Didn't finish it.

[blackwight]

Lately, I launch Avernum and close it again. I'd like to see how it ends. I may yet finish it some rainy day, maybe not. Probably not. Here are my issues:

 

(1) I cannot relate to my fellow 'hands'. They are irresponsible brats who should be kept away from sharp objects. The story seems to require that I sympathize with them, but I want to kill three of them already. Maybe four, I can't remember. I would deny them their quests, but can I spare the experience points?

 

(2) It's too verbose. If the names are Czechoslovakia and Kyrgyzstan, I just click through it. Pretty soon I don't know what the heck is going on. The writing is not captivating enough for me to slowly sound out these tongue twisters when I should be getting ready for bed. I should emphasize that I did enjoy the dialog in many places. There were just too many long-winded explanations and too many syllables. You can't play the game without reading it all.

 

(3) It's too linear. I would have joined the 'bad guys' a long time ago, but there doesn't appear to be an option yet.

 

(4) The battles are too much work. They get repetitious. Don't punish the player, please!

 

I've gotten as far as the forest where I'm supposed to fight an army I'm allied with, between two countries that I'm supposed to prevent from feuding, because one of my colleagues is hell-bent on avenging something that happened in the distant past (family was killed?). How did such a person become a hand? Doesn't Redbeard do a background check?

 

So... I said "screw this" and went to kill the despot in the upper left country (starts with a K). He, at least, deserves it. But no... his miserable subjects would rather die than lose him, it seems, because their neighbors will attack them without him (?), even though they have nothing of value and there appears to be plenty of land. So I have to kill the whole village. Come on.

 

 

 

There you have it. This is intended to be feedback to the game's makers. I'm not here to debate with anyone. Thank you!

[Lilith]

There's actually an explanation given near the end of the game for why you're working with such rebellious Hands. Also, it's possible to resolve all their personal quests without actually giving them what they want, and not really lose out on any XP in the process (and you'll hit the level cap by endgame anyway). Still, if you're not having fun then you're not having fun.

[Randomizer]

I've found the best way to have fun is to create a new game using Jeff's existing ones. It's called annoy the game designer. The idea is to find new and interesting ways to play the game that Jeff never intended to happen.

 

For Avadon it was play the game without having the Hands accompany except for their individual quests. It's harder, but you don't have to listen to all that chatter.

[Brocktree]

Since I've just finished the game, I'll chip in with my own thoughts.

 

1. I don't think the companions are particularly well written. They seem to exist more for exposition and to create an ethical dilemma, rather than to function as 3D people. Nevertheless, I think that at least 3 of them have legitimate grievances against Avadon, if you look at it from their POV:

 

- The Pact has rescinded the Wyldrylms ancestral right to tax travelers on their roads. Many tribes relied on this as their sole source of revenue, and are now living in poverty since the Pact has essentially kicked the rice bowl out of their hands.

 

- Shima's whole family (tribe?) was murdered by a rival tribe who was favoured by Avadon. It's all well and good to talk about the 'bigger picture', but it's pretty hard not to get personal in such an instance.

 

- Sevilin's scenario is similar to Shima's. Bandits butchered his comrades. Again, it's all well and good to talk about the bigger picture, until someone kills your loved one and gets off scott free. Being able to evade punishment simply by making yourself useful is not considered justice, even in today's society.

 

- I couldn't really sympathise with Natalie. Avadon mishandled her, but it was suicide to go off alone after the drake.

 

2. I agree that the game is way to verbose. My eyes glazed over whenever I had to read the names of certain nations. The situation was made even worse by Shima. Which nation did Shima belong to? Who hated him? Why? The captain in Castle Vebeaux should have had a grievance against him, but didn't? But the people in the other country also wanted to kill Shima? So both nations hated him? And Natalie was from the rival nation, but seemed to get along well with him? Was the captain who was working from the Duke, from the nation the Duke was trying to negotiate a peace treaty with? Huh? I guess it all just boiled down to everyone hating everyone else, for whatever reason.

 

3. The game is linear, but the story was compelling enough to keep me playing.

 

4. The battles are poorly designed, but the game mechanics are pretty good.

 

Redbeard is arguably the worst leader in the game. No, he doesn't do background checks. And even if he discovers treachery, he mind-rapes the culprit and then has them serve his *as his most loyal advisor*. His organisation has created so much ill-will that basically everyone (Hanvar's council, dragons, Farlands, virtually every nation in the Midlands, his own Hands, Eyes and Hearts) hates Avadon.

