Mea Tulpa

<--- Cruel to Creations ------ Creations Subordinate ------ Creations Equal ------ Fight Shapers ---> <--- Eradicate Shaping ------ Tight Regulations ------ Light Regulations ------ Unleash All Power ---> Cruel to Creations, Eradicate Shaping: --- Cruel to Creations, Tight Regulations: Taygen Cruel to Creations, Light Regulations: Rawal, Agatha Cruel to Creations, Unleash All Power: Barzites Creations Subordinate, Eradicate Shaping: --- Creations Subordinate, Tight Regulations: Obeyers (Rydell), Loyalists (Aodare, Rahul, Alwan) Creations Subordinate, Light Regulations: Loyalists (Zakary) Creations Subordinate, Unleash All Power: Goettsch Creations Equal, Eradicate Shaping: Trakovites (G4 Khyryk, G5 Litalia) Creations Equal, Tight Regulations: Awakened (Ellhrah), G3 Khyryk, Astoria Creations Equal, Light Regulations: Awakened (Pinnar) Creations Equal, Unleash All Power: Trajkov Fight Shapers, Eradicate Shaping: --- Fight Shapers, Tight Regulations: --- Fight Shapers, Light Regulations: Takers (Gnorrel) Fight Shapers, Unleash All Power: Takers (Drayks), Rebels (Ghaldring, Greta, G3 Litalia) This gets its own topic.

Didn't Trajkov end up establishing a rule that was kind to creations though, in his ending? Perhaps he should go under 'Creations Subordinate.'

Uber: You are a smart guy. Take a second to use your head before you ask for help. Analyze the situation. The files don't have gibberish names. Compare different file names and figure out what the different parts of them could refer to; it's fairly simple. There are three main groups of text files: the ones that begin with "z" and then a number, the ones that begin "g5", and the ones that don't begin with either. The "g5" ones are the key.

No, they really don't have a decent melee attack. I mean, it's usable, but it is SO much weaker than their breath attacks that drayks and drakons will likely do more damage to a gazer with their ranged attacks. The only time the melee attack is going to be noticably better is kyshakks vs wingbolts/gazers, or fire/ice vs pylons.

It makes even more sense if you think of it as pro-creation rights and anti-creation rights. Astoria, the Trakovites and the Rebels all support creation rights, to greater or lesser degrees. Alwan and Taygen categorically deny them. From G2 on there have really been two continua, one for attitude towards creations & shapers, and one for restrictions placed on shaping. We have something like this: <--- Cruel to Creations ------ Creations Subordinate ------ Creations Equal ------ Destroy Shapers ---> <--- Eradicate Shaping ------ Tight Regulations ------ Light Regulations ------ Unleash All Power ---> Cruel to Creations, Eradicate Shaping: --- Cruel to Creations, Tight Regulations: Taygen Cruel to Creations, Light Regulations: Rawul Cruel to Creations, Unleash All Power: Barzites Creations Subordinate, Eradicate Shaping: --- Creations Subordinate, Tight Regulations: Obeyers (Rydell), Loyalists (Aodare, Rahul, Alwan) Creations Subordinate, Light Regulations: Zakary Creations Subordinate, Unleash All Power: --- Creations Equal, Eradicate Shaping: Trakovites (Khyryk, G5 Litalia) Creations Equal, Tight Regulations: Awakened (Ellhrah), Astoria Creations Equal, Light Regulations: Awakened (Pinnar) Creations Equal, Unleash All Power: Trajkov Destroy Shapers, Eradicate Shaping: --- Destroy Shapers, Tight Regulations: --- Destroy Shapers, Light Regulations: Takers (Gnorrel) Destroy Shapers, Unleash All Power: Rebels (Ghaldring, Greta, G3 Litalia) I'm not entirely sure Trajkov is in the right place, but it's my best guess from memory. This is not a perfect chart: for example, the G1 Takers did not actually want to destroy the shapers as an end in itself, just to fight them to secure rights for all creations. Greta's personal opinions seem to align best with G2 Awakened, but her political affiliations and some of her actions are aligned with the Rebels. And whether Astoria actually intends full equality is questionable. But this chart should be a decent approximation.

