Cant beat this game

[Death Knight]

Im almost at the last straw with this game. There are numerous things that need to be explained, that are not explained in the least.

 

I just went from the mines on the east to Kantre's realm, anxiously trying to get back so i can get my essence back. I spent countless times dying from getting shot by pillars, and basically taking on the entire 8 levels by myself.

 

There is a numerous amount of information that needs to be explained. I was told that i could go by the east through the mines and get past the bridge, now im at a loss and have to trail 4 hours back to a previous save. I dont think there is a reliable way to get past the mines. There is no switch to turn off the pillars.

 

To top it all off, the agent class is the worst class in the game as magic is almost useless compared to shaping and fighting. Im am lvl 13 and i am still summoning clawbugs (which suck) as i cant summon anything else worthwhile. Is this game supposed to be this hard, or did someone lace it this way?

[Slawbug]

What difficulty setting are you using?

 

Also, if you experiment with different character builds and battle tactics, you can find things that are more effective. So I have 2 suggestions:

 

1) Change the difficulty level to the lowest setting.

 

2) If you want some advice on allocating your stat points, why don't you post what you have.

[Death Knight]

I would really lower difficulty, but that would be pretty crappy as it is only on normal!

 

How do i post my stats?

[Randomizer]

The agent class isn't the worst class if you play it right. It depends on what you are comfortable with and take advantage of its strength. Some players aren't use to playing the best way for a class.

 

Magic works if you keep track of what spells work best against what monsters. Some are more resistant to one damage type.

 

The game can be hard if you go into an area that you aren't ready for at your level and build. Jeff writes his games with a preconceived idea of how you should play them. Beta testers are usually insane power gamers that can push through areas in ways that most players won't even consider.

 

I haven't played that game in several years, but I know I got through using an agent.

[Death Knight]

That may be so, but the guy that told me to use the agent was a gamefaqs writer who beat the game with the agent saying: "The agent is the most powerful class" yada yada yada- That guy was obviously nuts or on speed. I should have never listened to him.

[Micawber]

I admit it's been a while but as I recall, you have to sneak past the pylons in the mine until you find the control mind who can switch them off. You have to visit it more than once as it can only deactivate parts of the mine at one time.

 

The game does warn you that agent is more difficult than the other two classes. Unlike the later games, there are very few spells available, which makes the agent's life very difficult.

 

It's ok to play on easy!

 

You can either take a screenshot and upload it to some hosting site, or just type up the stats into a post. I.e. what level is your PC and how many points you have in each skill.

 

Edit: This was a reply to the one 3 posts ago...

[Randomizer]

An agent can be the most powerful. Delicious Vlish when he regularly posted would write essays extolling the virtues.

 

Agents work best by buffing to haste and then sneaking in around an obstacle, firing a spell, and retreating out of sight before the end of the turn. Done right and you pick off an enemy one by one without getting hit.

 

A second method is to push mental magic and charm a nearby foe into taking out the others. After all the enemy goes for the closest foe first and you don't care if they kill each other. Then kill the most wounded until they are all dead.

[Slawbug]

That guy WAS nuts, because the Shaper class *is* more powerful in Geneforge 1. However, the Agent class can be powerful, too, when played correctly.

 

(Do you really expect that everything on GameFAQs will be 100% accurate?)

 

You post your stats by writing them down and then typing them out by hand. There aren't that many of them.

 

But again, there's nothing wrong with turning the difficulty level down!

[Death Knight]

Alright here are the stats-

 

Strength, Dex, Intelligence and Endurance are set at 4

 

Melee is 6 and missiles is at 2

 

4 in anatomy.

 

9 in battle magic, 2 mental magic, 3 in blessings

 

2 in battle shaping

 

5 in leadership and 5 in mechanics with 16 in luck giving me 49 armor, 90 essence, and 76 health at lvl 14.

[Death Knight]

I might have to wait until avernum. I really dont want to restart.

[Micawber]

Fine for the experts, if you know how to exploit the AP system, but I think for a first time player it's still safe to say that agent is a more difficult class to play than shaper.

 

In Geneforge, unlike the sequels, there are only a handful of spells available. You need to be very, very tactical using a combination of battle magic, crystals, and mental magic.

