Battle Animations

[Arronax]

So this is a new game and at least a partially new engine. You know what i've always wanted to see in a spiderweb game? Overly dramatic, fluid battle animations. I can understand why we haven't seen this so far and what we have does get the point across, but in my mind there's a big difference between a half hearted swipe with a dagger and a huge overhead sword swing. Am i alone in my shallowness?

[The Ratt]

Well, I first of all, I think it would be ineffective to take a half-hearted swipe with a huge sword or do a overhead dagger swing.

 

I don't mind the animations too much. It really makes the game go by faster. I could see so additional animations for special attacks, but watching your character wind up, strike, and withdraw every... single... time... would add a lot of time to the game.

[Erebus the Black]

I agree with the ratt, eventually, what gets me bored in a game like ff is waiting for the random encounters to end as they come so much and you have to wait through the cinematics each time (both starting, end and each blow).

Thankfully emulators have fast-forward button which makes these a lot quicker.

I much rather have the text description of the hit like in castle of the winds so that it doesn't take cpu time, only imagination time, so if it gets to repetitive you can ignore it.

[Arronax]

Originally Posted By: No_More_PLL_Ever

I agree with the ratt, eventually, what gets me bored in a game like ff is waiting for the random encounters to end as they come so much and you have to wait through the cinematics each time (both starting, end and each blow).

Okay.. i may be missing something here but i didn't see either myself or ratt referencing final fantasy or random encounters. I'm just saying that it would be nice to see more elaborate sword swings and spell casting, it's not a request and i'm not demanding anything, if anything it's a humble suggestion.

[ex post slarto]

No_More was making a comparison between Spiderweb games, with few animations and little "forced watching" time, and FF games as an examplar of a game with heavy animation and lots of "forced watching" time.

 

I think the idea is that a huge overhead sword swing, even in Jeff's graphics style, might take an extra second or two to watch. Add that up for everyone in a big battle and suddenly, the game is taking longer even though nothing more is happening.

[Arronax]

Good point, i remember with Blades of Exile huge fights got a little crazy. You could always add an option to speed up the game during combat though.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

I think the idea is that a huge overhead sword swing, even in Jeff's graphics style, might take an extra second or two to watch. Add that up for everyone in a big battle and suddenly, the game is taking longer even though nothing more is happening.

Then there's the practical aspect. For huge swings like that, you'd need a graphic for each frame of the swing, which would not only take up time to display, but also eat a good chunk of space on your hard drive, and maybe even cause the game to need more memory to run. Sure, awesome graphics can make a game look great, but they can just as easily make it into a resource hog.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

I think the idea is that a huge overhead sword swing, even in Jeff's graphics style, might take an extra second or two to watch. Add that up for everyone in a big battle and suddenly, the game is taking longer even though nothing more is happening.

Then there's the practical aspect. For huge swings like that, you'd need a graphic for each frame of the swing, which would not only take up time to display, but also eat a good chunk of space on your hard drive, and maybe even cause the game to need more memory to run. Sure, awesome graphics can make a game look great, but they can just as easily make it into a resource hog.

Well, you might only need three or four animations and your brain would think that it looked continuous. In the old Avernums, there were only four death animation frames, and that appeared continuous. So I don't think that lag would be too much of a problem.

I think the issue here would be that every second spent recoding and writing and animating and testing a new combat system is a second not spent on making the game more interesting or engaging, or writing dialog. I mean, most people wouldn't really be able to tell the difference. They'd just go "Oh, a combat animation. That's nice". However, people would really notice a great plot or great dialog. This is because stellar animation and graphics are commonplace in video games, where a fantastic plot is not something that is exactly frequent.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

This is because stellar animation and graphics are commonplace in video games, where a fantastic plot is not something that is exactly frequent.

Dantius FTW.

It seems like the prettier a game's graphics are, the more likely its plot will suck.

[Randomizer]

If you want more animations go play Eschalon: Book 1 or 2 over at Basilisk Games. In discussing the end of Book 2 there was the following:

 

Quote:

Obviously what we need is a game for which Spiderweb does the story and Basilisk does the game engine.

 

In this topic.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

If you want more animations go play Eschalon: Book 1 or 2 over at Basilisk Games. In discussing the end of Book 2 there was the following:

Quote:

Obviously what we need is a game for which Spiderweb does the story and Basilisk does the game engine.

In this topic.

