Avernum 4: First Playthrough (ask questions here)

[Juan Carlo]

Since someone is doing an A5 playthrough thread, I thought I'd start an catchall A4 playthrough thread. Since these just went up on steam I imagine that I'm not the only guy playing through at the moment. So if there is anyone else out there playing the game please feel free to use this thread to post your thoughts and questions.

[Juan Carlo]

I'll start:

 

I'm playing on torment. My party is level 9. I have a custom warrior (elite warrior/divinly blessed), custom archer (Nephil, sharpshooter, divinely blessed), custom Priest (Divinely blessed, Preist trait), and a mage (Divinely blessed, mage trait).

 

Thoughts right now:

 

-Most surprisingly I've only had a party wipe like twice so far. I am just about to leave the demo area, so maybe things will get harder, but still I expected things to be harder much faster like they were in "Escape From the Pitt."

 

-Have been seriously underwhelemed by the story so far. This is probably the least captivating start to a Spiderweb game I've ever played. They usually have some sort of hook to grab you in the first half hour or so, but this one is just mostly "You are adventurers! Go and adventure!" for like the first 5 to 10 hours of the game. Although it finally seems like things are picking up as I leave the demo area, so we'll see.

 

-I'm new to the older Avernum games. I very much prefer the newer JRPG type "tiny tranversable map" interface from "EFTP." I guess I just never feel fully like I can get a bird's eye view of anything. It's not a deal breaker for me or anything, though, just more of an annoyance over all the wasted space.

 

Over all, though, I'm having fun with it. My party is currently level 9 and are about to go see what awaits them in the eastern Gallery!

 

I'll post any random questions I encounter here in the hopes that some kind soul might answer.

[Juan Carlo]

My only question at the moment is how you should build defense for Nephile archers. Is it best to focus on parry for defence? Or should you just try to keep him from getting hit at all via positioning and by pumping skills like Gynamistics/defense/dexterity?

 

Does parry even work with bows? Or do you need a sword equipped?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Juan Carlo

My only question at the moment is how you should build defense for Nephile archers. Is it best to focus on parry for defence? Or should you just try to keep him from getting hit at all via positioning and by pumping skills like Gynamistics/defense/dexterity?

Does parry even work with bows? Or do you need a sword equipped?

Parry works even without a melee weapon equipped, although there's no particular reason not to equip a sword unless you have problems with equipment weight. If you're planning on making a pure archer on Torment difficulty... well, the optimal advice is "don't play a pure archer on Torment difficulty", but failing that, pump Endurance and try to stay away from enemies.

[Randomizer]

Also use trainers when you hit the Eastern Gallery to buy skills that you want but don't want to invest skill points to unlock. Save up your money because training and new spells will be expensive.

 

Also in Avernum 4 to 6 getting another level in a spell doesn't do that much unless you use it all the time to heal or as your main damage attack. There aren't the bonus effects like in Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

[Juan Carlo]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

f you're planning on making a pure archer on Torment difficulty... well, the optimal advice is "don't play a pure archer on Torment difficulty", but failing that, pump Endurance and try to stay away from enemies.

Bah.

I read through all of the guides on this forum and it seemed like the consensus was that archers are OK on torment in Avernum 4.

Maybe I misread?

So yeah, I guess I'll give him some parry then and some end and try not to get hit.

Any other suggestions from people how to build a capable pure archery on torment?

[Lilith]

Archery is okay in Avernum 4, but it's cheap enough in terms of skill points that you can also do something else with that character rather than just boost archery skills into the ionosphere. I like to give my archer some priest spells. I guess a pure archer can work, though.

[Juan Carlo]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Archery is okay in Avernum 4, but it's cheap enough in terms of skill points that you can also do something else with that character rather than just boost archery skills into the ionosphere. I like to give my archer some priest spells. I guess a pure archer can work, though.

Oh, that makes sense. I'll look into maybe expanding his repertoire as I proceed.

Thanks.