In G2 and G3, it hit up to 3, and Ur-Drakons hit up to 6 (or up to 8, I forget which). In my experience, though, those attacks were very unreliable, and the inability to choose all but one of your targets made them very, very annoying to use.

Plated Bugs are somewhat inconsistant at attacking multiple targets -- they can do it but only if they are right next to both targets at the start of their turn.

The answer to the all-fire route, late in the game, is using a mix of kyshakks, cryoa/cryodrayks, and drayks/drakons. Kyshakks are not as effective as wingbolts, but their lightning aura effect is very good, and their relative weakness is really only important when facing enemy wingbolts or gazers. The cryoa and drayks can deal with enemy wingbolts. Gazers are the biggest problem since they resist fire, ice, AND magic attacks. War tralls aren't as bad since all the 3rd-5th tier fire shaping creations have some physical resistance. Cryoa are probably adequate to get you by until you get drayks and kyshakks, against anything other than a golem.

Uberunterur?

Originally Posted By: Thuryl Before you sell it, combine the Perfect Fyora Scale with a gold ring on an anvil to make a Shield Ring, which sells for more money than the scale and the gold ring put together. Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure the Shield Ring actually goes for *less* than the gold ring + fyora scale combined. Actually, I think it goes for less than the fyora scale alone. 62 for the shield ring and 100 for the scale, IIRC.

What do the spectral boots resist? I thought all the spectral items were energy resist.

Vlish -- open the item info windows. You will find that the Projection Belt gives a 5% resistance bonus to your creations (not sure which stat, I forgot the numbers). The Fyora scale shield does too. And the Spectral Boots do as well -- I think they might give the energy resistance.

Then do us a favor and check your equipment before we argue further.

Then that sounds like it used a chomp that dealt fire or ice damage. Could be a unique NPC specific attack. Assuming you are using "absorbed" to mean "resisted".

Can you take a screenshot of a beta resisting magic? Or, heck, can you just quote the numbers -- damage listed as taken and damage listed as resisted -- for a few magic shots?

I am locking this thread. DV, Uber Ur is getting to you, clearly, but I don't think he's trying to. He's clearly trying to be funny. Whether or not he is succeeding is a good question, but he isn't acting with malicious intent. And please, let's not throw around week-long bans like they are icy crystals!

Literally THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between alphas and betas is the base level. The beta record imports the alpha record. It changes the name, the color, the base level, and the regen rate (which only affects NPC creations). If you mean compared to bugs: again, bugs resist physical at 30% and poison at 100%. Alphabets resist phys at 40% and fire & ice at 20%.

You don't *need* either one, but they are by far the easiest ways to survive the game.

No, in G3 she says that Ghaldring found her in the woods when she ran away; she's very specific about that. She's also specific about the fact that she ran away immediately after her Watcher dismissed her attack on his life. Apparently Ghaldring sensed her fear and distress and came to find her. (Drakon empathy!)

One more question. Have you used any PC-moving cheatcodes, particularly "backtostart"? That can sometimes cause odd problems. It has for me.

This topic deserves to fall victim to a bovine thud. He and She is not pleased.

Ah, QuickDraw. Those were the days, Edith.

That reminds me. Did anybody else feel cheated by the hidden G5 ending where Ellhrah wakes up from a long, weird dream about the Shapers?

Good point -- her canister addiction and subsequent withdrawal may have messed with her memory.

Litalia's backstory has been completely rewritten between G3 and G5. In G3 she says that, as a neophyte shaper, she was taken on a mission to kill serviles and shape new ones by her Watcher (a la Shanti in G2). She did so, felt guilty, tried to kill *him* (emphasis on the gender -- her watcher was not Shanti), failed, then fled and was found by Ghaldring in the woods. In G5 she implies she was a full shaper ("making the required hordes") before being sent to "a village called Drypeak" to deal with "a rogue shaper." The fact that she was sent to just the village suggests that the G2 PC actually died, because the other endings either involve Drypeak Village becoming irrelevant, or are noncanonical for more obvious reasons (eg, barrier of the winds). Anyway, in this new story she slaughtered all over Drypeak Valley until she met Ghaldring in the underground lair where he had been incubating.