That would be a wonderful idea, were Basilisk competent enough to design an engine able to rival Spiderweb's. You think we have minimap issues now? Just wait until Jeff goes the way of E:BII and introduces a "catrography" skill. Hoo boy.

Here's a brilliant idea: How about Spiderweb makes the story and does the engine? I know, it sounds radical. But trust me, it's worked for nearly two decades in a market where people barley last a game. Stick with a winning formula when you've got one.

[Alorael at Large]

In any case, Jeff isn't going to pay for an entirely new animation set until he's used up his current graphics and needs to overhaul.

 

—Alorael, who would be happy to have more varied, rather than simply more impressive, attacks. But again, not going to happen, and it's not something that would make him more likely to buy, so Jeff has even less reason to invest in impressiveness.

[ex post slarto]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

If you want more animations go play Eschalon: Book 1 or 2 over at Basilisk Games. In discussing the end of Book 2 there was the following:

Quote:

Obviously what we need is a game for which Spiderweb does the story and Basilisk does the game engine.

Ugh, NO!

What we need is a game for which Spiderweb does the story and game engine, and Basilisk does the graphics. The big "win" factor of Basilisk is that their graphics are much like Exile 3's: they are colorful and crisp, and they really draw you in. They're great.

However, Basilisk's game mechanics are a serious problem. While they have a number of good ideas, the mechanics are significantly less balanced than Exile's were (and with the infinite bless effect that's saying something). In Eschalon, there are a handful of ways you can totally break, or overpower, an aspect of the game, and the skills and abilities are so poorly balanced that most of them are useless while a few of them make you effectively invulnerable when used correctly. SW does not have the most interesting mechanics ever, but Jeff has gotten fairly good at balancing the mechanics, and seems to be stepping away from the A4 low point of lack of diversity in tactical options.

The superiority of SW's storytelling is obvious, though I think the actual plot and atmosphere are fairly hit or miss, and are not consistent.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

The superiority of SW's storytelling is obvious, though I think the actual plot and atmosphere are fairly hit or miss, and are not consistent.

However, Spiderweb has shown the ability to write games with different plots, as opposed to Basilisk, which has not. This is much more important that you would think. Based on exhaustive research and testing, I have determined that the plot to EB:I was functionally identical to EB:II (We're being invaded by monsters, fetch me this jewel.). Hardly a gripping plot to begin with, but the repetition made it worse.

Honestly, that and the fact that the engine is arcane and obtuse are my only complaints with Basilisk. The graphics are shiny and the dialog isn't that bad. The characters are interesting, and all that other jazz.

[ex post slarto]

Well, Basilisk has only produced two games from the same series. There are any number of examples of SW game pairings you could say the same thing about, although admittedly the sheer quantity of dialogue makes it harder to be so crude about it. But plot honestly did not vary much after Exile 3 and Geneforge 1.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Well, Basilisk has only produced two games from the same series. There are any number of examples of SW game pairings you could say the same thing about, although admittedly the sheer quantity of dialogue makes it harder to be so crude about it. But plot honestly did not vary much after Exile 3 and Geneforge 1.

The Exile/ Avernum original trilogy all had different plots. Nethergate, too. G1 and G4 and G5 were all different, too. So was A5. You could make a case for some others, too, bust that's about it. So 8 "different" plots. That's not too shabby.

[Arronax]

So... wow. Totally agree that Basilisk Engine+Spiderweb story would be incredible. As to the plot diversity in Spiderweb games, i've always thought that while they share similar elements and objective driven stories the objectives themselves tend to differ (greatly) to fit the context of the plot.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

...and G4 and G5 were all different, too. So was A5.

G4 is the same basic plot as G3, just with the sides flipped. A5 barely has a plot.

Dikiyoba.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Originally Posted By: Dantius

...and G4 and G5 were all different, too. So was A5.

G4 is the same basic plot as G3, just with the sides flipped. A5 barely has a plot.

Dikiyoba.

No on both counts. G4 is the first game in the geneforge series to introduce the actual war, to the point where you know everything tha was going on from the beginning. G2 and G3 are very much derivatives of G1, in that you are thrust into a dangerous situation with no knowledge of what is actually going on, and you work it out as you go along in the storyline.

A5 very much had a plot, but it was unlike the other plots of the series because it was very much a driven plot. You had a very clear objective (kill Dorikas), and you followed the tunnels until you attain/betrayed that objective. It was probably the most driven game Jeff ever made, and it was kind of hit/miss on whether you like it or not.