[Erebus the Black]

So wait, double posting is frowned upon but triple posting is allowed? Or is it just me you like to frown upon

[Lilith]

Double posting is generally discouraged, but enforcement is on a case-by-case basis. If it's a one-off thing to provide new information or ask a new question, it's normally acceptable. If it's for the sake of inflating post count, not so much.

[Kelandon]

That said, we do also frown upon you. Vigorously.

[Erebus the Black]

So back to the OP, remember to give tool use to your mage, as this is the game where it stacks with the unlock spell.

And @xsi: I'll assume your being funny (otherwise my paranoia will get out of hand )

[Earth]

mage-priest and priest-mage are still good to have and haste isn't nerfed like it is at A6 and Avadon and AEFTP..

[Juan Carlo]

So what's the easiest way to navigate in these older games? I find that screen scroll navigating is a pain. Just using the keyboard seems like the easiest and most intuitive method, but for some reason the landscape is littered with scores of pointless rocks making keyboard navigation an equal pain.

 

Is there anyway to click on the mini map and send your party to where you clicked? That would be awesome.

[Erebus the Black]

Well, in a playthrough you're supposed to share all of your experiences while you play. Who you attacked, how you defeated them, who you talked to, what spells and skills you procured. So far this isn't much of anything, just a "hi I've started to play and would like some tips".

Another thing to look out for is a bug/feature where (IIRC) some spell books appear one more time than they should which allows you to raise the spell level to 5, but if you read all books of a specific spell before buying a spell level from the shop the shop will only let you reach level 4.

[Earth]

Avernums and Avadon are meant to be played by mouse except on tight spots where autorouting fails.

[Juan Carlo]

Originally Posted By: Y? Bcaus, IDK he's on 3rd & IDC

"hi I've started to play and would like some tips".

lol

That's all I intended it to be. These are massive games. I barely have time to play them at all, much less narrate my every action.

I would add, though, that I'm half way through the eastern gallery on torment and it's still easier than any other SW game I've played on torment. I think I've had just 4 or 5 party wipes so far. So there's not really much to talk about.

I expect it will get more difficult eventually?

[Earth]

if has ideal build then no big challenge unless multiple enemies or bosses.

[n9091]

Rehashing my topic but get 300 coins, buy the apprentice belt off Destry (the lone guard near the hut to the SE of Fort Monastery) then kill her and take the steel spear from her corpse and the yew longbow from her room. Both the steel spear and yew longbow are going to be way better than anything else you find for a long time. You could kill her near straightaway but you can't get the apprentice belt from her unless you pay for it.

 

Also, there are special skills that you can put points into once you achieve certain requirements. Search on the forums to find more details about them.

[Nim]

Spending 300 coins on a +1 magical efficiency belt is a total waste of money.

[Chessrook44]

I just finished my playthrough of Avernum 4 last night. I admit, I played it on Easy (I tend to play games on Easy first so that I can experience the story without yelling at the AI for sniping my head 60 times in 2 minutes), but I enjoyed it.

 

Party consisted of a straight-up warrior (Wielding sword and shield, also dumped some points in Nature Lore), a Slith Warrior/utility (Wielded a polearm and dumped a lot of points in Tool Use), a straight-up Priest (High Priest Spells skill, also had a lot of points dumped into First Aid), and a straight-up Mage (High Mage Spells skill, also had a lot of points dumped into Arcane Lore). I tend to go with well-rounded parties like that, and plan for similar setups in the future.

 

And overall, I enjoyed the game. Had one or two moments where I had a little trouble trying to decide which way I should go next (Only to later find that a barrier would have prevented me from going one way anyway) and pretty much just played the completionist way I play, getting every single quest I found completed by the end. Except Metal for Dawdy. As far as I know he never has enough iron...

 

Also learned the hard way that there's a limit of 30,000 gold that you can carry. Any more you take will just be lost forever. So SPEND YOUR GOLD PEOPLE!!!!

 

Up next, Avernum 5!

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Nim

Spending 300 coins on a +1 magical efficiency belt is a total waste of money.

maybe but at beginning you don't have that high intelligence so that belt helps a bit.

