alhoon

So far I haven't used a canister (and I plan to, but I haven't foudn the ones I want yet) but I plan to go to 7-8 canisters. Enough to get the first message that you are getting detached and the people seem more distant memory but not full cannister junky and get the message that you think of people and their lives as the background. Also, unless they changed the messages, at least in the previous GF, your character wondered if that power to create life is the reason the Shapers are so distant and detached.

That is what the infernal implies. It is never stated by a trustworthy source. The Infernal has assumed the form of a different Shaper, not that of Tuldaric. And Tuldaric didn't shy from admitting he keeps the infernal trapped and he is well aware and uncaring that you may kill him for it. He even says "I think you shouldn't kill me". Thus, we have no actual proof that Tuldaric brought the Infernal, just that he is keeping the Infernal trapped. We have some indicators that Tuldaric did not summon the Infernal, as the Infernal has the shape of a different Shaper. We also don't know what Tuldaric does or plans to do with the Infernal. Yes, it is unwise to keep the Infernal there. But what is Tuldaric to do? It is next to impossible to kill that thing! He has 800 hp and 85-90% resistance to everything, at level 18. It needs an army to take it down. Also the "I will return to my dimension once I make sure Tuldaric is dead, trust me bro. I want nothing to do with your kind. Totally. " that the infernal tells you is in no way convincing. I have not killed Tuldaric to know what happens with the infernal but I have absolutely no reason to trust a single thing the Infernal says while I do have some reason to believe Tuldaric has some good reason for keeping it trapped. That is not true; he could go to the Barzites and they will welcome him. He could go to the Takers and they would accept him. Both have more to offer him. Furthermore, the only times Tuldaric stops his research and quest for power is ... to help serviles remove the Shaper limitations to their spellcasting potential. He clearly does not think like the old Tuldaric, but he still cares for the Awakened enough to go out of his way to help them. And as for the test subjects, the Takers would be much more willing to do that than the Awakened. While Tuldaric states clearly and sincerely he hasn't thought about the politics for a long time, he never says he believes they are fools nor he questions their decision to not use self-shaping (after they saw what it did to him and Barzhal) like the Takers do. He still supports the Awakened and their cause even if he goes through the motions. It is undeniable that he has lost his mind and his motives have completely shifted, but he still helps the Serviles. Or so they want to believe. They say that a lot but "ability to quickly absorb information" and "some resistance to mental effects" (that focus you talk about) does not actually translate to immense mental discipline and control of emotions despite what the Shapers think. It is quite clear through the series that Shapers are as flawed as other human beings despite them thinking differently. There are quick-to-anger Shapers, there are many mad Shapers (not rebels, actual Shapers that are mad), there are reckless Shapers, there are naive Shapers etc. The game world is littered with the failings of Shapers and there is such a demand for people to deal with those failings that the Guardians, an entire sect of Shapers, still has purpose! The Shapers are quite aware that they fail more often than they succeed and thus the first thing they build before they start doing anything is heavy doors to lock "the anything" in. "My personal head-canon is that the Shaping process doesn't create sociopathy or megalomania as such, but rather removes the sense of caution and fear of consequences that come from a lifetime of being fragile enough to be hurt. Shapers tend to become megalomaniacal because of the Shaper worldview when raised to that state, or in the case of Drayks and Drakons, their own inherent pride and greed. " For some Shapers, the lucky ones, yes. But unless they changed what happens in the Barzhite side, this is the Geneforge game where we find out that cannisters cause different kind of madness to different people and how the Barzhites deal with that. Is that mad Barzhite that talks about shadows speaking to her around in this game? She was my favorite Barzhite.

That's a bit disappointing...

I can't say I understand that joke.

Stalkthorn: I didn't expect a quest like the Cockatrice but honestly, I have not seen a Stalkthorn in the game and I saw a lot of people willing to train you in them. There is no "ohhhh, this is a marvelous / horrid thing!!!" or anything. At least yet. Is there a quest involving Stalkthorns that I haven't seen (I am early in the game)

Consider that I made my first roamer that was not pyroroamer in GF1-M after playing GF2-5. That I have made a battle Alpha in GF4 for 5 minutes before reload and GF5 for a few mins. I have never seen, let alone made, an Eyebeast. I have never made an Ur-Drakon and this is the first game that I can actually make one. I have never made an ornk nor I ever managed to get their hidden canisters

I was not impressed with the cockatrice so I never Shaped it. I haven't considered whether it does radiant damage. I faced a few in mutagen and I remember little from them.

