Ghaldring

Wait, so Strength adds to the % hit. It doesn't say that in the ingame description! "Influences how much you can carry, and how much damage your blows do in combat." But I'll take your word for it, so with no further ado: Sword: Sword bonus (minimum damage) = 16 Strength = 7 Melee = 5 Blademaster = 3 10% to hit enchantment from sword = 2 Overall %to hit = 165. Bow: Bow bonus = 5 Dexterity = 2 Bow skill = 7 Sharpshooter = 0 10% to hit enchantment from sword = 2 5% to hit from elite warrior (?) = 1 Overall %to hit = 85% Edit: Whoops, I forgot that armour substracts from hit chance. My armour subtracts 15 + 5 + 5 = 25 Overall % to hit = 60% That's close to 54%. But where has the other 6% gone? Quote: And why would you ever not be blessed? I'm not blessing myself on purpose, so I can hit less often and thus know the %to hit factor quicker.

Slarty: Quote: Ghaldring is correct about the slith resistances. Of course. I found them in one of your previous posts. Quote: And no, I don't hold those resistances to be particularly valuable. You take weapon damage A LOT more often than you take fire, acid, or poison damage. I'm not so sure I agree with you here. Fire, acid and poison damage play a significant role in A5. Sliths would benefit when fighting slimes and fire breathing monsters (lava bats, fire lizards, dragons), and weapons which drip venom or acid. Quote: The resistances are nice, but don't make a big difference. If you are min-maxing skill points, the bows bonus is slightly better. Now add in the fact that Sliths lose about 2 levels compared to nephils AND act in a different order in battle due to gymnastics -- which can be extremely irritating -- and the case is closed. You've almost sold me on the usefulness of bows, but I'm still doubtful. My lvl 13 nephil is currently killing goblins in Tranquility. He has bows 7, melee 5, blademaster 3, and dexterity 2. The Yew Bow and Radiant Blade (+10% to hit) are equipped. Yet his chance to hit is only 54%, while he always hits with a melee attack. What gives? My combined melee and blademaster skill is only one higher than my bows skill, yet I'm hitting far more often with melee than bows. Note that the Radiant Blade adds the 10% bonus to hit to both the Radiant Blade, as well as ranged attacks. I've tested it. By the way, the 'Elite Warrior' trait adds a +5% chance to hit on ranged attacks for my nephil. Is that normal?

Sliths receive a 20% bonus to fire, acid and poison.

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba I usually only have one or two save files, but I save for everything. Before stealing something, before picking a door, before selling things, before entering a teleportal, before talking to someone, before reading a book, before looting an altar, before training, after training, after fighting a group of monsters, after doing some inventory management, etc. Dikiyoba does not like redoing things. Or being stuck with a misclick. Pathetic, just pathetic. Don't you take any risks? Making mistakes, and then dealing with them, makes a game more realistic, engaging, challenging and enjoyable. Excessive use of Power Word: Reload comes close to being cheese.

Slarty, do you think that spending all those skill points to access riposte is a sound min-max strategy? And is the bonus %hit and damage the nephil receive to ranged attacks more valuable than the inherent damage resistances the slith receive (on torment mode, that is)? By the way, what sort of party did you use to beat Dorikas/General Redmark?

Alorael: Quote: Without QA, sliths have a lower base damage output and no shield. But with bows, you need to sink skill points into dexterity. Dexterity is only good for bows, whereas strength increases your damage with melee weapons, as well as allowing you to wear heavier armour. But then, I don't know how much strength is needed to wear the heaviest armour in the game.

Thuryl: Quote: You can't have all your characters attacking from range, But you can have all your characters attacking with ranged weapons. Unlike D&D, I don't think Avernum mechanics penalize you for attacking monsters point blank with a ranged weapon. Personally, I think it's a pity that Jeff doesn't incorporate more sophisticated mechanics for ranged attacks, as seen in Fallout. Distance and lighting should effect ranged accuracy.

