alhoon

Creations turning on their masters is a constant fear of the Shapers as you have found out in practice and soon you will also find out in lore that the Shaper - Creation bond is not always peachy. I can't say more since it would be spoilers but remain assured that creations attacking you is very much NOT a bug and it is an important aspect of the world and the power of the Shapers. 

Now, about why the creation appears charmed when it is rogue, I have no explanation aside of what @googoogjoob said. 

Welcome to some awesome game series. 
NOTE: If you want to avoid spoilers, be very careful what threads you read. There are many awesome twists and surprises in the games and also some not-clear moral questions that you would probably want to deal with without being influenced by our views. 

I have found out that the command to add NPCs to the party (the one used in GF3-5) doesn't work. I haven't found a way to add serviles etc in my party. 

EDIT: I am talking about modding the game. And so far, I can't find a script command that adds NPCs to the party although I can't say I have done any exhaustive search. 

This editor doesn't allow you to do that. There are ways to give yourself items through the script of course, but it has to be modded in. 

I would be more interested in greater variance between the existing tiers. I.e. to have more tier 1/2/3/4 options. 

BUY training for leadership? I didn't know it was possible in GF1. Thank you. I will hold off choosing a faction till I get the Girdle. Or, if I go for too long, I will simply buy leadership 10. I am at leadership 8 right now and have 5 skill points left-over. 

When you say "very high leadership"... what are we talking about? Also, is there any leadership boosting item? 

1 hour ago, dionysis said:

Up until reaching Kazg, I've been mildly pro-Awakened and have allied with the Awakened (Ellrah is alive), haven't turned in Nabb, etc. But now i'm leaning towards allying with the Takers...

 

Here's my problem... I killed some Sholai at the Guarded Bridge and have no idea who I killed or how that will affect the game play....

Anyone have any insight on my trajectory with the Takers?

I have loaded after killing the Sholai and I was very pro-Awakened till I found Kazg. Now I am ... ambivalent. Both factions appeal to me. I am not going to whack anyone for the other's side mob boss. I honestly wish there was an option to make them stop fighting. 
I planned to wipe out the Sholai or hit them hard once I was able to, but now I see they are needed if the Serviles are to be free (in the GF1 narrative). Knowing what comes next I am less inclined to hop in with them and I have not talked to any Sholai yet (I don't know the language) to see what they think of the Serviles. But, my main goal in this game is to make the serviles at least lessen their infighting. Which, I admit means beating back the Takers as they have gone powermad and dropped in bed with the Sholai and throw monsters at all the others. The Sholai started the whole whooha but the Takers continue it. 

And yet, the Takers are what the Serviles need. I agree more, much more, with the Awakened but the Shapers would never listen to them. The Geneforge, an army of Shaped and Shaping invaders and cannisters are needed for the Serviles to break free and perhaps, one day, be able to discuss with Shapers. 

They have small and under-developed organs according to the lore I've read. And presumably, short lifespans.

On 5/10/2021 at 6:53 AM, googoogjoob said:

I don't recall Rotghroths/Rotdhizons having any coherent speech- IIRC there are places where they moan a few words incoherently, but, while they may have the mental capacity for speech, it's presumably pretty hard to express yourself lucidly while your jaw is rotting off.

 

I don't recall any instances of them talking, but I think it's reasonable to assume that War Tralls are capable of speech, given that they're developed from Battle Alphas.

I think the Rotdhizon in GF2 was able to speak in a primitive way, but I may be wrong. Also, it may have been retro-ed in later games even if that was the case since GF2 was the first game that introduced Rotdhizons. 

As for Rotgroth's rotting... aside of the name, I don't recall them rotting. The smell of rot-and-vinegar is what Essence smells like I think. 

I would love to continue this discussion, but I would do so in the other forum, for the not-remade Geneforge games. 

5 hours ago, Sudanna said:

There's a reason G1 looms so large over the rest of the series. Sucia is the central great failure of the Shapers, from which the other four games of misery and war spring. But it's easy to criticize, and harder to improve.

I agree on that. However, they are pretending to be the all-wise many-fail-safes guys. It is hard to improve, but they are supposed to be the best and if that's the best they could come up with, they are buttholes. 

For all the good things you put forward of the Shapers, there is the other side of the coin and different, much more selfish motivations. From what I have seen from the Servant Minds, there were a few shapers that were mostly motivated by sympathy/mercy and a lot of Shapers that were against-purge mostly so they could continue their work. If the Shapers knew they won't return when they barred the island, instead of hoping they would "be back soon", I have no doubt they would have purged most of what made Sucia so attractive: The canisters and the geneforge. (Not the creations)

You're asking me how they could improve: Simply by eradicating the canisters, records and the geneforge would be enough. Few would have reasons to go back there.
Doing everything mostly from the beginning would be impossible too. The Servant minds didn't know enough to be useful without the records. The Serviles didn't know anything.
To make sure that this impossible task is not undertaken in secret, a contingent of 7-8 Guardians placed on the island would be enough to dissuade rogue researchers from trying to slowly put the research back together, with 2-3 agents showing up every 2-3 years to make sure none of those Guardians do anything naughty. 