I always go mixed-party but Fire priority + Blessing/healing and let my creations do the work. I considered, and I am still considering, danking 4 skill points to missile + item to get to missile 2 to use some nice batons but my firebolt would soon eclipse that damage so it would be a waste. Rotdhizons were often good in other games too. I don't know their possible upgrades as I couldn't make any.

378 essence and you go 2 Gazers, 2 Rots? May I ask why "fully upgraded" Rots and Gazers instead of having them 1-2 levels lower and avoid some meh powers (the Rotgroth has some easily avoidable, I don't know about the Rotdhizon and the Gazer) and getting another Gazer in there? I followed your advice and I bought the Drakons. I didn't make any though till I got to level 10. I will make one now, after I ... well, the Rotgroth is not with us any more. The question now is for the Drakon: Daze (I am crap in mind, but I do have it, although I don't cast it) or Chain lighting? EDIT: Chain lighting was a complete waste. I wanted the drakon for more "single target" only, as I have the two level 14 drayks for cones. And the Fyora, my character and Xander that all together do as much area damage as a Drayk in two rounds - if I use two crystals. The chain lighting looks veeeery impressive graphic-wise aaaaand... it is not worth it. And since the Drakon practically doesn't need rechargable powers as it is, the recharge power I got for him so he could spam his chain lighting is also a waste. That's 14 essence down the drain... I should have made an Ur-drakon unupgraded or better put 1 level on the Drakon and get daze.

I would like to start a discussion about Tuldaric. This discussion has spoilers. Tuldaric was one of the Shapers that were convinced in Sucia to help the Serviles. Being a genius and using the "little scrolls" he managed to find a not-safe way for Serviles to actually be able to cast magic, one of the most important developments in the history of the Rebellion. I believe the Servile Rebel characters from GF4 and GF5 have undergone Tuldaric's ritual, not the cultist-path. As time progressed, Tuldaric started dipping into the cannisters a bit too hard. And the result was more or less what one could expect: He became increasingly detached (like you do at 10+ canisters, way ahead of the 5+ canister thing), powermad and increasingly reckless. I believe seeing Tuldaric's degeneration / evolution is the reason the Awakened put a stop on the use of Canisters, as they said "eh... no. Better safe than sorry" breaking away from the Takers and Barzhites that are "better powerful than sane". However, even as detached as he has become, lost in the cannister madness he still supports the Serviles. If you talk to him, he will admit he rarely thinks about politics anymore in his pursuit of power but he says that Elijah convinced him - and apparently he remains convinced because he does help the Awakened directly. He is still stopping his mad research and self-empowerment to help Serviles. Thus, it was apparent to me, even from O-GF2: Tuldaric slowly turned from Awakened to moderate-Taker. Even some of his dialogue as he goes around is "we will die" and "we need to fight". Which could be surmised as the "Take our Free" suicidal stance of the Takers that so moves me. Fight to the bitter end even at the cost of you life, because that's how much freedom is worth. Live free, die free. Tuldaric Exactly the kind I wanted from the Awakened. He knows the Shapers are coming, he is jacking up his power and is willing to fight. He has sacrificed his sanity in the process. I don't blame the Awakened for not following suit. Or Carnelian that prefers to be a meh Shaper than go mad. But I also don't blame the Awakened that are willing to dip into the canisters although not go as crazy as Tuldaric/The Takers. I was fine with Tuldaric being practically a Taker thinking that he is an Awakened. I was more than fine. That's the leader I wanted for the Awakened: a very powerful genius (even if reckless) that still wants Serviles to be free and expects the battle, not naive, passive Pinner. And then: In my previous Geneforge 2 run, I have not played that area (or if I did, I forgot). O_O What?!?!? Tuldaric, no! A lifecrafter using Rogues as target practice?! That's... Barzhite talk! Not even the majority of Shapers would say something like that! They purge rogues, they don't keep them for target practice. Some butthole Shapers keep it in the back of their mind which is one of the many reasons why I hated that guardian outside Rahul's fort in GF3. A few takers I could see being so reckless in their pursuit of results / farming of power. I can also see the pragmatism of killing the rogues for components (I do that too ) . Not the monstrous thing the Shapers do that Shape Ghalks to pluck out their eyes, but since the creation has to be put down, at least keep it away from people till it is also beneficial to grab a few scales. I really hope that servile guard is misrepresenting the situation. That the "keep them as target practice" means something more akin to "let's test our new destructive techniques on some enemies we have in a controlled environment, rather than do what the Shapers do by making creations fight to the death in the Foundry (GF5) or the Barzhites in that arena" than "let's play by killing things! " or "Let's not put down this dangerous rogue; lock it there and then let Jimmy and Bob kill it, they need the practice." Now, I know what you think: "Dude, don't you go out of your way to kill things to get XP?" ehh... yes, but I don't herd them in places so that I can kill them at my leisure or if they are too low level for me, to let my apprentices kill them for the XP.