In contrast, A1 and A3 and the later parts of A2 were very much sandboxes where you were told "You mission is _____", whether is be "explore" "get revenge on the Empire" "return the Crystal Souls", etc. I can't really speak for A4, since I just started to play it, but it seems that A4 is just a derivative of A3, with "monster plagues on the surface" replaced by "Shade plagues in Avernum".

[ex post slarto]

Perhaps it would help to draw a distinction between plot, meaning exactly what happens in/surrounding a game, and atmosphere, which would include the way that plot is told as a story. G4's story is presented differently from G3's; it's gritty, although it still relies on a chain of successive Bobs. The plot really is the same though. Let's look at just the stripped down, bare plots from each SW game:

 

X1: Explore and defend the land from critical threats (lizardmen and demons) by killing them, take revenge by assassinating the Big Bad, and find an escape route.

X2: Respond to a critical threat (the Vahnatai) through exploration, diplomacy, and good works, and defend the land from a critical threat (the Empire) by securing foreign aid from magical creatures, highly involved sabotage, and assassinating the Big Bad (Garzahd).

X3: Explore and defend the land from critical threats (monster plagues) by killing them and defeating the Big Bad (Rentar-Ihrno).

A4: Defend the land from critical threats (monster plagues) by defeating the Big Bad (Rentar-Ihrno).

A5: Chase a Big Bad, and help one of two groups end up on top of the other (the Darkside Loyalists OR the Prazacian Softies) by assassinating a Big Bad (Dorikas or Redmark).

A6: Defend the land from a critical threat (lizardmen) by killing them, and help one of several groups end up on top of the others through killing and fetching.

 

Nethergate: Help one of two groups end up on top of the other (Nethergate or Shadow Valley Fort) by securing foreign aid from magical creatures.

 

G1: Explore the land, help some groups end up on top of the others (Obeyers, Awakened, Takers; Trajkov, Goettsch), find and decide the fate of an ancient artifact, and find an escape route.

G2: Explore the land, find a missing VIP, and help some groups end up on top of the others (Loyalists, Awakened, Barzites, Takers) through sabotage and killing.

G3: Help one of two groups end up on top of the other (Shapers, Rebels) through sabotage and killing, and take revenge by assassinating a bit part.

G4: Help one of three groups end up on top of the others (Shapers, Rebels, Trakovites) through espionage, sabotage, and killing.

G5: Help one of five groups end up on top of the others (Taygen, Alwan, Astoria, Litalia, Ghaldring) through sabotage and killing.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

G3: Help one of two groups end up on top of the other (Shapers, Rebels) through sabotage and killing, and take revenge by assassinating a bit part.

See, I'd summarize G3 as

G3: Explore the land, figure out the a source of the rogue creation/attackers of Greenwood, aid one group (Shapers, Rebels) by assassination.

There's really a much greater emphasis on "find and kill the perpetrators of the attack on Greenwood" and "eliminate the source of the spawners/monsters" for the first, oh, 2/3 of the game. The Rebel/Shaper dialog only starts when you get past Dhonal's isle. It's nowhere near a war-centric as G4 was.

[ex post slarto]

The Rebel/Shaper dialog exists for the entire game. Litalia's first visit comes when you leave the remains of the school, and if you played G2, it was even more obvious that the destruction of the school wasn't a random act of violence. You have Alwan and Greta and oodles of those annoying forced-choice questions from the very start.

 

And you CAN'T get past Dhonal's isle without participating in the Rebel/Shaper dialog. Heck, one of the two ways you can complete the isle locks you in to siding with the Rebels! Oh yeah, and the second isle. Diwaniya and Lankan. Lots of forced dialog about the Rebels there.

[Monroe]

There are really only so many plots that fit well with a given game engine. But no matter what you do, it's probably been done before, so the real question is (and this goes for anyone making games, writing books, or filming movies) can you make it feel fresh? Jeff does this and does it well. It's what keeps us all coming back for more.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Monroe

There are really only so many plots that fit well with a given game engine. But no matter what you do, it's probably been done before, so the real question is (and this goes for anyone making games, writing books, or filming movies) can you make it feel fresh? Jeff does this and does it well. It's what keeps us all coming back for more.

There are only 37 stories and Shakespeare wrote all of them.