 

The despot in Khemeria is basically acting like every other warlord in that region. His biggest mistake is not getting off his ass and hunting down the shadowbeast himself, instead he sits back and LOLs as it kills his own citizens, eventually resulting in Avadon's gaze falling on him. Oops.

 

Avadon's central theme seems to be that the more you piss people off, the more trouble you're in for down the track.

[Lilith]

 

 

hey g how are things, i hope life is looking up for you since last we talked

[Death Knight]

The only part of Avadon that I find is a pain is the Zhossa Mindtaker battle. I always find that the battle itself is the hardest battle in game. All the other battles in game are a breeze to get through, even ones after it. The reason is that at that point in the game, you have to have a strong offense and defense to last through the battle without losing any chars. I find I most of the time can get past it on norm. Sometimes, I change difficulty to casual when my characters stats just arent at their strongest point.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

I agree, I was playing the game on torment and the fights while tough were manageable, but that one forced me to play on hard and it was still tough.

[Leaper]

Yeah, I've only gotten to the final stage of the battle once, and my main character (a Shadowwalker) was the only one conscious. I lost. Everyone just takes so much fire damage that it's hard to keep up without getting lucky. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

[Death Knight]

Yeah, I've only gotten to the final stage of the battle once, and my main character (a Shadowwalker) was the only one conscious. I lost. Everyone just takes so much fire damage that it's hard to keep up without getting lucky. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

 

Hey, from what I remember of that battle (few days ago), you have to pick the right soldier that you can damage the most and focus solely on them. I remember that dabert the fighter has the most health, so dont pick him, go after serlait, I think that he can be damaged much faster as he has less health. Also remember this is all subjective and you might be able to damage one of them more unlike what I said as your party might be different. Magical damage or poison is good too against them in this fight.

[Leaper]

Wrong Zhossa Mindtaker battle.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

The second one? Just make Nathalie stand in front of fire, she can absorb most of the damage if you have made decent investment in middle branch skills.

[Leaper]

Well, I apparently didn't, because she was still taking up to 70 damage from Dragonflame. But I managed to get lucky and win anyway, finally.

[Catoblepas]

1) I guess i could relate to Shema a bit, considering that his entire clan was genocided with the support of his boss, that's a pretty good reason to be angry, I think. However the impact of these quests is lessened considerably by the fact that all of the folks will try to talk you out of it/bribe you/ or otherwise try to use diplomacy to talk their way out of conflict. Consdering how unreasonable and insane soem of the faction leaders/boss battles can be, (almost invariably resulting in a fight no matter how hard you try to avoid loss of life), the side quest villains don't really seem so bad. It kind felt like I was going off to pick on folks, abusing my avadon authority, ironic considering you have to do these quests to get the rebel ending anyways....bit of a dissonance there, I think. Some non-lethal methods of concluding the missions that kept my party members loyal at the endgame would have been appreciated.

 

Another oddity that slightly annoyed me was that all of the player character choices with the exception of the blademaster seem to have hailed from a pretty specific region of the empire, most obvious with the shadow walker and sorceress. It was therefore very odd to have the exact same dialogue options no matter what. Why is my sorceress, who looks liek Natalie's older sister, asking her questions about her homeland and culture as if I'm some sort of ignorant foreigner? Why does nobody notice when I'm a shadowwalker/shaman/sorcerer when it should be immediately relevent to the conversation or situation at hand? Peopel noticed when I had Shema or Natalie etc in my party when it was appropriate, it seems odd that noone would notice my character's apparent nationality or profession when say, Shema, is getting all sorts of racism etc thrown his way.

 

2) Actually, this one really didn't bother me so much, some people and palces have foreign names, I think it is appropriate and helps keep them distinct.

 

3) I agree. I kept waiting for the much-foreshadowed rebel option to be presented, only to see it occur in literally the last half hour of the game. Very disappointed there.

 

4) The turn-based skill recharge seems to drive battles from going either one of two ways- either a complete cakewalk, or a nightmare. It was extremely irritating as a sorceress waiting for my special abilities to recharge when fighting fire-resistant enemies, consdiering my only options for attacks that didn't require recharge tiems were an increadibly weak bow attack or a fire attack (to which the enemy was immune). Even worse was the healing abilities, which it seemed were never available when you needed them.

