junk bag bugs are reproducible and how to get it them are known even though the code cause might not be known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Hmm, that’s interesting. I wasn’t aware that anything was known about the causes of the ‘Classic’ junk bag bug! Not least, what you’ve said here seems to slightly contradict some of the reports I’ve read from users who’ve been experiencing that problem. However, anything I can learn about what’s going on with this bug is helpful, and gratefully received! Is there a post on the forums where the causes of the ‘Classic’ junk bag bug are discussed clearly and unequivocally? If so, could you send me a link to it? That might help me in my search for a workaround! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Looking at some of the tics on the full bag with daggers issue. Junk bag full issue topic: Junk Bag Full Bug bugged item drop/pick ups Avadin junk bag issue I gave up looking for the oldest topic on the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Ess-Eschas Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Thanks for the links! They’re interesting, and you’ll see I actually commented on one of them. However, none of these topics seem to mention the cause of this bug. They simply describe the bug’s effects, or gameplay problems that arise when the bug has triggered. I can’t see a single reference to anyone making heavy use of the junk bag prior to the bug triggering – only comments that the junk bag is full after the bug has triggered. Unfortunately then, it seems that at the moment I only have your word that the the cause of this bug is known. And if I’m looking into the bug in an attempt to help people who are experiencing it, I simply can’t just accept a claim as to its cause. I need to know for sure, and for that, I need some solid proof. Indeed, the posts you’ve linked to here don’t seem to tally very well with the cause you mention. Reports about this bug are linked to early game locations (Angel’s Rest in Avernum 3, one of the Nephilim Forts in Avernum 1 or 2, something around the end of the Avadon 1 Demo, etc.). I’m not sure the player will have had much chance to fill their junk bag this early on in those respective games, or even to put that much in them. One of the posts even implies (although it is ambiguous) that a player saw the bug at the very start of the game. Moreover, there are posts on these forums that describe people completely filling their junk bags without any problems. See here, for example (although, amusingly, this post does describe a *different* junk bag problem for one user):https://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/21140-a2cs-petty-pleasures/?do=findComment&comment=280217 So, with apologies Randomizer, but acting in good faith I can’t accept your claim as to the cause of this bug just now. If evidence about what causes this bug comes to light, then I will of course accept it happily! Not least, it will help me in my efforts to come up with a workaround! But for now, with regret and with my assurance that I’m not trying to be contrary, I’m afraid I need to still consider the cause of this bug to be unknown. ...are from Tibus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ...are from Tibus Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 23 hours ago, Randomizer said: The empty container bug is irreproducible and I've tried to repeat it. Doing the same steps from the last uncorrupted save doesn't help. I think this is a little misleading. I don't think anyone has ever been able to actually duplicate every single thing that did in between an uncorrupted save and the container bug appearing -- gameplay involves far, far too many small things happening for that to be the case, particularly since the moment the bug triggers is very likely prior to the first moment the player sees evidence of it. Also, we do know certain things that used to cause this bug -- for example, in A4, Jeff confirmed an explicit connection between using "backtostart" and this bug occuring. This has been changed or fixed in later games. Ess-Eschas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.