Depends on the Shaper's level and the Shaper's preparedness, really. Strahd is similar to a nasty agent, IMO. - He is strong in magic. - He is modest in attacks - and has "leaching" attacks - He is meh in minion-mancy; aka making golems (gargoyles) and undead and of course, something the Shaper could immediately misconstrue as Shaping: The Strahd's Malferic Meld spell which he uses to make... Creations. But his creations are pffft, compared to the power of Strahd. So, while Strahd is a mid-to-high level boss for a party, a Shaper makes his party. And he knows many of the tricks Strahd uses. And of course, a Shaper that had time to prepare a bunch of essence pods and healing potions would have an advantage that Strahd cannot anticipate: re-making his party. The Shaper can also provide both healing/buffs like a healer and offensive spells like a sorcerer albeit weaker than both. A Guardian would have the most "traditional" approach, I think. Make some creations for back-up and rely on his abilities and items. Like a high level fighter surrounded by a few lower-level supporters. Strahd has his tricks and traps to fall back to though but again, the Guardian can remake some of his support depending on the essence. An Agent... Well, there are those traps that Strahd made to turn against Strahd and an Agent is a fighting mage with a little support. But an agent that has mostly invested in mind magic will be at a disadvantage.

So, Context: I am playing a Shaper at level 9. I have a rotgroth, 2 drayks and a Fyora as creations (+Xander for free). After tediously going through areas to scrounge the money needed, I have gathered enough money to pay Tuldarik to teach me shaping of either Drakons or Gazers. Now, the situation: I have the Rot, it costs 28 essence and it is level 13. I am not-optimized = I have put a few points in Battle creations + the armor that gives+1 so I have Battle Shaping 4. My Rot is level 13. I have two drayks, level 13. Essence 26. They are awesome with their cone. I have a Fyora, level 12, that is my first creation and I won't absorb her. In fact, I will load game if she dies. I have 7 essence left-over after creations. I don't mind even if I go down to 4 essence, I have healing spores and curing spores if I need healing I have magic just 1 and I can get another 1 from the armor. I also love gazers from previous games and I certainly plan to eventually have a Gazer in my army. Magic 2 is, I think, enough to get a Gazer. Now, the question: Spend the money to buy Drakon Shaping, Absorb Rotgroth, Shape Drakon (which would be level 15!) at 24+7=31 essence? If yes, which single upgrade should I take? Spend the money to buy Gazer, absorb Rot, Shape Gazer (at low level, 11 I think) and then once I get a level (I am early level 9 though) boost magic Shaping a bit, and boost the Gazer with more Essence? Keep the Rot that when quick action kicks in deals a lot of damage? (I haven't been able to afford the spew acid power) I have read the Shaping Balance thread. I am trying to see what fits my "playstyle" more. Also, considering how much damage a Drakon has and how many hp has, for "about as much as the cost of a Drayk" the Drakon seems a very solid creation (also has some interesting magic). Also: I have two items that increase magic damage of creations (total 20%) and the charm that increased melee damage by 5%. If I put one of the items that gives +10% magic which most of my creations use, I have to take off the armor that gives +1 level to the rot, so it will drop to level 12.

Does anyone know which ability number is the control difficulty of a creation?

Emily.

