A little advice for a new player to Geneforge 5.[G5]

[Elucifur]

I have played the others and didnt get to play this one yet and I was wondering would the fire creations hold their own throughout the game or would they need backup from the battle/magic creations? I mainly stick with the fryoa in the others and add a cryoa when I am able to, would I be able to use the same play style with fire creations only or need to use others?

[Lilith]

Wait, you keep a fyora and level it up for the whole game?

 

I mean, I guess you can do that, but why?

 

Anyway, it's certainly possible to beat G5 using only fire creations: with the various different creations available, you have a decent balance of fire, cold, magical and physical damage output. Sometimes there are times when you'd benefit from having battle or magic creations for support, but it isn't absolutely necessary, even on the higher difficulty settings.

[Elucifur]

Until I can get a drayk or cryodrayk but yeah I do keep them around until around the end. They are pretty handy when you have a pack of them mixed with fryoas and cryoas and some drayks/cryodrayks added in them.

 

As for why, they do have a nice damage output for fire/ice along with some melee damage.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Battle creations are the most powerful in this game, but fire creations are very doable, especially on the lower difficulties.

 

As for keeping around your initial creations, this too depends on your difficulty. If you want a challenging play through, I highly doubt you'll be able to keep them alive.

[ex post slarto]

Battle creations are not that much more powerful than other creations. They are probably the best set to focus on overall, but it's really just the War Trall that sets them apart in terms of power, and it is only a little bit better than the Gazer. Clawbugs are nice, but more due to their low cost than any excessive power. If you were going to pick one creation from each tier regardless of its type, you'd likely go with magic or fire creations for 3 of the 5 tiers, and you could do so for all 5 without a significant drop in power.

[Elucifur]

They are? And I plan to play through torment with a pack of fire creations mainy fryoas/roamers untill I get some 3rd/4th tier creations to see how they last if they dont last long ill add some points into battle and magic shaping for support creations.

 

I think I might be able to keep them alive before runing into the unbound then after that they might start dying off.

[Elucifur]

Originally Posted By: Quantifier Bloat

Battle creations are not that much more powerful than other creations. They are probably the best set to focus on overall, but it's really just the War Trall that sets them apart in terms of power, and it is only a little bit better than the Gazer. Clawbugs are nice, but more due to their low cost than any excessive power. If you were going to pick one creation from each tier regardless of its type, you'd likely go with magic or fire creations for 3 of the 5 tiers, and you could do so for all 5 without a significant drop in power.

Why only the 3 out of the tiers?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Elucifur

Why only the 3 out of the tiers?

Artilas are generally agreed to be better than fyoras in first tier. Vlish are better than roamers for second tier, although a levelled-up cryoa is on par with a vlish. In fourth tier, kyshakks are pretty mediocre: wingbolts are better in most ways, and rotghroths are at least comparable. In fifth tier, drakons are overpriced and underpowered, and both of the other fifth-tier creations are better. The only tier where fire creations have a clear advantage is third tier, since drayks are really good and alphas and glaahks aren't.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

although a levelled-up cryoa is on par with a cryodrayk.

FYT

[Lilith]

hey, you, unblock me on AIM already, i forgive you for bein' a jerk

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

hey, you, unblock me on AIM already, i forgive you for bein' a jerk

Wait, what?

[Elucifur]

Hmm I see and how does each par up later in the game when going only fire/battle/magic creations only? Which has the most difficulty later on? Against the higher tier creations and against either the shaper/rebels forces?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Elucifur

Hmm I see and how does each par up later in the game when going only fire/battle/magic creations only? Which has the most difficulty later on? Against the higher tier creations and against either the shaper/rebels forces?

Going pure battle is easy enough because you have War Tralls, and very few enemies are immune to physical damage even if a lot of them resist it. Pure fire isn't too bad because you have Drakons for fire damage, Kyshakks for magical damage (even if they suck) and Cryodrayks for ice damage. Pure magic means you're basically just doing magical damage, which makes fights against magic-resistant enemies sort of long and boring, but Gazers are tough enough that you can probably still get by with nothing but magic creations.

[Elucifur]

Hmm sounds fun and challangeing, but I think I might stick with the fryoa/cryoa of drayk/cryodrak pack untill while testing each of the other creations and see how they pair up with others.

 

Thanks for some advice.

[A less presumptuous name.]

The reason I prefer battle creations is that you can get clawbugs ridiculously early. This lets them level up and remain superior to their contemporaries for quite some time. Also, you can grab a canister for tralls soon after arriving in the Southern map. There is just a brief time when you need something else.

[Alorael at Large]

Actually, for a battle creation user those first fyoras can be important, because thahds are just lackluster. Battle alphas/betas are also unimpressive, and clawbugs are good only in swarms. Battle really shines in the later parts of the game, but that's when the difficulty starts cranking up, and having rotghroths and tralls is very wortwhile.

 

—Alorael, who thinks G5 is probably the most balanced game of the series for the three types. None are hopeless (like battle shaping largely was before G5), none are overpowered, and all of them can work just fine, although fire shaping can be rough in the endgame.

[Hypnotic]

I would like to point out that Rothdizons (Pardon spelling) are a good creation if over priced. Totally Immune to Acid/Posion, Large HP, Can attack twice, Inflict Acid whilst attack, and a good chance of quick action. To top it all of you can have them before you even meet Ghaldring or head into that part of the map.

 

Apart from having poor magical resistance they are my favorite creation.

