Starting Skills, Bonus Skills, and Stat Formulas

[Mechalibur]

For all those optimizers out there, I figured I'd list out the starting skills, bonuses to those skills, and the formulas for HP, Essence, and Spell Points.

 

Starting Skills - Character skills at level 1. Skills with a * are eligible for a +1 increase from sarcophagi in the Tombs or South Bridge Map (there are other sarcophagi skill bonuses, but they are quite late game, and not really worth noting here).

 

Shaper

Strength: 2
Agility: 3
Intellect: 3
Essence Mastery: 4
Endurance: 2

 

Combat Skills [Weak]
Melee Weapons: 0
Missile Weapons: 0*
Quick Action: 0*
Evasion: 0*

 

Magic Skills
Battle Magic: 1
Mental Magic: 1
Blessing Magic: 1
Spellcraft: 0*

 

Shaping Skills [Strong]
Fire Shaping: 1
Battle Shaping: 1
Magic Shaping: 1
Healing Craft: 1

 

Agent

Strength: 3
Agility: 4
Intellect: 4
Essence Mastery: 3
Endurance: 3

 

Combat Skills
Melee Weapons: 1
Missile Weapons: 2
Quick Action: 2
Evasion: 2

 

Magic Skills [Strong]
Battle Magic: 2
Mental Magic: 2
Blessing Magic: 2
Spellcraft: 2

 

Shaping Skills [Weak]
Fire Shaping: 1
Battle Shaping: 0*
Magic Shaping: 0*
Healing Craft: 0*

 

Guardian

Strength: 4
Agility: 3
Intellect: 2
Essence Mastery: 3
Endurance: 4

 

Combat Skills [Strong]
Melee Weapons: 3
Missile Weapons: 3
Quick Action: 2
Evasion: 3

 

Magic Skills [Weak]
Battle Magic: 0
Mental Magic: 0*
Blessing Magic: 0*
Spellcraft: 0*

 

Shaping Skills
Fire Shaping: 1
Battle Shaping: 1
Magic Shaping: 0*
Healing Craft: 1

 

Interestingly, when you account for the sarcophagi bonuses, all the characters end up having the same starting shaping skills at 1 each. In fact, if you compare the agent to the shaper after considering that, the Shaper's only higher starting stat is Essence Mastery. Still, the shaper can put the most points into their shaping skills due to the lowered costs, so they're still better at shaping in the long-term.

 

Bonus Skills - The total bonuses to skills you can get outside of sarcophagi and items. Some of these have requirements that you might not necessarily meet, however (quite a few require 5 leadership for example). These are just the raw numbers; for details, check out Randomizer's canister list or nlambert's index.

 

Strength: +2

Agility: +3

Intellect: +2

Essence Mastery: +2

Endurance: +1

 

Melee Weapons: +3

Missile Weapons: +1

Quick Action: +3

Evasion: +1

 

Battle Magic: +0

Mental Magic: +0

Blessings Magic: +0

Spellcraft: +2

 

Fire Shaping: +1

Battle Shaping: +2

Magic Shaping: +1

Healing Craft: +1

 

Leadership: +1

Mechanics: +3

Stealth: +2

 

Highest Leadership check appears to be 12, although it's only used in 2 instances. In addition to the +1 you can get from Halm, there is a +2 leadership item, meaning you should never put more than 9 points into Leadership. Interestingly, there are 2 battle shaping canisters, but only 1 for fire and magic shaping. That means your battle creations can get a +1 level lead over the others.

 

Endgame spoiler: 

Spoiler

Using the Geneforge adds 8 to your Strength, Agility, Intellect, Essence Mastery, Endurance, Melee Weapons, Missile Weapons, Battle Magic, Mental Magic, Blessings Magic, and Healing Craft.

 

Stat Formulas

 

Essence: 4 + [2 + Level] * [1 + Essence Mastery]

Spell Energy: 8/10/12 + [2 + Level] * [1 + Intellect]

Note: 8 is for Guardian, 10 is for Shaper, 12 is for Agent, although in the long run, these differences don't really add up to much.

 

HP Formula (variables defined below): [Base HP + (5 * L) + (H * E)] * Class HP Mod

 

Base HP = 8 for Shapers and Agent, 10 for Guardian

L = Character Level

E = Endurance

H = HP per Endurance Coefficient. This starts out as 5, and increases by 1 at every even level. So, for example, at level 8, the coefficient would be 9.

Class HP Mod = 1 for Shaper, 1.3 for Agent, 1.5 for Guardian

Edited March 6, 2021 by Mechalibur

[mikeprichard]

While a few sarcophagi are likely too late in the game to be practical to use, I'm adding the full list here so for completeness.

