Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 An overriding "bad guy" to the Geneforge series? If so, who? If not, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Txgangsta Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The overriding bad guy is ethics. What is right when, what is wrong when, and the battle between the lesser of two (or three or four) evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 True enough. So the bad guy is simply "disagreement"? Is that what you're saying? That's probably true. But some of the characters do things that are outrageous in any light, while others do what could be construed as, if not the right thing, then at least "what they had to do" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Geneforge is Jeff's moral dilemma game. All you have are shades of grey. Avernum is more clear cut since you are the underdogs wrongly dumped into the Pit by the evil Empire. There are some moral dilemmas about helping individuals that seem insane, but you can skip them to do the main quest lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 How about shades of red? For the blood which the games so nicely lack? Unfortunately, I haven't played Avernum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I basically agree with TxGangsta and Randomizer that there is no primary villain. Were I forced to pick one, it would be Ghaldring. He sounds like a Bond villain in G3's ending, is a cynical, manipulative magnificent bastard in G4, is the final boss of 4 of the 5 plot paths in G5, and gets overthrown and probably killed even in his own side's ending. While the rebels are presented as a viable moral option to the same extent as the Shapers, Ghaldring himself has to die for there to be peace. This makes him the closest thing to a primary antagonist in the latter 3 games of the series, though even so he isn't to nearly the same extent as Rentar-Ihrno, the Slith Triad, Garzahd, etc. There isn't one to even that limited extent in the first two games. Also, I really like the phrase "the overriding bad guy is ethics." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Ghaldring, then. I'm composing a list of legendary status villains. He qualifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Txgangsta Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, if your going to put Ghaldring on there, you might as well put the Shaper Council to support the other argument's side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The problem being that they remain faceless until G5, thus making them less viable recurring villains than Ghaldring. Alwan might rate a mention, and if we're going for one-off villains, Taygen is about as universally hated as Ghaldring. If anything, the rebels seem to hate Taygen less than the Shapers do, perhaps because they're not as clued in about his "great work." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Txgangsta Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Hmmm, I guess according to the endings of all sects, Taygen is a bad guy. On the list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SpaceCadetHX Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well from a Shapers point of view, wouldn't all "Rogue Creations" be seen as the bad guy or at the very least whoever created them and set them free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Txgangsta Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 See, this is why the bad guy should be Ethics. It fits all points of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Dont do Ethics, kids. Ethics are bad! Doesnt sound quite right when you think of it. -Hides my stash of Ethics- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Not so much a bad guy as a bad thing, canisters are consistently presented in all 5 games as being dangerously addictive and dehumanising. I think that's the closest Geneforge has to moral absolutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SpaceCadetHX Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I like this one. Canisters have made so many people go mad and crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Tirien Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 If there is one thing that everyone (not including the canister addicts) can agree on, its that canisters are bad. Of course, since i'm a trakovite, i'd have to say that the biggest evil in the entire Geneforge series is shaping itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 The issue with portraying the Shaper Council as the evil to counteract Ghaldring is that it's not strictly true. By the time we actually get to meet them, we realize they're actually not all that bad. Rawal's pathetic, Astoria's benevolent, Taygen's crazy, Alwan's fanatic, and the Shapers of the coast are scared and able to be manipulated. Therefore, the Council itself isn't the best choice as villain. If anyone is to be picked as the most evil Shaper, I'd have to say it's Alwan, if only because he embodies all that the Rebels hate about the Shapers. Then again, if ethics are the villain, well... Litalia certainly has the most amount of ethical transformations in the game. Shaper to Rebel, Rebel to Trakovite... Indeed, depending on what period of time you meet her, she can be a foe to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Spiderweb doesn't have series villains, really. A couple of characters get to play villain for a couple of games, but most games don't even have a single focus for all hatred. Geneforge isn't really about fighting people, it's about fighting ideas; for the Shapers, that's their goal. But much of the game is about how there are unreasonable people on all sides, and, more quietly, reasonable people as well. —Alorael, who likes Astoria's ending in part because it isn't all nice and happy. You have to do ugly things to get an imperfect peace. It's very much Geneforge; it's very much not Avernum (until A6, maybe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think the overall trend says "Ghaldring" so he can go on the list. everyone else is only a villain either briefly or incompletely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Ceiling Durkheim Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I'm going to have to opt out of "everyone" here, which I'm pretty sure makes it not everyone by definition. While canisters have a tremendous potential for abuse, I also think that if regulated properly, they can do a huge amount of good. A village healer or the like with access to healing magic could save dozens of lives, and so on. And using only one or two canisters doesn't actually seem to alter one's personality much, as evinced by the fact that PCs in the Geneforge series can use around a half dozen over the course of 3-12 months or so, and not encounter any changes in dialogue or endings. They would have to be strictly regulated, of course, and even then there would probably be a black market. Then again, short of a whole lot of execution and book burning, there would probably be a black market in them regardless of their legality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Tracer Bullet Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Originally Posted By: FnordCola I'm going to have to opt out of "everyone" here, which I'm pretty sure makes it not everyone by definition. While canisters have a tremendous potential for abuse, I also think that if regulated properly, they can do a huge amount of good. A village healer or the like with access to healing magic could save dozens of lives, and so on. And using only one or two canisters doesn't actually seem to alter one's personality much, as evinced by the fact that PCs in the Geneforge series can use around a half dozen over the course of 3-12 months or so, and not encounter any changes in dialogue or endings. They would have to be strictly regulated, of course, and even then there would probably be a black market. Then again, short of a whole lot of execution and book burning, there would probably be a black market in them regardless of their legality. Not just canisters, the whole Shaping discipline. Is Geneforge an allegory, do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: Tirien Dont do Ethics, kids. Ethics are bad! Doesnt sound quite right when you think of it. -Hides my stash of Ethics- XD you made my day just a tad happyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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