[Elucifur]

Hmm well every geneforge game I've played I normaly put 10 points into fire shaping for first playthrough because noramly you get about 3 fryoa points before long and can get a cryoa and have them in you're party early on which helps in the long run at times and true they are going to have problems against late in the game but thats when they get reabsorbed and replaced with drayks/cryodrayks maybe a drakon/ur-drakon if i have enough for them.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Wait, you keep a fyora and level it up for the whole game?

I mean, I guess you can do that, but why?

Masochism?

---

Still, cryoas will hold up fairly well and keeping one or two around for the entire game is viable. The only real difference between a cryoa and a cryodrayk is that the cryodrayk has cold resistance and costs a lot more essence. I generally have no problems with essence (seriously, if you're a strong shaping class, be sure to pump your intelligence), so I generally have one cryodrayk around.

Also, if you're going to compare fire creations to battle and magic creations, note that ten points of fire shaping will throw the results off if you don't have comparable battle or magic shaping skills.

---

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Kyshakks for magical damage (even if they suck)

Dikiyoba hasn't used kyshakks in G5. Do they suck because they still miss as much as they did in G4?

[Elucifur]

Well my other playthroughs with pure battle/magic normaly around 10 points into fire/battle/magic shaping tends to give enough of a boost they hold their own fairly well and around 10-15 points into int gives me enough essence to have a pack of creations to do some damage.

 

Also about the kyshakks I never used them much didnt care much for their attacks, only made one to absorb most of the damage back in G4 while the drayks/cryodrayks did most of the damage.

[Acky]

Quote:

Dikiyoba hasn't used kyshakks in G5. Do they suck because they still miss as much as they did in G4?

I never had any trouble with them hitting. IMO, its because they're lingering damage and the innitial attack still aren't quite as useful as an all out blast from a Wingbolt.

[Zummi]

Don't forget to tackle Lerman's Pass as soon as you can!

[Elucifur]

Originally Posted By: meAzuma

Don't forget to tackle Lerman's Pass as soon as you can!

Why if I may ask?

[Randomizer]

One of the best swords for early in the game and lots of other loot. You may want to split this up into several attempts because the Gazer is really nasty.

[Elucifur]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

One of the best swords for early in the game and lots of other loot. You may want to split this up into several attempts because the Gazer is really nasty.

I just got passedLerman's Pass and the gazer fell to my pack of cryoas/fryoas that I have kept with me and this is on torment the playthrough I'm doing. I must of missed that sword I'll head back and get it.

Will anything give them trouble now that I'm in the storm plains?

[Acky]

That possessed Captain has it. Check where you killed the body.

 

There are a lot of magic dealing enemies in the Storm Planes, so they are vulnerable. But if they've made it through this far *shrugs*

[Elucifur]

Ah him I forgot where I killed him and true magic damage has always been a problem for them I'll upgrade them or add some higher tier creations into the pack.

 

Btw when do I get my first drayk at?

[Randomizer]

You have to visit Stormhold first and talk to Alwan to get permission. Then visit the Fort Defiance to the east and Shaper Alexie will train you.

[Elucifur]

Ah cool atleast im close to one already.

 

Also when can I make cryodrayks? Another trainer or a canister?

[Randomizer]

Podling Crossing has a canister, but you have to fight a drayk to get it. It's in the north part of the zone.

 

The other requires that you join the Trakovites and do their second quest to visit the Foundry Repositories.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Elucifur

I just got passedLerman's Pass and the gazer fell to my pack of cryoas/fryoas that I have kept with me and this is on torment the playthrough I'm doing. I must of missed that sword I'll head back and get it.

I wasn't able to defeat the gazer that early with battle creations. I guess I'll have to try a fire creation run through when I get back to playing.
What strategy did you use?

[Dantius]

You have to draw the gazer out of the room where it summons stuff.

[Zummi]

You can defeat Talis-Eye with BC early. Use Unstable Thahds against him.

[Elucifur]

Originally Posted By: Master1

I wasn't able to defeat the gazer that early with battle creations. I guess I'll have to try a fire creation run through when I get back to playing.
What strategy did you use?

Well I drew him out of his room really then had my cryoas surround him while my fryoas attacked from a range really he mostly used his melee attack untill near death then he attacked one of my fryoas and killed it so I lost one in that battle but remade it after getting into town for support untill I got my drayks then i absorbed my fryoas and made some drayks to replace them.

Also how does the spell speed/haste work exactly in this game?

[Shaper Tristan]

i think you all are forgeting the ur-drakon, whitch is ridiculouly expensive but quite frankly rocks.

[Acky]

Yeah, but you can't get it til like the last minute, and Rebels can't get it at all. So it's irrelevant.

[Elucifur]

I never muched like the drakon/ur-drakon to costly and they dont seem worth it really.

 

And why can't the rebels get it?

[Randomizer]

Only the rebels that join Ghaldring can't get it. Astoria and Trakovite factions get into Inner Gazaki-Uss for the last canister.

[Elucifur]

Ah alright.

[Dantius]

Don't forget the Eyebeast. Another case where the luster of Ghaldring's faction diminishes by a lot.

[Shaper Tristan]

ive always found it quite ironic that the super powerful illegal creations cannot ever be gained by the rebels.

[Elucifur]

That is a bit strange that they can't gain them. Also I have a question about the spell "haste" is it based on luck or soemthing for the second attact in a turn?

[Randomizer]

Haste and slow are supposed to have a 33% of being active each round they are in effect. Haste will reduce the first 9 AP action to 5 AP when it happens.

[ex post slarto]

I thought slow was a 1 in 4 chance?

[Elucifur]

Ah I see so it's pretty much luck then.