[Slawbug]

It sounds like your problems are mainly due to tactics on that one map (see Micawber's post). Your build is okay. If you want to fine-tune it, the major flaw is that you've split your points between magic and melee, and as a result, you are mediocre in both as opposed to great at one or the other. As an Agent, that should be magic. All the points in Melee, Missiles, and Anatomy would be better spent in Battle Magic or Spellcraft. (Likewise for Dexterity, although I can't remember what Str and Dex start at in G1.)

 

Also, 16 Luck sounds excessive -- I'm guessing "invest in Luck" was another "tip" from the walkthrough?

 

Edit: Also, yeah, Agent really is harder in G1. This is the ONLY Spiderweb game EVER where the class choice screen says in plain text, this class is harder to play. It says that for a reason.

[Death Knight]

Yes that is correct, he stated to set luck to 30, and 35 if you have extra.

[Death Knight]

Well besides the map, is there any other ways to make it up north? Can the "hill" map be breached, or is that another tough one?

[Slawbug]

IIRC, stats don't go above 30 in G1.

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Death Knight

Well besides the map, is there any other ways to make it up north? Can the "hill" map be breached, or is that another tough one?

Basically all the zones in Geneforge require either good combat ability, or persistance at dealing with traps and puzzles (often combined with Mechanics or Leadership requirements). If you don't want to deal with turning off the pylons one at a time, and that sort of thing, you need to be better at combat.

[Death Knight]

Well if that is the case should i just delete the character? I really dont want to restart though.

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

Change the difficulty level to the lowest setting.

Originally Posted By: Micawber

It's ok to play on easy!

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

But again, there's nothing wrong with turning the difficulty level down!

[Death Knight]

Ok, i got the memo!

 

Im not used to lowering difficulty but maybe it will make a difference. One last question, since melee is fine where its at, would you recommened putting any points in which of these skills, battle shaping, battle magic, or mechanics/leadership? Any advice would be helpful with the build in mind.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I remember my first (and only) real playthrough of G1. I remember spending hours hacking away single pylons with my agent (I had accidentally overwritten my shaper early on) and a single battle alpha. It was my first real RPG experience, and I quit somewhere in those mines. I only ever went back through when using an editor and steamrolling for fun.

 

My point is that I remember those mines being really frustrating when you don't know how to handle them. Stick with it, though, and someday you'll laugh when you think back to it.

[Micawber]

Advice for Death Knight: Stay out of the shaper crypt. (That zone is plot-optional and it's tough even by Geneforge standards.)

 

On your stats. You only need to get to level 5 in each of Battle Magic, Mental Magic, Blessing Magic and Healing Craft. After that, do not raise them any higher, but get Spellcraft instead. Adding 1 point of Spellcraft (costs 4) does the same as adding 1 point to each of the other four (in total costs 8). The skill point costs are fixed in this game.

 

I'd say for a singleton character like the agent, buy plenty of Mechanics, because you'll need to sneak around a lot and Mechanics will help with that. Leadership would help with a few quests, but Mechanics is more often useful.

 

Don't spend any more skill points on shaping.

 

Of the primary stats, Intelligence is most useful for the agent. I would also put maybe 2 more points in Endurance but that's just me. (The reason is there are some zones where you take damage every round just from being there, that's why I prefer to have some more health. Others may disagree.)

[Death Knight]

Thanks guys for the good feedback!

 

I unfortunately learned the hard way with geneforge 1 (at least) and that is that mechanics is very important. Im not sure if that is the case with the other geneforges, but no matter. The spellcraft tip is good too, i sort of was wondering if there was a breaking point with pumping that skill.

 

The only thing with mechanics is, with it, is there a way to disable a pillar/turret, and if so what does it entail?

 

Im sorry with all the questions, but this might just save me.

[Dikiyoba]

You can use leadership and mechanics in some cases to disable pillars or turrets by finding the right control panel or person. (In the case of the mine zones, you need to get into the mine core and talk to the servant mind. I'm pretty sure you don't need mind nutrients for him.) In general, be prepared to fight your way through most turrets and pillars, though.

 

Mechanics and leadership are useful skills for every Geneforge game.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Triumph]

Have you learned about how to sneak? It's very helpful for getting around many turrets and such. Go into combat mode and haste yourself. Then run around; you can travel much further without getting attacked, often running from cover to cover so that enemies never see you.

