A6 - Anti-climactic ending? [spoilers]

[Ironweed]

Am I the only one who found the ending of A6 to be a little... anti-climactic? I honestly wasn't expecting the game to end where it did. Being sucked into the portal was unexpected and exciting, but then... The End. What? What about Melanchion? I was totally looking forward to betraying him! And what about curing the Blight? Not to mention the Vahnatai colony - after refusing to sack Tenevra I was hoping for some diplomatic solution. But no, nothing.

 

I guess your main objective had been to repair the Great Portal all along? Seriously, your last mission was to act as bodyguard for some crystal-workers! That's not very epic, to say the least. And the boss battle at the end (I guess I have to call it that) was really easy too. I think the Infernal Lord managed to do a total of 15 damage to my party before it was killed...

 

Well, that's enough whining. At least the game brought some conclusion to what has been a truly great series. Thanks to Jeff for mentioning Upper Avernum and Valorim in the ending!

[Earth]

based on previous games ending was unusual and final fight was easier than some other boss-fights on game.

[Øther]

Personally, I think of the final fight as all the fighting you do while the workers are hauling the crystal. Yes, it was easy (just long), but, considering some games I have played, this is still a good last fight. Also, to me, the ending was satisfying. Even though the blight wasn't cured, I was given a feeling that, after all the work I did, I managed to bring safety and stability to Avernum. The only thing that I didn't really like about it was that the PCs were removed from Avernum and never returned.

[waterplant]

Originally Posted By: Seaweed

after refusing to sack Tenevra I was hoping for some diplomatic solution. But no, nothing.

That's an interesting point - genuine diplomatic solutions are often overlooked or undervalued in gaming. As well as providing an interesting alternative to wiping the floor with anyone non-Avernite, diplomatic outcomes add to the narrative in that the fledgling society is evolving and is established enough to wield strong diplomacy. Rewarding this could surpass looting a potential 'enemy'.

Maybe Avadon will head this direction.

[Triumph]

Geneforge certainly offered opportunities in this area, with many instances throughout the series where the use of diplomacy (Leadership skill) would allow one to avoid a fight (and still receive experience and sometimes even other reward).

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Triumph

Geneforge certainly offered opportunities in this area, with many instances throughout the series where the use of diplomacy (Leadership skill) would allow one to avoid a fight (and still receive experience and sometimes even other reward).

In Geneforge, there were multiple ways to achieve a goal0 you could talk you ways through a guard, battle in, sneak in with mechanics, join a faction to get in and then backstab them, or even do a quest for an NPC who'd clue you in on an alternate way in. The later Avernums would maybe give you two of the other options, and I guess that just kind of turned me off to them. Ah well.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Seaweed

Am I the only one who found the ending of A6 to be a little... anti-climactic? I honestly wasn't expecting the game to end where it did. Being sucked into the portal was unexpected and exciting, but then... The End. What? What about Melanchion? I was totally looking forward to betraying him! And what about curing the Blight? Not to mention the Vahnatai colony - after refusing to sack Tenevra I was hoping for some diplomatic solution. But no, nothing.

If you want to betray Melanchion, it's possible to do it, but you have to take the initiative yourself (by hitting him repeatedly with swords after he tells you he's delivered the crystal to the portal). Successfully killing him does have a major effect on the ending, but, uh, good luck actually doing it.

[So Much Killing]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Successfully killing him does have a major effect on the ending, but, uh, good luck actually doing it.

He's not so tough. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. He puts his pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. Etc.