Wow, this turned out to be an excellent thread. Thanks Alorael, Thuryl and Slarty, you've done quite a bit to convince me that archery might not suck as hard as I originally thought. A couple of things, though: Slarty: Quote: BOWS * Average damage of 2 per point in a skill (not counting Heartstriker) So a level 16 nephil character would receive a bonus 4 to bows, which would translate to an extra 20% to hit, and + 8 damage? That's not bad, although an extra 8 (or even 16) damage seems minor when you consider that many of your foes have thousands of hp. Quote: * Poles skill costs 4, 5, 6... 2 more per point bought! The fact that pole weapons cost more skill points to train in means that the bonus sliths receive to them is more valuable. Granted, the nephil receives the same number of bonus skill points, but half of these are wasted due to being allocated to throw weapons. Quote: Halberd users with 10 AP (from Haste, equipment or whatever) can't usually make two attacks in the first round of combat. Bow users always can. What you neglected to mention here is that bow users also reduce damage output by being able to use that initiative to hit the opponent with a curse/weaken/stun battle discipline before said opponent runs up and hit your PCs. Quote: * Can use shields Yes, that's another clear advantage. Being able to soak up damage is vital on torment. Given that you're wielding a shield, what would you equip in your other hand? Since later in your post you assert that one handed weapons are cack in regards to attack strength, I'm guessing you equip a one handed weapon with defensive/resistance/stat bonuses (ie. bonding knife, shielding knife)? Also, is a bow wielder who is not wielding a one handed weapon still able to parry/riposte? I remember that you could parry/riposte in Geneforge, even if you had a thorn baton/wand/bare hands equipped. I'm not sure if this still applies in A5. Quote: This would hand the prize to Bows straight out in my mind, if it wasn't for one thing: Blademaster is an amazing skill in A5 because of its impact on Battle Disciplines, and Elite Warrior is an amazing advantage. I'm not sure I follow you here. While an archer can't train in Blademaster because they don't have the pre-requisite skills, it's not like an all out melee warrior who is min-maxing would either, considering that you need to invest in both melee and pole, which is wasteful. You can get oodles of Blademaster with Divine Blood (which also gives you a bonus to magery and sharpshooter, how convenient!) And even a dedicated archer can still select Elite Warrior as a trait, you really can't go wrong with extra parry and blademaster. But let's assume that bows are preferable to pole/melee weapons. Does the minor bonus nephilim receive to bows trump the significant damage resistance bonus, and minor health bonus, that the slith receive?

It would be interesting to know how powerful you could make a nephil archer. How much damage and % hit do the bow, sharpshooter and dexterity skills provide to bow attacks?

Eigen: Quote: Another unrealistic hope is to participate at a fight between two real armies, say 100-200 fighters on each side, Avernum/Exile 2 came close to doing just that.

I guess my skepticism with the notion of nephil being the best race is that I haven't had good experiences with archery, despite investing in it. I currently have a nephil swordsman/bowman with decent dexterity and bows, and he can't hit squat. Even after being blessed, his arrows connect for about 9-14 damage. I'm guessing that being a nephil must give me a few extra points of damage, and +20% to hit. Since enemies in the game tend to have several hundred, if not thousands of hit points, such a bonus seems trivial. As for the initiative, eh, I'd rather my priest and mage move after my warriors. I'm still not sure about this, which is why I'm challenging someone to prove me wrong.

A case has been made for nephils because they get a boost to bows (although I find them really weak, especially on non-warriors), and gymnastics (which boosts initiative). And they level up slightly faster than sliths.