[ex post slarto]

To take things up a notch, Walter Kaufmann said: "Great poetry often deals with hackneyed themes. Sophocles and Shakespeare chose well-known stories, Goethe wrote on love, Dostoevsky on murder. Yet what is new each time is not merely the language. The poet's passion cracks convention: the chains of custom drop; the world of our everyday experience is exposed as superficial appearance; the person we had seemed to be and our daily contacts and routines appear as shadows on a screen, without depth; while the poet's myth reveals reality."

 

Ursula LeGuin: "Fantasy is true, of course. It isn't factual but it is true. Children know that. Adults know it too, and that is precisely why many of them are afraid of fantasy. They know that its truth challenges, even threatens, all that is false, all that is phony, unnecessary, and trivial in the life they have let themselves be forced into living. They are afraid of dragons, because they are afraid of freedom."

 

Does Jeff do that? At times, I think so. But definitely not all the time.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

A5 very much had a plot, but it was unlike the other plots of the series because it was very much a driven plot. You had a very clear objective (kill Dorikas), and you followed the tunnels until you attain/betrayed that objective. It was probably the most driven game Jeff ever made, and it was kind of hit/miss on whether you like it or not.

The problem is that "find Dorikas" is all the plot A5 has. There are a few Darkside ambushes and plots, but most of the game is dominated by random obstacles. The game is mostly padding.

Dikiyoba.

[Alorael at Large]

I think if we wanted great plots, we largely wouldn't be playing games. Or reading very many novels. Or watching a lot of movies, honestly. All plots get recycled when you break them down into bits as small as Slarty did.

 

Spiderweb does well in the storytelling. Sort of. The characters aren't always compelling or even present. In fact, many of the best pieces of writing are narration about inanimate things or collections of people rather than individuals. It works, though. Spiderweb makes games that, for all their lack of graphical glory, create scenes and worlds very well. I think that's Spiderweb's strength. Call it atmosphere, or something, but that's what it is. Scenery.

 

—Alorael, who still remembers the description of the Great Cave from when he first stepped into it way back in E1, a good sixteen years ago. And most of Dark Waters, particularly the part where you've just gone down the last set of falls and your party is tired, hungry, and stuck. The Howling Depths manage to evoke some of that. It's a good thing.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

The problem is that "find Dorikas" is all the plot A5 has. There are a few Darkside ambushes and plots, but most of the game is dominated by random obstacles. The game is mostly padding.
Dikiyoba.

Really? Oh come on. Most games are mostly padding, if not almost entirely padding. Just because it's padding dosen't make it bad. Take the Dark River from A/X 2. It's an amazing, interesting, and thrilling ride under Avernum through a land that' wild and unexplored. It keeps you on the edge of your seat the whole time. It also has absolutley no relevance to the plot whatsoever besides the vahnatai that meets you at the beginning and the ambush at the end. That dosen't mean that it should be eliminated by any means. The same goes for the vast majority of A/X 3. No bearing on the plot, and dozens of dozens of filler towns that do nothing but add to the atmosphere and feel of the size of the game. That's crucial. (In the beginning, I really, really didn't like this, but it did grow on me. A bit.) Or look at Geneforge 1. You could eliminate the entire NW segment of the island (if you moved Gottesch somewhere else), and nothing would be lost- it has no plot relevance. Filler. Does this mean it's a detriment to the game? Of course not- it has a great atmosphere, enjoyable combat, and even the GREAT SECRET. Filler isn't bad, especially when you remember to intersperse "filler" with "plot"- in A5 this would be Ruth attacking you in the Drake Pillars, the ambush at the Howling Depths, the encounter in the Dark River, etc.

What is bad about filler is if the game is all filler except the very beginning and the very end. But I don't think SW has ever made a game that has that much filler- not even A5 comes close, despite what you say.

[ex post slarto]

The dozens and dozens of filler towns add to the atmosphere, but not in a positive way.

 

I think there is another useful distinction to be made between "meaningful" and "filler". Those dozens and dozens of towns are filler atmosphere; the description of the Great Cave in Exile 1 on the other hand was meaningful atmosphere. Similarly, the murder of Shanti in Geneforge 2 was meaningful plot, while the sprite temporarily stealing the Contract in the Ruined Hall in Nethergate was total filler.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Similarly, the murder of Shanti in Geneforge 2 was meaningful plot, while the sprite temporarily stealing the Contract in the Ruined Hall in Nethergate was total filler.