But killing him only creates a variation in the ending narrative--it doesn't change the gameplay at all. I agree with the OP that the end was kind of anti-climactic. I think it would have been better to save the Scourge quest and have the dragon give something else, like kill Gladwell (which you could choose to do or not). Then after you fix the portal, the King says to you, "Okay, we've saved the people, but if Avernum is to survive, we have to kill the Scourge." And Jeff could have expanded the Scourge area a bit to maybe make it like three separate areas, each with its own defenses. Then when you're done, yippee!, you've saved Avernum. But you get sucked into some kind of vortex, find yourself in a new cave, maybe have another battle with something, and then find yourself in Upper Avernum or the surface, and the narrative pretty much plays out as it does now. That's just one possibility, but it does, I think, address the slightly unsatisfying nature of the current ending.

[Earth]

if Jeff had added more areas to play then game might been out now instead months ago.

[Dikiyoba]

Dikiyoba liked the final battle, but the ending text, especially the part dealing with the fate of the party, was mediocre. Dikiyoba is not sure why Dikiyoba didn't like it much.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted By: So Much Killing

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Successfully killing him does have a major effect on the ending, but, uh, good luck actually doing it.

I think it would have been better to save the Scourge quest and have the dragon give something else, like kill Gladwell (which you could choose to do or not). Then after you fix the portal, the King says to you, "Okay, we've saved the people, but if Avernum is to survive, we have to kill the Scourge." And Jeff could have expanded the Scourge area a bit to maybe make it like three separate areas, each with its own defenses. Then when you're done, yippee!, you've saved Avernum. But you get sucked into some kind of vortex, find yourself in a new cave, maybe have another battle with something, and then find yourself in Upper Avernum or the surface, and the narrative pretty much plays out as it does now. That's just one possibility, but it does, I think, address the slightly unsatisfying nature of the current ending.

Something like this, yeah. I didn't like the way the game kept changing focus all the time. First the game was about solving the Blight, then about stopping the invasion of the Horde, and finally about dealing with Melanchion. In the end, none of these problems were solved in a satisfying way. Well, you did get to kill the Scourge, but that was an optional quest, and there was absolutely nothing you could do about the Blight or Melanchion. The game teases you with the ability to change the future of Avernum, but in the end nothing you can do has any real impact. Essentially, the nation of Avernum is doomed before you even step out of the Castle Food Depot. Which makes your heroic struggle seem somewhat futile.

[Lilith]

You were told for the entire game that the Blight was just one of those things that happens and has to be lived with, not solved. I think a miraculous cure for the Blight would have cheapened it, honestly.

[So Much Killing]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

You were told for the entire game that the Blight was just one of those things that happens and has to be lived with, not solved.

I don't agree with that. You do one game-long quest in which you collect blighted mushrooms from four different areas of Avernum, each of which seems to promise some hope of curing the blight. You also do a significant quest in Patrick's Tower to help a wizard with her experiments to cure the blight. There's a lot of talk and promise that a cure can be found, or that alternate mushrooms can be developed, or that the sunspire might work (once you purge the demon who is inhabiting it) and other crops could be grown. So there's a lot of hope that your actions can save Avernum. And it's kind of disappointing that all you manage to achieve is to fix the portal so most people can leave. I guess you help stop the Horde, too, which is pretty good, but at the end your homeland is a shell of its former self, you're dispossessed, and the leadership choices are a brainwashing dragon, an amoral wizard, or a depressed, ineffectual king.

It's just a little unsatisfying. Fun, but unsatisfying.

[Telanos]

Originally Posted By: Seaweed

Am I the only one who found the ending of A6 to be a little... anti-climactic?

Nope. A6 left me feeling like I hadn't really accomplished all that much.

Previous games permitted a 'not on my watch!' attitude to problems, where you were able to deal with problems that cropped up.

Demon about to break free of prison? Send it packing to the infernal realms! Empire invading? Punish them by killing their emperor. Monster plagues ravaging the land? Exterminate the pests. Got a problem? Not on my watch!

But this time around.... Mushroom disease, invading sliths and an upstart dragon? Too bad. Live with it.