I'm starting to think that humans are tremendously underpowered in this game. I came to this conclusion when I realized that sliths don't get an extra 4 hp over humans. They receive a larger health boost. Firstly, the health bonus they receive for leveling up and/or boosting endurance is greater than a human/nephil. This means that the hit point discrepancy between human/nephil and slith is larger at higher levels and higher endurances. The drawback of a slith is that they are always about one or two levels behind humans, which translates into extra hitpoints, spell points, and 10 skill points. But the innate bonus sliths receive to hitpoints reverses the reduction that occurs due to the lower level. Sliths also get 4 free points of pole weapons by lvl 16, which translates into about 20 skill points, and makes it far easier to access battle disciplines, especially for spellcasters. They also receive 20% to poison, acid and fire. When you think about it, this is awesome. That's the equivalent of ten points of poor man's hardiness (hardiness also reduces physical damage). So sliths essentially gain on skill points and health points, and receive innate damage reduction. All they miss out on about 10 energy points, which is trivial in comparison to what you gain as a slith. Nephils get a bonus to missile and bows, but I find bows/missiles inferior to pole weapons. They also receive a bonus to gymnastics, but ask yourself this. Which would you prefer on torment: A minor bonus to dodge, or an extra 10-20 health points? Dodge becomes worthless about half way through the game, but 10 hit points could mean the difference between life and death.

Doh, it's under Merrum's claim, just as I thought.

No go?

What's frustrating is that I actually stumbled across it earlier in the game! Can I access it from Merrum's claim, the Three Tunnel Claim, or Armella's claim?

Where on earth is this place? I've been wandering aimlessly around Drake's Pillar's for an hour looking for it. The walkthrough is more than useless in this regard. And is Khora-Vysss the place with the onyx-eyed statue that that Anemona talks about?

That's the shortest answer I've ever read on this forum. Even more surprising is that it's coming from you.

Is it worth investing in combat skills so that spell casters can obtain battle disciplines to augment their spells? An extra 50% damage to lightning spray every 3 rounds sounds worthwhile.

Usually about equal damage (20-30), or spears hitting slightly harder than javenlins. But sometimes javelins score for a ridiculous amount of damage (80 damage in one case), which never happens with my spear.

I'm giving this awful game a second chance, and so far it's been tolerable. I don't look forward to tranquility, though. Anyway, my slith with strength 6, dexterity 2, pole 7 and thrown missiles 0 is hitting harder with javelins (base damage 4-16) than an iron spear (base damage 8-24). What gives? The damage multiplier for javelins must be huge.

Originally Posted By: feo takahari The Warrior seems to be a bit unpopular, but I like him because he so fits the way you have to play him in G4. He's this dorky-looking guy in goggles who looks like he'd be better off coming up with tactics than trying to fight an army solo, and while everyone else is commanding hordes of monsters or setting enemies on fire, he is completely outmatched by everything he faces. Yet this makes his every victory an honorable one, obtained by tactical skill rather than supernatural force, and in my opinion makes him the most fun to play of any character in any Geneforge game. I also like him because the default name "Tristam" completely fits him--Tristam was the second-best of Arthur's knights, and our own Tristam is second-best in every way, but still a hero. That was beautiful *sobs and wipes away a tear*.

Jewelz: Quote: I always steal anything that's sellable for coin or usable by me unless I already have maximum gold. I used to steal everything that wasn't nailed to the ground, but as I've grown older, I role-play games more. I think it's rather odd for the saviours of Avernum to go around breaking into homes and stealing 6 coins from the resident peasant.

I generally don't steal items with a NY symbol. 99% of the time, they aren't that valuable. And it's not as if money is rare in Avernum.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: Ghaldring I actually think that this might make a good test for any of my prospective boyfriends. I'll get them to play through Exile/Nethergate, and if they moan about how difficult the dialogue system is, I'll know that they are too dimwitted to ever hold a decent job, let alone an interesting conversation. So out the door they would go. Oh, heaven forfend that some luckless man should be turned down by the one and only Ghaldring because he didn't enjoy a decade-old computer game! How would he ever cope? He doesn't necessarily have to enjoy the game. But finding the dialogue system in Exile 'too hard' is a clear indication of some sort of mild mental retardation. I wouldn't want those genes present in my offspring. Quote: Besides, I thought you said you didn't swing that way. If you're oh so curious, I swing both ways.