Mea Tulpa

Right, essence is the only real disadvantage since you aren't likely to buy more than 10 or so points in a shaping skill, anyway. The point is that the gap between lifecrafter and sorceress is much smaller than the gap between sorceress and servile -- something you yourself had implied in an earlier post. Buying 10 points of a shaping skill will cost a servile 30 points more than a lifecrafter, and the essence/Int handicap is sizable -- 2 points less Int on top of 6/8 the final essence.

Hmm. G2 and G3 it costs 50. Okay, I'm crazy.

Apparently ice breath uses 30 energy now. It was zero in earlier games, at least in G2 and G3.

Right, that has nothing to do with what I said. ...at this point, whatever.

Originally Posted By: Delicious Vlish G5 shaping feels like G1 shaping. Really it's like G3 shaping. In G1, bonus levels from shaping skill gave +1 to each stat per level, which level ups produced only +1 every other level, so levels gained through shaping skill were strictly superior. Also, a shaper could get to 30 shaping skill in no time at all. G5 is like G3, where creation level ups are important and shaping skill is also important, but at closer to the +10 point.

Battles *are* shorter on Normal. Eyebeasts can run out even on Normal. Cryoa and Cryodrayk attacks use 0 energy, I believe. The fire attacks use 4 energy, and a level 1 or 2 Fyora in G1 is required to not recharge that much energy every round.

If you reaaaaaally wanted to, you could edit a zone script to provide a set of dialogues, checking for various values of the canister use SDF, and telling you which you had.

You missed the point.

G5 has reminded me of an important distinction in CRPG play style that I used to ponder in my younger days. Defensive vs. offensive play style. A party designed for offense aims to be more damage efficient than the enemy. If possibly you kill the enemy before they get to attack. Otherwise, you simply damage them more effectively than they can damage you. Typically, a larger party will be able to do more damage, faster, while still putting enough resources into healing to survive. The weakness of this style is facing strong attacks that take out a normal character in one blow, or that damage everyone at once. A party designed for defense aims to control the battle. Typically this is done through the bottleneck of a single characer. Often a single PC is easier to armor up, easier to buff, and easier to heal. With sufficient defenses, attacks can be executed at leisure. The weakness of this style is facing efficient actual damage that leave the PC unable to both maintain its defenses/health, and attack, in the actions available. The Geneforge series has tended to polarize these two strategies. You can potentially have eight characters with superb attacks; but you only have one character who can buff or heal, and his ability to be armored far outstrips the other characters. * In Geneforge 1, a Shaper with pumped skills could create fresh creations starting above level 50 with all basic stats at 50 or higher, crushing the opposition. Offensive strategy was dominant. * In Geneforge 2, Parry could deflect 95% of nearly all attacks. A solo Guardian could waltz through the game, while a Shaper would have to take pains to protect his creations (newly weak after the engine changes between G1/2). Defensive strategy was dominant. * In Geneforge 3, Vlish could be made so obscenely powerful, for so little investment, that almost any enemy could be destroyed or incapacitated immediately. A Shaper could waltz through the game. Offensive strategy. * Also in G3, a sufficiently strong Daze could immobilize almost any opposition for several rounds. An Agent with good reserves of Essence and HP could get through the game by reducing every combat to one-on-one with an advantage, or by abusing Speed + Daze to deny the enemy all of its actions. Defensive strategy. A similar dichotomy existed in G4 as well, in much more balanced form. In G5, however, it's a little different. The nerfing of the Speed spell means that for most of the game, singletons can only count on *one* action per round. Combined with the better mind effect resistance many enemies acquired in G4, this makes Daze insufficient on its own to get a singleton through the game. Without manipulating the battlefield frame with tactics like Charm or Acid Shower, the singleton simply cannot reduce incoming damage enough to get by. Offensive strategy, on the other hand, approaches (but does not quite reach) G3 levels. Pumped + levelled up creations blow through everything. Just some thoughts.

I'm guessing you no longer think the servile shapes just as well as the sorceress.

No, no, no. This is how powerful ALL creations are when used properly. P.S. It was definitely possible to turn the AI off in Geneforge 3, and in Geneforge 1, with a good setup on Torment. In fact I never turned the AI on for my team of Vlish in G3, not for the entire game. (Granted I did get bored and quit before the Monastery of Tears.)

Eyebeasts will run out. Wingbolts can, potentially. Gazers can too.

No -- the old way to extract the text doesn't work on G5.

*blinks twice* Somehow, I didn't notice the +4 AP on Rotdhizons. Rotdhizons are not hands down better than War Tralls or Wingbolts, I think, but they are certainly a very useful companion to the Trall. But yes, this is what I have been saying all along, DV. G4 is very close to a return to G3 levels of creation power, thanks to the immense amount of experience points available in the game. Shaping is disgustingly good. And you really don't need to waste points in Fire Shaping. Just put it in battle.

Interesting -- it does suggest that a higher tier, level 60 creation with pumped dex -- this is realistic for, say, a battle beta -- could become very difficult to hit.

On Torment, doesn't every incoming attack connect *anyway*?

Neither were most G4 PCs. Unless you conclude that the PC really was unknown to the games, the nine classes available eliminate all options.

Note, however, that you do not need to pump said stats at all until later in the game. Pumping them in the beginning would be a giant waste of essence. Also, I'm not sure it's really necessary to boost Dex at all, unless you start missing.

Doesn't happen, though. Give it a whirl -- you'd like the game, I think.

They are stronger when permanent. But there are obvious advantages to using disposable ones, too -- you don't have to keep them alive and can use whichever one seems best at the time. Typically a permanent, optimal creation will be just as good or better, but it depends how you want to play.

No -- the status effect strength is given by the baton ability. My favourite damage system is actually the one used by Final Fantasy IIIj. It features increasing numbers of attacks per round as well as non-random additive reduction from armor, with the result that *both* offense and defense give increasing returns! It's so satisfying, compared with everything giving diminishing returns in these games.

Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: Slarty ...However, the actual G4 PC could not have been an actual Shaper, which the G5 PC can be. I don't think it's ever stated that you were really a Shaper, is it? The serviles just dressed you in some random robes that they had lying around. The real problem with the G2 or G3 PCs is that they were definitely not serviles. But the skill progressions presumably don't come with the random robes. For all that DV has been talking about finding the right character to wear the clothes, Geneforge is not Final Fantasy X-2, and there are no dresspheres! I suppose your past geneforge/whatever use could muck up your skill progression as easily as your appearance. But then, presumably, if you are being so completely reshaped, it could also make a human nearly into a servile, or vice versa. I think the simple answer is that it was left deliberately ambiguous and that these are all possibilities.

Leadership can also (partially) make up for not having the needed reputation, for the purposes of joining factions.

I dunno, G1, G2, and G3 each had one broken and exploitable game mechanic. I'd have to name G4 the most difficult.

...However, the actual G4 PC could not have been an actual Shaper, which the G5 PC can be. The G3 PC is also a good possibility, given what Alwan and Greta say about him in G4, though the class converse is true here and this leaves open the question of how he got to Drypeak. Speaking of Drypeak, the G2 PC may be an even better possibility, given the comments about the (G5) PC being very old, and given what Litalia says about Drypeak. Shaper Monarch seems another good possibility. If you let him loose he flees west, in the direction of Drypeak.