[Nim]

At the beginning you need all the money you can get for training while one point of ME isn't going to make a lick of a difference.

 

http://www.spiderwebforums.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=76277#Post76277

[Juan Carlo]

I just cleared everything in the Eastern Gallery (including that spirit dude who guards the emerald chest plate--I just dazed him repeatedly and he died without even getting a hit in on me), and I still say this is the easiest spiderweb game I've ever played on torment.

 

Again, maybe it will get harder, but I have a 10+ skill point reserve on all my characters that I haven't even spent yet just because I'm unsure where to put them yet and they don't really seem to need them. Magic users seem insanely strong in this game in terms of damage. Same with bow users. My tank doesn't do much damage, but he doesn't really have to as all he has to do is be a meat shield while the rest of my party snipes everything.

 

Of course I will gladly eat my words and come begging on this forum for help when/if things get harder or I come across a super difficult boss.

[Juan Carlo]

Question: Is there a way to train magery and blademaster all on your own? Or can you only use trainers?

 

I have 6 polearms, 6 melee, and 7 strength, yet my blademaster skill hasn't unlocked as trainable in my fighter's stat screen.

 

Same with magery. For my priest I have 10 int and 9 priest spells, and my mage has 9 int and 9 in mages spells---yet magery is still untrainable for both.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Juan Carlo

Question: Is there a way to train magery and blademaster all on your own? Or can you only use trainers?

I have 6 polearms, 6 melee, and 7 strength, yet my blademaster skill hasn't unlocked as trainable in my fighter's stat screen.

Same with magery. For my priest I have 10 int and 9 priest spells, and my mage has 9 int and 9 in mages spells---yet magery is still untrainable for both.

Bonuses from Divinely Touched don't count when determining eligibility for hidden skills, so that might be it.

[Juan Carlo]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Bonuses from Divinely Touched don't count when determining eligibility for hidden skills, so that might be it.

That makes sense, thanks.

Seems expensive to train blademaster, then. Is it even worth it to train polearms to get blademaster if you aren't using polearms?

I guess it would depend on the damage bonus blademaster gives you. Is it better than the bonus that the "melee" skill gives you?

[Randomizer]

It gets to be relatively cheaper once you get past the expense of unlocking the skill. Eventually you find it cheaper than adding more melee and/or strength.

[Juan Carlo]

So I just got done with the great cave section and my opinion of the game (at least plot wise) has increased. It took its sweet time to get to the point (which I actually kind of admire in a way), but things eventually got more interesting. Same thing with the side quests, they become a lot more interesting once you get to the great cave.

 

Difficulty wise, though, it's still too easy (definitely way easier than "EFTP"). Or maybe it's just that there are too many awesome items in this game (usually AP+ items are rare, for example, but so far there's been enough for me to have both my priest and archer get a second turn, which is nice, but again perhaps a bit cheap).

[Juan Carlo]

I finished. Over all, once I got past the slow start, I enjoyed the game. It was kind of easy on torment....or at least until the very last boss' fortress which was a bit more what I expected from playing a spiderweb game on torment. The last hallway leading up to the final boss was pretty crazy with its constantly spawning Golems and the enemies who can charm you (although the final boss is really easy if you have a priest with divine retribution as it takes the spawning orbs out every turn before they can move).

 

I fired up Avernum 5 and just played the start of it and there already seems to be a huge jump in the quality of plotting/writing between the two, so I'm looking forward to playing it (although I might take a break and play Geneforge 4 first). In Avernum 4 you are just sort of dumped into the world as random adventurers with no backstory and little to draw you in during those early portions of the game before the main plot kicks in (the plot doesn't really get going until you hit the great cave, which can be like 20-30 hours in depending on if you are doing all the sidequests and exploring), but Avernum 5 has more of a set up in terms of your backstory (e.g. you are soldiers for the empire who are dumped into the world and immediately betrayed, setting the plot in motion from there) which is nice and provides a bit more "hook" to the earlier portions of the game.