Seasoned Roamer Bhima Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 So, I'm looking to get into Spidweb's popular Geneforge series, but have not been captured by the series yet, after trying Geneforge 5. I'm curious if any fellow Avernum fans who have had success with Geneforge might offer up some suggestions and tips? I found the character design (an lack of party) quite different and didn't adapt too quickly. Thoughts? Cheers to Avernum 6! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody RCCCL Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 True there isn't as many options for character design, but if you miss having a party, always go with shaping, and create your own party when ever you need to. As for tips, there are plenty available if you just poke around the Geneforge forums a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Start with G1 is the only advice I have. It is much more conducive to converts from Avernum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dantius Start with G1 is the only advice I have. It is much more conducive to converts from Avernum. Eh, I didn't really get into the series until G4, thanks to its streamlined engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 The thing is, Geneforge has an entirely different spell system, entirely different spells, and the whole Shaping thing. It's much easier to learn a new game if you only have to deal with 12 spells and 18 creations than like 45 spells and 30 creations. Also, the plot was much more engaging than any other of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 "Entirely different spells" is not true. I mean, yes, it's a different set of spells, and there are a few spells in later Geneforge games that do not have Avernum counterparts. But very few. Edit: That said, I definitely agree that G1 is the place to start and is also the most engaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: Dantius The thing is, Geneforge has an entirely different spell system, entirely different spells, and the whole Shaping thing. It's much easier to learn a new game if you only have to deal with 12 spells and 18 creations than like 40 spells and 30 creations. Also, the plot was much more engaging than any other of the series. FYT I would go with G2. In my humble opinion, it is the superior of the G1 and G2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I personally like Geneforge 3 more than the first two, despite its few major faults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 G3 is too simple. It's just another two-dimensional Avernumlike game. Also: The boat system was a pain Being a pickaxe salesman was NOT cool There are two factions, which sucks It had a cookie-cutter plot, almost identical to the first two, and it was repetitive in places- "Oh look, I need to destroy/repair the source of rogues" The UI was a pain. I want my "End combat" button next to the combat buttons, not way in a corner They reused the G2 crafted artifacts The characters were poor. Wow, it's a mad mage out to kill me at every turn, and also I need to kill my former master. So yeah, G3 is not a good introductory game. Just play G1, as it is vastly superior in every way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 You could just click F to end/begin combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan AnarhIztok2511 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Almost every person will tell you to start with gf1 ... and I won't be an exception. Believe me, I started with gf3 and it was half as interesting as it'd have been otherwise, had I previously played gf1 and gf2. And furthermore, once you get used to gf5's playing system (weight, moves etc.), believe me, it'll be very hard even to start playing gf3, let alone 1 or 2. But, again, if you start from the beginning, you'll notice only improvements in that area as well. And also, I know it's hard to get yourself to playing geneforge, after only playing avernum. I've been there. But trust me, it's worth it. And, besides, Avernum's coming to the end - what other option do you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 You can call it stale, but Geneforge 3 was the only one of the first 3 where I actually felt like I was accomplishing something. It forces you to have an opinion and pick sides, which is how war works in the real world. No matter how you feel, you have to throw your stock with a group and support them as a whole, despite the actions of a questionable few (stupid Lankan). You can say what you want, but Jeff had the forumla down to a science by the third game and it shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Toby-Linn Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I bought all the Geneforge games, and am currently muddling my way through Geneforge 1 right now. Yeah, it is a little tough to get used too....I miss having the inventory space of four characters, lol. But lots of the spells are the same and I love the map! It's so awesome to be able to jump from zone to zone (once the area's cleared of monsters that is ) I wish Avernum had that concept, instead of making my adventurers walk so much. The only other Geneforge game I've really played is G5, where I got through the entire demo section, and I absolutely loved it. However, I feel like I should play the games in order or else I won't get all the references. I've also dabbled in G2 and G3 but I don't think I even got through the demo sections there. I didn't play the Avernum games in order, and I've always felt like I'm missing something. Someday I want to go back and play them all in order, I don't know when I'll have time for that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Enraged Slith Jeff had the forumla down to a science by the third game and it shows. Which is why only G3 and 4, the two poorest games in the series(3 definitly, 4 maybe), actually follow this pattern of forcing you to choose from 2 sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Err, 4 did very well actually. Jeff said so in his blog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 By poor, I mean bad games, not necessarily selling badly. On the other hand, I do believe that he said G1 was his best-selling game, and IMO it's also his best (Haven't played A2, which seems to be the only competitor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 That's not true at all; he's consistently said that the Avernum series sells better than the Geneforge series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 This is the first time I've heard anybody call Geneforge 4 one of the worst of the series. G1 was definitely not Jeff's best-selling game. Avernum 4 was at one point. I'm not sure if Avernum 5 passed it -- probably; I'm pretty sure Geneforge 4 and 5 did not. There's also some standard by which Exile 3 wins the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 1. I said best selling game, not series. 