[Brocktree]

Originally Posted By: Death Knight

Alright here are the stats-

Strength, Dex, Intelligence and Endurance are set at 4

Why is your intelligence so low? What makes agents so powerful in Geneforge 1 is their ability to spam searing orbs. Without a high intelligence (and therefore energy), you have essentially castrated your agent.

Quote:

Melee is 6 and missiles is at 2

There is no need to invest in melee. Searing orbs is much more effective.

Quote:

9 in battle magic, 2 mental magic, 3 in blessings

Pump up mental magic so that you can use terror and dominate.

Quote:

2 in battle shaping

Battle shaping sucks. Make a couple of cryoas, if you have the essence to spare.

Quote:

5 in leadership and 5 in mechanics with 16 in luck giving me 49 armor, 90 essence, and 76 health at lvl 14.

16 luck?! Why on earth did you pump luck so high?

Agents require several things to be powerful:

- High energy/essence
- Searing orbs
- Haste
- Terror and dominate
- A couple of drayks

[Alorael at Large]

Take home message: in Spiderweb games, it usually pays far more to be a specialist than a generalist.

 

Also, in most of the Geneforge series battle shaping is terrible. In addition, in G1 fire shaping is incredibly good. You just picked the wrong tree.

 

—Alorael, who thinks these sorts of things led to the Avadon skill system retool. Not being able to make characters poorly means you aren't punished for not reading FAQs or, worse, for reading bad FAQs.

[Death Knight]

imho, I think that I'd rather have consequences like what happened (and learn from it), than avadon where i cant lose. I played avadon for a couple of days and got really bored. Generally, preference for difficulty for me is hard but not ridiculously annoying. Anything that is too easy for more than a large amount of time is worse though.

 

On a side note, is Geneforge 1 the hardest of the series or is there any real difference?

[Dikiyoba]

It's certainly the hardest for the Agent class.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Gerry Quinn]

It was not particularly hard as a shaper. I never finished any other GF, but dfficulty was not the issue so that is not especially relevant. A nice little army of pets will crush everything, that party haste spell is overpowered. I concentrated on dinos. In the end a bunch of hasted drakes are unstoppable.

[Death Knight]

Alright, i am getting close to the end of this game. The only problem is that i am unable to pass past the control panel in west gate. There are stealth sholai that are hit and running left and right. I killed a few of them, but they keep coming. They arent the problem though. The problem is i dont think i will ever have enough mechanics skill to pass the controls. They ask if i want to repair the conrols or insert something in them. Does anyone know how to get past there, the front gate is too hard to surpass and this map might connnect.

[Dikiyoba]

It's been a while, but Dikiyoba thinks you need an entry baton to pass. There's one located in the northern mine zone and another in the west workshop.

[Triumph]

You don't need mechanics on this door, if it's the one I'm remembering. You need a special item called a control rod or something like that. I believe the island's control rod is stashed in the South Workshop.

 

Edit:

 

Wrong item, wrong location, but right idea. You need an Entry Baton to open the gate. There are two hidden on the island. One in the northern zone of the mines, and one in the...Western Workshop, I think.

 

Edit: Sniped by Diki. Bah.

[Death Knight]

Wow, i am getting closer to the end of this game and i have to say that jeff must be a sadist. This game is probably the hardest game i have EVER played. I must have died a total of 200 times. You never know, it might set a new guiness record.

 

Edit-What's even crazier is that the game is on easy. You seriously should just remove the other difficulty options, leave normal on and change the name to-7th layer of hell.

[Death Knight]

I think there is a glitch. I am on the 2nd to last level where the pylons and ridiculous creatures are and i just reached massive heat vents. I cant run across them, and i just pressed a switch on a lever that says heat modulation. Yet nothing happened. This game just keeps getting crazier.

[Death Knight]

Ok, i managed to get past that part, and after about 12 tries, i beat trajkov. I now am at the guarded docks. However, it says i need the green and brown spore batons. Unfortunately, i used them up. Can anyone help me. I really want to finish this game.

[Death Knight]

Ok i managed to finally beat this game.