The biggest mistake of the Shapers was that in their arrogance, they thought they would return to researching godhood, because that's what this is about. 

(Mistake, not crime. Their biggest crime was leaving the Serviles IMO. Even without the Geneforge and the Sholai, the serviles suffered needlessly.) 

NOTE: I have not yet encountered any sizeable population of Drayks to address the other big crime of the Shapers IMO: the "woops, you are too smart and too hard to control for me to allow you to exist. I have to kill you because you may one day decide you want to be free." 
That reminds me of Ghaldring's words to one Cryodrayk he shaped "I apologize for making a faulty creation like you" before re-absorbing it or something. The Shapers didn't even feel guilt towards that.  

NOTE2: I am talking from GF1 narrative only. I would prefer to not discuss in this thread what happens in future games and how the Shapers mishandle the Sucia situation in the worse way. 
Except of course, in the following spoiler! 

Warning: Spoilers for future games and part of this between-games lore may change in the remakes - or when I find more about what happened in GF1

4 hours ago, Corylea said:

Do I chalk his death up to the Takers, to the Shapers, or to the Obeyers? 

To the Shapers. The man prefers to die free than submit. That's his choice. Fanaticism, but his choice and there's something respectable to staying true to your beliefs.

The Obeyers on the other hand are justified to kill a spy and saboteur. He wasn't there to make friends. 

The Shapers now. They abandoned, for whatever reason, the Serviles on Sucia all alone after instilling into them a culture of obedience and making them dependent on the Shapers for direction, to "do the thinking". Lack of critical thinking would often lead to fanaticism. The Obeyers fanatically worship the Shapers because they were conditioned to. The Takers fanatically oppose the Shapers because they feel betrayed and, after the rose-tinted glasses were removed, they realized they have been treated horribly.

The two different ideologies are both tied back to the Shapers. Both sides of the coin, Blind hate and blind reverence, are there because of the way the Shapers made and conditioned serviles (Obeyers) / treated the serviles and abandoned the serviles (Takers). 

If the Shapers were not complete and utter buttholes, that Servile would not have to die. All Serviles would be closer to the awakened, diverging on one side or the other but not to those extremes we see. 

No spoilers clarification: 
Some of the assumptions I have been discussing under in this thread, have just been proven (Mine Core zone) to be partially wrong. 

@CoryleaTake what I said here with a grain of salt and wait to explore more of the island. As a note, my opinion doesn't change but there were things I have not taken into account. 

Some old timers that we discuss with in  the past few years would probably be tempted to say "This is a common occurrence". Well, what can I say? The going-to explanation I have for things I see is based around "The Shapers are irresponsible, authoritarian knowledge-hoarders." So unless I see evidence there's a different reason for something instead of just Shapers acting as irresponsible, authoritarian power-hoarders I go under this assumption. 

What ways are there to clear the "Eastern Mines" please? I have killed every one of those evil pylons that killed my creation and I have found a device that uses crystals to do not-useful-to-me things. I cannot deactivate those machines there, they blow up on me and kill my creations. I guess I could battle-grid my way there and do it, but I wonder whether that would be enough.

I have killed every pylon in there because they killed my first ever creation. 

Or, you could do what I do: Put a "please no spoilers" in the opening post and/or title. Then the nice people of this forum would respect your wishes. It has worked for me. 

19 hours ago, Corylea said:

 

*blinks*  Wait, what?  Using canisters is forbidden?  But then why are there so MANY canisters?  There are one or two in nearly every area, which adds up to a heck of a lot of canisters!  There are 82 zones in the game, so even if it averages out to one per zone -- though I think it's actually more -- why would the previous Shapers have made 82 items that should never be used?

 

 

 

I'm only maybe a third of the way through the game, and my character is still hoping to find out why the island was barred.  People keep whispering about a powerful machine they call the Geneforge, and I'm guessing the existence of that machine might be why, though why the previous Shapers didn't just destroy the thing -- rather than barring an entire island -- I don't know yet.

 

Trust me, if you want to avoid spoilers, you have to be VERY CAREFUL on what you read...

I know that I stopped reading comments in this thread after this one just to avoid spoilers and I have played GF2-5. Keep in mind that most people in this forum have played GF1-5 and perhaps more than once. Then, they gather in this forum to discuss it which is reasonable. 
So, if you want to avoid spoilers, you have to step carefully. The good thing is that this special forum is for the remakes. 

23 hours ago, Corylea said:

I'd been cruising along, thinking like a typical gamer, assuming that the canisters were good because they made me more effective in battle.  Then I talked to someone and got inappropriately angry at her because the canisters had given me the typical Shaper arrogance, and that OVERRODE MY NATURAL PERSONALITY.  (Not all the way; I managed to wrestle it under control, just barely.)