2. From The Bottom Feeder, March 17, 2009: Originally Posted By: Jeff Vogel The original Geneforge, for example, has sold jillions of copies, though we got far less cash for most of those. I have seen Geneforge 1 on many, many online gaming sites-RealArcade, WildTanget, and HP games, for example. I have never seen an Avernum game there. Sure, they only sell for like $10, but you have to figure that they have raked in a large amount of sales, as a loss leader to get gamers hooked. In fact, that was the way I got introduced to the game in the first place- 5 years ago. I would imagine that it's still going strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 You said he said it was his best-selling game. Prove it, please. FWIW, I'm not arguing the fact that G1 is the best Geneforge game -- I whole-heartedly agree with you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 He said it sold lots of copies, not that its a best-seller. Besides, it should be expected that Avernum would fare better then Geneforge. Avernum is in a niche genre. Geneforge is a niche within the niche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Margerine Eclipse G1 was definitely not Jeff's best-selling game. Avernum 4 was at one point. I'm not sure if Avernum 5 passed it -- probably; I'm pretty sure Geneforge 4 and 5 did not. There's also some standard by which Exile 3 wins the title. Yeah, one of Jeff's recent blog entries mentions that A5 sold even better than A4, and A6 is so far selling better still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 It's interesting. In books and often films, you create sequels until attenuation of the fandom results in inability to sell the product. In games, sequels often sell better. I can understand that for games that have iterations, but sequels? I'm baffled. —Alorael, who thinks Avernum is a more accessible generic fantasy than Geneforge. And you really can jump into most Avernums and get playing. Geneforge has a much stronger ongoing plot that you have to follow. Yes, the games give you the nutshell summary, but caring about what happens to the factions drives everything forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Well, games tend to improve technologically at a greater rate than books or even films. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 But not just sequels. All games tend to use better technology, so the comparisons stay equal on average. Games tend to sell better over time in general, I believe, but expanding market share doesn't account for success. —Alorael, who doesn't read any books that don't use the very latest fonts. High-tech paper helps, but he's seen where electronic paper leads and it isn't better books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Okay, next argument: gamers have stronger brand loyalty than moviegoers, because a game involves a larger investment of time and money (so you can watch a dozen movies in a month, but you probably can't play a dozen games unless you have a whole lot of free time). So why do we see this effect with games, but not so much with books, which also require a significant time investment? Possibly because there are simply more books to choose from than games, so book readers have more options to choose from that are likely to be similar to the sort of thing they like. If you really like a particular game, there aren't necessarily a hundred other games out there of similar quality in the same genre. Or maybe books in general just aren't as different from each other as games are, so there's less risk involved in trying something that's not part of a franchise you already know you like. Ooooorrrr, since nobody's actually quoted sales figures in the thread, it's possible we're all working from a false premise and a sequel to a book is actually just as likely to sell more than the original as a sequel to a game is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Archaeolagent Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think Thuryl's hit upon a key point. And I think this happens less with books for several reasons. One: games are often a social phenomenon. This is particularly true among kids and teenagers playing popular games, who will inevitably talk about them at school. So popularity ramps up. For books which become social phenomenon (Harry Potter, Twilight) I suspect the sequels-sell-more may be true. Two: games series are almost always designed so that you can jump in at any point. There is some intentionality to the sales figures going up -- the designers don't want you to have to go back and play the older installments. This is not true in the same way of book series. While it is often possible to start in the middle, and many people do this, if story is the main thing you are getting, and you don't have distractions like game mechanics, it is harder not to feel you are missing something. This also means that somebody who is introduced to, say, Harry Potter today, is as likely as not to start with the first book; if they read a later book and get hooked they might decide to go back and read them in order. However, somebody who plays Final Fantasy XII is highly unlikely to go back and play the original Final Fantasy, and not just because the original release and its system haven't been on the market in 15 years. This is a more extreme case but the same thing applies to somebody who plays Avernum 6. If they go back and try out Avernum 1, maybe they'll love it and buy it -- but quite possibly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody madrigan Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Inequitin regulation implicated in socioeconomic stress response —Alorael, who thinks Avernum is a more accessible generic fantasy than Geneforge. The Avernum games I've played (4, 5, part of 3, still working on 6) seem a lot easier for a casual gamer than the Geneforges I've played (4 & 5). I got through A4 and 5 the first time, but I've never been able to finish G5, even after adjusting the scripts to jack up my character. I'm not sure I finished G4 without cheating either. Don't think so. So anyway, Geneforge seems to require a lot more attention to min-maxing which I hate and suck at, so maybe that's another reason Avernum would be more popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Geneforge's real time system outside of combat is harder to play than Avernum's turn based system. The first time I played Geneforge I was constantly getting attacked by monsters that moved up on me while I was trying to decide what to do next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Monsters nothing. I just find trying to chase down an NPC to chat frustrating when he's moving away from me at exactly the same speed. —Alorael, who would have liked NPCs without urgent travel needs to stop in response to someone waving and yelling to get their attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Quote: —Alorael, who would have liked NPCs without urgent travel needs to stop in response to someone waving and yelling to get their attention. We discovered that there is a perfectly rational explanation for that... Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 That picture is covered in awesomesauce Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Originally Posted By: Ackrovan That picture is covered in awesomesauce Dikiyoba. Yup. Andraste did a good job on the edits. Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Andraste Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 *coughs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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