[Earth]

who would cure blight or make new mushrooms or make sunspire to work? Solberg is dead, X went to other dimension (we might see him at Avadon if Jeff wants to tease us), TC is in chaos as usually, Gladwell isn't interested about curing blight, other mages aren't anywhere near same level as X and Solberg. As long as portal works Gladwell doesn't need other food source than lizard meat and fruits and what is delivered via portal, Mel's supporters eat same things (-food delivered via portal) and maybe Giants and/or Sliths.

[Lilith]

Avernum 6's promotional campaign literally promised "the end of Avernum"

 

i'm sort of baffled that people are disappointed that that's what they got

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Avernum 6's promotional campaign literally promised "the end of Avernum"

I think everyone understands that - it's just that making unsolvable problems the focus of your story doesn't make for a very satisying story. Even though A6 was about the end of Avernum, your adventures were not. Indeed, your adventures were essentially about preventing the end of Avernum; every single thing you did in the game was towards that end. Only there was nothing you could do. At times A6 felt more like a skillfully crafted slide-show than anything else; you ran from place to place witnessing the end of Avernum but being frustratingly unable to do anything about it.

The Slith Horde-quests were especially frustrating. I killed the leaders of the Horde, I wiped the floor with the Scourge, I pretty much eradicated every single hostile Slith on the map - but the Slith Horde still conquers Northern Avernum in the end?? That's just unfair. I don't mind Avernum coming to an end, but at least let me feel like I have accomplished something.

[Lilith]

my favourite author is franz kafka and my favourite playwright is samuel beckett so possibly i'm just perverse

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Avernum 6's promotional campaign literally promised "the end of Avernum"

i'm sort of baffled that people are disappointed that that's what they got

I took that to mean that the entire country would, or might, be destroyed, like total cave in, fire, mass demonic invasion. I thought maybe the characters would have a chance to prevent that. Instead the ending was in the middle.

I appreciate that Jeff's games do not always offer crystal clear outcomes, and that makes the games more sophisticated and realistic. On the other hand, this is fantasy, and I wanted a chance to fix the portal, drive out the horde, cure the blight, and leave Avernum intact for eternity.

The saga of the PCs in the Avernum games has usually been of a "wrong place, right time" nature -- like, I don't know, Han Solo or Kyle Rayner. In A6, it was more of a Raiders of the Lost Ark thing where it seems that, had the PCs never existed, things would have ended up pretty much the same way.

As for the ending text, I didn't like the idea that the PCs never got to return home. But I very much liked the idea of Avernum as an actual existing shadow version of the Empire, serving a mythological, metaphysical, and practical purpose in its continued continued functioning.

[Serene Tempest]

I, for one, liked the ending a lot. One of the biggest detractors for A4, I found, was the changes to the world of Avernum, the world in general being much tamer and overrun with crystal miners seeking fortune. It was plenty realistic given the narrative of the world, but I felt that as a fantasy setting that made it lose something. The Avernum post-A6 was presented as regaining it's wildness. I was a little disappointed that the Horde kept northern Avernum, as the Formelleo area had always been one of my favorite parts, but I suppose you can't have everything. Which may be a decent way of summing up the message of the ending.

 

I did find the final battle to be the easiest and most straight-forward of any of the Avernum games (I never played A1 though). Now what would have been a very interesting battle would be if you had to face the three Horde leaders at the same time. But I think Jeff's blog posts on the difficulty of computer games probably offers some hints as to his decisions about climatic battle difficulty.

[So Much Killing]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

my favourite author is franz kafka and my favourite playwright is samuel beckett so possibly i'm just perverse

Also, you play fantasy RPGs, which kind of seals the deal. Not that anyone here would point out such a thing.

[waterplant]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

I appreciate that Jeff's games do not always offer crystal clear outcomes, and that makes the games more sophisticated and realistic. On the other hand, this is fantasy, and I wanted a chance to fix the portal, drive out the horde, cure the blight, and leave Avernum intact for eternity.

Yes, it seems that happy endings generally fall into the realm of fantasy...