Death is permanent, and can't be reversed (except for PC's, of course), so killing off characters seems to be a decision that's not made before careful thought and writing. You can't write a game, and then go back and say "Well, it's too short, so I think I'll kill of x central character in the opening cutscene" without a major rewrite. However, you can say "Well, it's too short, so I think I'll have x central object stolen and have the PC go fetch it" and then just add a few quests without altering the rest of the game at all (except maybe a dialog option in a few characters).

[Alorael at Large]

Shanti could have been kidnapped and the plot would have been driven just as well, although of course the payoff would have to be tweaked a bit. The sprites could set the contract on fire and the game could substitute retribution for retaking. Okay, contracts can be rewritten, but Dolojan could be killed by the sprites and you could hunt them down and present their corpses to some faerie officials to prove that you've done the right thing.

 

—Alorael, who thinks there's a difference between the filler of the sprites stealing the contract (who actually serve a purpose in that they show you that the sidhe aren't all on the same page about the contract) and the filler of a few dozen towns with Merry in them. The towns are filler that not only take time but that take time without providing any meaningful content. At least sprites give you some dialogue and a dungeon.

[Student of Trinity]

In twenty-first century armies they still make soldiers master foot drill, marching and turning and swinging rifles around in unison on command. Two hundred years ago that was all vital battlefield tactics; I dunno why the heck they continue to do it today, but they're awfully fussy about it still.

 

Anyway, once a body of recruits has really gotten it together, at some point a grizzled old sergeant-major will tell them the basic secret: you can march out into the middle of the parade square and defecate, as long as you do it smartly. It's not what you do, it's how you do it.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

In twenty-first century armies they still make soldiers master foot drill, marching and turning and swinging rifles around in unison on command. Two hundred years ago that was all vital battlefield tactics; I dunno why the heck they continue to do it today, but they're awfully fussy about it still.

I'm sure the reason is to just build discipline or instill respect of authority or something like that. I find it very hard to believe that a functional modern army would keep such a enormous timesink for the recruits without having a pretty good reason for doing so (even if they didn't tell the recruits their reason for it).

[waterplant]

I guess it's about developing parts of the brain that deal with detail, listen - response function, focus, attention (ptp), etc. Similar to how learning intricate writing styles or long division is supposed to train or stimulate the intellect.

[Student of Trinity]

Mmm, mainly I think it gets people used to doing things together, and to listening for commands. It's a skill that nobody has previously mastered, that isn't trivial, but isn't really difficult, either. It's a team-building exercise for a group to get it together, together. There are tricks to this, too. Drill spaces are placed at slightly higher elevation from the rest of the camp, when at all possible, because walking uphill makes you clumsy, and marching downhill is smooth and easy. So the troops always feel awkward at the start of a drill lesson, and proud at the end.

 

The other thing is that good drill needs alertness. You have to always be listening for the next word of command, and even for the cadence of syllables within a single word that lets you know when to actually move. That's the half of military discipline that people don't think of, and it's the half that really needs training: not just that you do what you're told when you're told, but that you're always listening to be told. It's not that those soldiers who respond so fast to an order have become mindless creatures of reflex. Quite the reverse, actually. They respond so fast because they were listening for the command.

 

There's also an art to giving drill commands. A bad command can make crack troops look like idiots. Volume is important, but it's mostly pacing and timing. Giving the command 'HALT!' at the moment when the troops' right legs are passing their left ensures that everyone will halt together. A little bit later, and the dopey guys won't have enough time to react; a little bit earlier, and the flinchy guys will stop a pace too soon.

 

So it's all fine stuff, from a military point of view. Maybe you can just say that in some respects battlefield tactics haven't really changed since ancient Rome. I really only wonder why this particular training vehicle is so persistent, why it hasn't been replaced with something else. But armies are pretty conservative. They tend not to fix anything until it's obviously broken.

[ex post slarto]

Originally Posted By: Of Probity

Shanti could have been kidnapped and the plot would have been driven just as well, although of course the payoff would have to be tweaked a bit.

I have to disagree here. Shanti's death provides potentially significant motivation for the player. Of course, being Geneforge, it's up to the player how to react to it, but I found it to be one of the few moments in Geneforge that actually managed to evoke some kind of emotion at all.