Sarcophagi (can obtain bonus only if related skill without items is currently 0)

Missile Weapons: +1 (Southbridge)
Quick Action: +1 (The Tombs)
Evasion: +1 (The Tombs)

Battle Magic: +1 (Inner Crypt; very late game)
Mental Magic: +1 (The Tombs)
Blessing Magic: +1 (The Tombs)
Spellcraft: +1 (Southbridge)

Battle Shaping: +1 (The Tombs)
Magic Shaping: +1 (The Tombs)
Healing Craft: +1 (The Tombs)

Leadership: +1 (Sealed Lab; fairly late game)
Mechanics: +1 (Sealed Lab; fairly late game)
Stealth: +1 (Sealed Lab; fairly late game)

Bonus Skills (notes to Mechalibur's above list)

Note the three training bonuses (Leadership +1 with Halm in Drayk's Vale for 2000c, only if Leadership at least 3, not allied with Takers, and don't have Trajkov Amulet; Mechanics +1 with Flig in Winding Road for 2000c; Stealth +1 with Dig in Patrol Bridge for 2000c, only if servile reputation not too low) are included in Mechalibur's "Bonus Skills" section above.

Edited February 24, 2021 by mikeprichard

[Randomizer]

If you are wearing Carnelian Gloves (+1 Battle Magic and Mental Magic) when you use a sarcophagus, then in the Tombs you won't get the point in Mental Magic. You have to remove them and try again. I found out the hard way.

 

If you use the Magic Shaping canister in Pentil before using the sarcophagus in the Tombs, you won't get the point.

[Mechalibur]

The training bonuses were included in the bonus skill list. They are one time increases, so I consider them a +1 bonus like any other 

[mikeprichard]

OK, thank you both for the clarifications.

Edited February 24, 2021 by mikeprichard

[Mechalibur]

Okay, the new patch is out, and I think I figured out the new HP formula. It's similar to the original, but with a key difference that makes Endurance an actually worthwhile investment. Even if you don't invest in Endurance, you should see a bit more HP on your characters in the late game.

 

New Formula is [Base HP + (5 * L) + (H * E)] * Class HP Mod

 

Quite a few variables here to define.

Base HP = 8 for Shapers and Agent, 10 for Guardian

L = Character Level

E = Endurance

H = HP per Endurance Coefficient. This starts out as 5, and increases by 1 at every even level. So, for example, at level 8, the coefficient would be 9.

Class HP Mod = 1 for Shaper, 1.3 for Agent, 1.5 for Guardian

 

Really the formula is the exact same, but now instead of the HP per Endurance always being 5, it increases as you level.

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

So supposing you reach level 18, buying a point of endurance would net a Shaper 14 hitpoints and a Guardian 21.

 

At base hitpoints 98/100 respectively, that's a pretty dang huge boost. I don't think I've been tempted to buy endurance points before, but now I am.

 

Creations still seem to get a flat amount, correct? Depending on creation type.

 

Hmm. Might be time to retire that oozing belt.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Iguana-on-a-stick

[Mechalibur]

Creations use the same rules as before, so this isn't a massive surprise buff to Shapers. Also worth noting, Endurance has a base cost of 3 now instead of 4.

[BenS]

4 hours ago, Mechalibur said:

Creations use the same rules as before, so this isn't a massive surprise buff to Shapers. Also worth noting, Endurance has a base cost of 3 now instead of 4.

Does Endurance only enhance hit points, as the tool tip would indicate, or does it help w/ resistances too? Or is that only from gear and whatever Mental resistance you begin w/ as a shaper of some kind? I'm early on in a Guardian play through, which is why I'm curious; I ignored it as a Shaper.

[Randomizer]

Armor and items are the only things that increase resistances. Stats do nothing and you start with a base 70% mental resistance.

[SearingTouch]

On 3/6/2021 at 11:46 AM, Mechalibur said:

Okay, the new patch is out, and I think I figured out the new HP formula. It's similar to the original, but with a key difference that makes Endurance an actually worthwhile investment. Even if you don't invest in Endurance, you should see a bit more HP on your characters in the late game.

 

New Formula is [Base HP + (5 * L) + (H * E)] * Class HP Mod

 

Quite a few variables here to define.

Base HP = 8 for Shapers and Agent, 10 for Guardian

L = Character Level

E = Endurance

H = HP per Endurance Coefficient. This starts out as 5, and increases by 1 at every even level. So, for example, at level 8, the coefficient would be 9.

Class HP Mod = 1 for Shaper, 1.3 for Agent, 1.5 for Guardian

 

Really the formula is the exact same, but now instead of the HP per Endurance always being 5, it increases as you level.

 

That's nice to hear. Was disappointing to see the low amount of HP that endurance gave you in the base before patch game. I've been having a hard time as a guardian, I think Shaper would be WAY more powerful.

[Mechalibur]

I haven't played Guardian since the change to the HP formula, but it should now theoretically be easier for them to tank for their creations. Shaper sort of plays the opposite way where their creations need to take hits for them. Last time I played guardian, I had a bunch of fights where I'd get maybe 1 or 2 hits in and every other turn would be spent casting a healing spell trying to stay alive while my creations did all the work 😛

[Lorn]

Got two questions about the Geneforge.

 

1) Am I wrong thinking that if you use the cheat to reset your stats after using the geneforge, you basically make your own character worse? Because if you get a +9, it's different to get it when your stats are at 9, and when your stats are at 0


2) Why doesn't the geneforge also improve your "shaping" abilities?

Edited June 30, 2023 by Lorn

[Mechalibur]

Spoiler

I think the respec cheat keeps all your bonuses, including the Geneforge.