 

The wierd difficulty spikes and crevasses were a bit odd as well. Mindtaker, Redbeard, and the canyon hellhounds in Shema's quest spring to mind first, due to being pretty much essential for the rebel ending.

[Jerakeen]

It was extremely irritating as a sorceress waiting for my special abilities to recharge when fighting fire-resistant enemies, consdiering my only options for attacks that didn't require recharge tiems were an increadibly weak bow attack or a fire attack (to which the enemy was immune).

 

The Sorceress has more different damage types available than any other class. And if you load her up with attack scarabs, she will almost never run out of options. And since her scarabs will key off Intelligence, which is her main stat anyway, they'll be used to best effect. I never waste one of her slots on a passive bonus or healing scarab. Once she comes into her full power, I regard the rest of the party as basically support and protection for her.

[Randomizer]

If you build up the sorceress' middle column with focus mastery you can recharge by taking magical attacks. Even an enemy's reflection of your spell only helps you.

[Catoblepas]

The Sorceress has more different damage types available than any other class. And if you load her up with attack scarabs, she will almost never run out of options. And since her scarabs will key off Intelligence, which is her main stat anyway, they'll be used to best effect. I never waste one of her slots on a passive bonus or healing scarab. Once she comes into her full power, I regard the rest of the party as basically support and protection for her.

Yes, I realized this playing through the game, but the fact of the matter being that there *is* a timer. Why am I forced to use a higher-tier AOE spell when I only need to use the low-level ice spell? I found myself frequently having to use the spell that was available rather than the spell which would be useful for the situation

 

If you build up the sorceress' middle column with focus mastery you can recharge by taking magical attacks. Even an enemy's reflection of your spell only helps you.

 

I had it maxed out actually, with two specializations in that collumn, I never really noticed a huge difference considering how fast the fights seem to be decided, and the moment a fight is encountered where the recharge time mattered, It *really* mattered. I found it a needlessly frustrating addition to the skills system, especially on top of the already existing fatigue system. IMO the essence/energy system from geneforge accomplished the same goals but much better, and left me feeling much more in control of the flow of the battle. Even the essence system from Geneforge works better than the Vitality system, because you can rest pretty much in every city, isntead of having to go trek all the way back to the obelisk to recharge. I liked the variety of weapons in the game-it's not often you see spears or javelins it seems, but I didn't like much else about it.

[madrigan]

I've played Avadon from beginning to end three times. Maybe four. I am more impressed with it each time. The politics are about as real as it gets in a game of this kind. You don't have to follow along with all the cultural and territorial conflicts, but it is much more fun if you do. I think the key to understanding the overall narrative is accepting that your character is not the hero of the story. This is just the first chapter, anyway. I suspect that Avadons 2 and 3 will be progressively more sophisticated intellectually, based on what I've seen in Avernum and Geneforge.

 

As for the supporting characters, Nathalie is a wackjob and I can't travel with her at all. Shima needs to decide what his priorities really are. Sevilin has PTSD so I don't blame him for his more irritating traits. The only one I actually like is Jenell. She has a legitimate gripe and is not a psychopath.

[Kelandon]

My eyes glazed over whenever I had to read the names of certain nations.

Have we ever put our collective finger on why the names in Avadon were so hard to keep track of? Even as I was playing it, I couldn't remember which nation was which or, much of the time, which character was which. I never had that problem with, say, Mertis or Cotra or Lorelei.

[Randomizer]

Long names of places and some of them sounded (spelled) the same way like those ones with K.

[Kelandon]

Could it really just be that they were so much longer? I guess Kva and Kellem-blah start with the same letter, too. Duly noted for future story-writing.

 

I guess it also had something to do with the relatively giant number of nations/major characters. In Avernum, you pretty much have three (nephils, sliths, Avernites) that grow in the later games (vahnatai, Empire). In Geneforge, the names of the factions are words, and there are not huge masses of characters to keep track of (Trajkov and maybe two or three others in GF1). In Avadon, there were, what, five major nations, each with large numbers of major/minor characters, so it's all rather huge in scope for a single game.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

In Avadon, there were, what, five major nations, each with large numbers of major/minor characters, so it's all rather huge in scope for a single game.

Apart from the five pact-members there are also the non-pact nations and the names aren't too distinct in them either.