I put 75% to the first Cryoa as the others go by that one. Drayks I made a bit more complex scaling. If you want to avoid complex scaling, use 125% on creature 190 and it should apply to all. However, I put PC made Drayk at 130 and rogue drayk (192 creature) at 120%. I put Cryodrayk (creature 195) at 140%, rogue Cryo at 130% and a Cryodrayk called "King", that I haven't found, at 145% because he sounds like a total boss.

hmmm? What more to post? As a note, I have put Drayks to 125 scale, and Cryodrayks to 140% scale. I also increased the size of Rots too.

I would like to have a thread to discuss the individual followers and their merits. Pre-Tunnel: Zora is an absolute must. I miss her ability in every battle. Also, even if you don't boost her and leave her at level 4 with all stats at 1, she is "free essence" so she really costs you nothing. You could have her in the back and just get the roar. It's not like you would reach 7 creations before she leaves. The Abandoned Thahd is a kinda pathetic level 3. Really not useful for much, at least for a Shaper. Even as a Fire-oriented Shaper, I could make better thahds. It is essence-free but pretty useless, unless you boost it, and even then, it's still a low-ish level thahd. Post-Tunnel: Xander (Edit): Xander is level 12, decent hp (150) mage with a little fire resistance (20%). He can use a quick-shot spell once per three turns and has searer as a default ranged attack. Apparently (probably bug) he can also cast searer as an ability that recharges every 3 turns, but he doesn't have to. At the time I found Xander, I was level 9 and all my creations were level 13. He is not bad, certainly not worthless since he is free. Feeling that Xander's two searers were a mistake, I gave him essence lances instead of the second searer attack, leaving searer as his default ranged attack. He is a little better than my Fyora. Certainly not impressive. Does Xander has any dialogues? Does he leave the party like Zora and the Thahd at some point or you leave him behind when he becomes too low level? Pre-Edit:

Hey... I try to remain Awakened. It is an uphill battle. You are not helping that struggle. You are pushing me to the Takers. I want the council to burn and the Awakened don't. I talked to several ex-obeyers that watched in horror as their worshipped masters brought death to them ... just because they didn't care enough to figure which servile was loyal and which was pretending.

So, in GF2-I there are more than a few signs that the common don't have it that well under the Shapers either. We are shown evidence the Shapers do cultural genocide (lost languages, lost traditions). It is also clearly said that the Common can do their factions and politics and businesses and as long as they don't violate Shaper Law they are mostly left to do their thing BUT that all goes away if a Shaper deems something they do as bad. I.e. according to what we're told in GF2, a political dynasty of the Common may collapse if a cranky Shaper deems it as antithetical to his or her goals. Or an entire religion banned if an agent with a sore tooth considers it rubbish. The Magus Complex, with the dialogue explaining the Character's own bias and disdain on foreign languages drives it home. I know there are Solai in the game, and I would love my character to meet them. I don't want my char to be xenophobic, but apparently he is.

Let's define "low-canister" and then let's define "any point". From role playing perspective or from the ending perspective?

I did that in the O-GF2.

I wouldn't call it broken. I would call it different.

It will probably have a dinosaur somewhere, that can be swapped for a fyora. And a creepy zombie that can be turned to Rothgroth and green-tinted to Rodhizon. The issue is if you can find roamer-likes, Kyshaaks and Wingbolts there.

That goes with haste and fyoras/drayks too, I think. I think that they are rolled separately but you can only get one per turn.

I just wish control was a bit of a bigger issue... There are items that give increased control and there are creations that theoretically are harder to control (at least in Mutagen, the Cockatrice was). I have played with the "courage" factor, thinking that was it, but I didn't see any difference. Does anyone know what variables in the txt control the ... control? I want to ideally make the higher tier creations slightly harder to control or if that's the path, simply hit the PC with a malus on control. My 8th 9th level Shaper walking around with 2 Drayks, a Fyora and a Rotgroth is a bit ridiculous... Also, I am the clear NPC in that party. I can barely heal / remove affliction twice. And my spells suck. Meanwhile the Drayks do easily 60-70 damage per round to multiple enemies and the rot... well, does 60-70 damage to a single enemy. For more essence. And I can't afford to buy the acid spray thing.