Quote:

the filler of the sprites stealing the contract (who actually serve a purpose in that they show you that the sidhe aren't all on the same page about the contract)

Actually, you've just seen that, rather laboriously, in the form of the Crones. The sprites really don't serve any purpose at all besides a flimsy excuse for a (not very interesting) dungeon crawl that is one of the handful of required excursions in Nethergate.

[Synergy]

Aren't all Spiderweb games essentially an excuse for making dungeon crawls?

 

-S-

[ex post slarto]

Yes, but some excuses are better than others, and some dungeon crawls are better than others. For example, ( Akhronath #2 / Angierach ) was a good dungeon crawl with a good excuse.

[elemental]

Originally Posted By: Arronax

[..]You know what i've always wanted to see in a spiderweb game? Overly dramatic, fluid battle animations. I can understand why we haven't seen this so far and what we have does get the point across, but in my mind there's a big difference between a half hearted swipe with a dagger and a huge overhead sword swing. Am i alone in my shallowness?

Even a simple walk needs be rendered in all directions. Add to these a sword swing animation of ~8 frames in all directions.. It would look cool if it could be done...

Time required for rendering the frames is short, but what to render?

Who will do the animations, which must look good and have the feeling of adventure?

Even making a simple walk-cycle look good and communicate the mighty adventure is very hard.

Swings with various weapon types - sword, staff, Scythe - requires a lot of time and a pro animator, who needs a nice sum as payment.

If the designer decides you can bash with a shield or throw weapons... it's an additional big expense of money. Time is not really a factor in case of professional animators since they work fast, rather it is the communication that is hard, telling them, that their work must be changed a little bit to reflect the mood of Avadon. Some pro's might lose patience with the whole project if their work is not bought fast, especially if the buyer is not a big company. Who looks up to whom? Prestige problems.

Finding a good young animator almost on the level of pro's is hard, because he might quickly realize he can make a lot more money at a big company with the same amount of work.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

There's also an art to giving drill commands. A bad command can make crack troops look like idiots.

I immediately thought of Alec Baldwin on SNL screaming "TAKE THE SHAWWWWWWWWT!!!" at a couple of sniper trainees.

[Masquerade]

How about a compromise? The characters could have a "battle pose" and a "peace pose". For example when your character has a spear equiped they hold it upright at all times and stand in a still relaxed way, even when in battle mode, but if a battle pose was introduced your character would adopt a more battle ready pose eg shield raised, spear pointed forwards, legs braced ect. It would not be too difficult (at least i think) and you could still use the old "relaxed" attacks for use in peace mode. This feature was used in the first avernum trilogy engine and i quite miss it.

[Shaper Tristan]

Originally Posted By: Masquerade

and you could still use the old "relaxed" attacks for use in peace mode. This feature was used in the first avernum trilogy engine and i quite miss it.

If I'm not mistaken, avadon will be in the geneforge engine so there will be no "peace mode" attacks.

[Roy Dest]

As for the original post:

We do not need perfect animations to get the point across, the point being a real attack. We can have just a single frame of attack to make it look dangerous.

 

But that single frame must be the middle of an aggressive slash with a sword, not a half-hearted swipe with a dagger.

 

It doesn't matter how poorly or shortly animated the attack is, but it must look like a real attack would at its most dangerous moment.

 

Many artists (in the animated cartoon business etc) just give up on animating the attacks, because they are presumed to be too fast and dangerous to be displayed smoothly, they just draw a white blade trail and the blade in the middle or at the end of a chop. And it works, our mind fills in the blanks.

 

Why is the Spiderweb Soft graphics so badly animated? If you look at the combat animation, the character stabs with sword, but will not move the torso! Not one bit. All the move is done just with one arm. This is why it looks totally unconvincing and lame.

 

This is not a criticism of drawing skills, but empathy and observation. I love the Spiderweb games, they are superb in many aspects. But the visual aspect is drawn by someone with very little visual imagination. Two combatants fencing do not stand still and upright like planks! A combat has its choreography and a game should at least symbolically follow it. (just look at the old Hercules serial with Kevin Sorbo if you can't imagine it)

So now we have quite smooth regular animations of characters, who almost don't move their whole body. Writhe writhe. Swipe swipe.

I say, a single frame animation of 32X32 pixels in games like Helherron filled me with more excitement than 3D rendered animations in Avernum 6.

Even the older Avernum trilogy was better, the combat graphics had something of what I say plus was so primitive, that my mind was able to fill in the blanks...