 

Holy moly!  I had no idea the canisters could do that!  I mean, I know I got a message saying that the canister had changed me, but I just thought that was talking about adding the new skill.

 

Now I see that the Shapers are arrogant not necessarily because they choose to be but because using the Shaper biotech has arrogance as a freaking side effect.  Or maybe it's a planned and intended effect on the part of whoever made the canisters; I dunno.  It certainly wasn't intentional on MY part.

 

Jeff, you brilliant man, you!  What an interesting and clever plot twist!

 

Now take it away. 🙂 Is there any way to get my own personality back?

 

Do you want spoilers from the other games (that may well be changed in the remakes) or not? There are some not-right assumptions in your post. 

Non-spoiler, only GF1: I was told by Serviles that they are scared by the changes they see in my character. I am pretty sure it would get worse with time as I consume more cannisters. 

Tiny-spoiler, from what future games were: Ehh... someone told you that the Rebellion are not exactly paragons of virtue. Take that as a hint... 

16 hours ago, Corylea said:

 

I haven't played the later games in this series and am hoping not to have spoilers for them!  And since Jeff is re-working this series, the Rebellion could be different, this time around.

Don't worry. What @ultra112 says represents his opinion. The games are really not black and white. I strongly disagree with the assessment that the Rebellion was worse. They were (IMO) a significant improvement not just for the Serviles, but for everyone. Sure, to get there a bloody war was needed. But the next day if the Rebels win (the player decides that...) is better than the status quo pro-Rebellion. Or so I think and many disagree with me. 
There are different ways to win GF5 BTW. Different endings + variations for each ending. Your ending may (will probably be) different than my ending. 

My opinion, without spoilers is: The Rebellion at its worst was better than the Shapers at their Worst. The Rebellion on its best was much better than the Shapers on their best.  True, the Rebellion at its worst was worse than the Shapers at their best. But that is not a fair comparison. 

I think most people that are aligned with the Shapers do so because the first games you play a Shaper. You learn the world from a Shaper's purview with the good and the bad, but you're a Shaper. 

I started the games at GF4 - the Rebellion. So I didn't have the rose-tinted glasses of the 3-games-as-a-Shaper. 
The only game that really made me iffy about the Rebellion is GF3. But I won't give spoilers. 

No Spoilers suggestion: 

I honestly suggest you play GF3-GF5 as they won't be ready for several years. And that's where the Rebellion actually starts. Again, in my opinion, GF1-2 are "prequels" to the story, GF3-5 are the main story. GF3-5 form a closer narrative with many major NPCs from GF3 staying around through GF5. 
GF1 -3 are located in small areas, while GF4-5 you play in a laaarge part of the continent and cross many realms.

GF4-5 have a more cohesive system and better graphics. 

In GF3 you start to see Shapers ruling over large groups of people, although to get to an actual city instead of backwards small settlements you have to play for some time. 

In GF1 you see Serviles ruling significant settlements of Serviles and you learn how things were for them when they lived in semi-peace for a century. 

I honestly doubt those things would change in the future relaunches. What I believe will happen is better consistency between the games and perhaps extra endings or ending variations. 

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Another question is where did you buy the game? If from Spiderweb site then the problem is with the game or the computer. If from a third party site like Steam, then they add their own layer of software that can sometimes cause problems.

 

Writing to the preference file sounds like a game problem. I've seen that once, but restarting the game fixed it even though lot the save.

Wait what? I have it from steam!!! Will I lose my saves too? It loads fine for me so far, but I don't want to lose my saves regardless

Nope, what you say sounds good enough. Thank you. 

Hi there. I found the time and energy to get back to this great game after a short hiatus. I am progressing steadily, I have reached lvl 12 and I am exploring towards random directions trying to find a Drayk cannister. 
So... without many spoilers, may I ask which direction I should  be looking at for a drayk cannister? I am in some mines North-East with pylons. Sneaky pylons that killed Firetooth, my first ever creation in the game that has been with me since I was level 1. I have no trouble turning back and going somewhere else - after I get revenge on the pylons. My Shaper is level 12, I play moderate difficulty and my creations are level 14-16. Theoretically, I should be able with some save-scumming and item use to get through most areas to grab a cannister. I am not aligned with any faction. 

Really? I have not noticed that... Well, then perhaps they do need the leap. 

To think, Akhari Blaze had so much control that he could keep 100 unbound under control. But other than right when they're made, Unbound are supposed to be uncontrollable. Fire-and-Forget weapons. That means that after you lose control of them, you should not be able to assume it again. 

11 hours ago, ultra112 said:

But I thought Rots were fastest out of all the battle creations due to it's innate quick action and it's capability to close distance rather quickly

The quick action allows them to make more attacks, not move faster. I don't know  what you mean that it closes distance rather quickly. They have the same speed as all creations IIRC.