 

After making it to the boat, i watched the small movie and am finally done. I have to say, though it was a freakishly hard game and it tested my patience countless times, im glad that i can say that i beat it.

 

I want to thank everyone that helped me along the way, and had patience to listen and put up with my frustration. And jeff of course for making the game.

[Geneforgeisformeyukkyu]

Originally Posted By: Death Knight

Ok i managed to finally beat this game.

After making it to the boat, i watched the small movie and am finally done. I have to say, though it was a freakishly hard game and it tested my patience countless times, im glad that i can say that i beat it.

I want to thank everyone that helped me along the way, and had patience to listen and put up with my frustration. And jeff of course for making the game.

If you want something that will try your patience, you should play geneforge 3.

On another note, I never realized how spoiled I am from the newer games. Looking back at the graphics of geneforge 3, Jeff's graphics have come a long way, at least to me.

[Triumph]

Is this your first SW game, DK? I recall when I began to play Jeff's games; they seemed much harder than they do now. Over time, and by reading points posted on the forums here, I gained a better grasp of how to play and the games aren't as difficult for me now. So it gets better!

[Death Knight]

This is my first game with spiderweb that i have played and beaten. They are, like soldak games, tough games when you first start. It will probably get better as i go along like you said. The geneforge game idea is excellent. Im not sure if i will ever like the avernum series as much as geneforge, but i might give avernum 1 a try when it is rewritten.

[Randomizer]

I found Avernum games easier than Geneforge games. The biggest differences are the larger parties (up to 4 characters with Avernum), and the game is always turn based so you don't have monsters moving up to attack while you are deciding your next action.

[Death Knight]

What about geneforge 2? I have to admit that even though the geneforge series is tough, there is just something about the universe that jeff made that is like nothing ive played before. If i did consider geneforge 2, is there any class/skill differences between the first. I read the story, and it sounds very different from the 1st.

 

Any non-spoiler info would be great.

[Slawbug]

What RPGs are you used to playing, DK? That might help in making recommendations for how to adapt to SW's more classical style of RPG.

[Death Knight]

I usually like games where you can have many ways of playing just by classes and tactics. But not too many. Im not the biggest fan of party based games, but my first real excellent rpg experience was with baldurs gate 1 and 2. I played the game different though as parties were a bit of a bummer to me. I prefer small groups to none. I soloed baldurs gate 2, then went to solo baldurs gate 1. Baldurs gate 1 was harder but geneforge still tops that. I soloed arcanum, that was a hard game, but still not as hard as bg1 and geneforge.

 

Im not gonna lie to you, i find spiderwebs rpgs better than those mentioned due to being able to read the game like a story. I stopped reading books as i lost interest. Games that are made like geneforge and avernum would be my type of taste.

 

I played avadon, i might have even bought it too. But the problem i had with the game was that there were too many different ways to make your character. When i get a ridiculous amount of ways to make a character, my powergamer sickness comes in and i cant enjoy the game. I would normally go with avernum 1 if i could see where the people/enemies walk. I found that to be very annoying, but thats why i was thinking geneforge 2 might be a good idea.

 

My only problem is that i dont know how long it will be before avernum 1 rewrite.

 

Either way, is there any class/stat/skill changes to geneforge 2 compared to 1?

[Triumph]

G2 is similar in many ways to G1. However, it introduces new spells, new creations, and a major new skill called Parry. A Guardian can pump Parry quite high and become very strong defensively (not invincible, but very strong).

 

If you prefer to solo rather than shape a party, playing G2 as a Guardian might right up your ally, because Parry is so powerful in that game (Parry was weakened in subsequent games). Mostly you'd boost Str / End (and maybe Dex if you use missile weapons), probably Melee, Quick Action, Parry, a little supplemental magic (blessing and healing), and of course Mechanics / Leadership.

[Jerakeen]

Originally Posted By: Death Knight

I played avadon, i might have even bought it too. But the problem i had with the game was that there were too many different ways to make your character. When i get a ridiculous amount of ways to make a character, my powergamer sickness comes in and i cant enjoy the game.

It's true that there's room for variety in when you choose to train which skills, but there are really only two choices for the overall build: right+center or left+center. Or you could try to generalize, but that doesn't seem to work very well.

But the beauty of the skill system in Avadon is that there's no min-maxing and nothing is irrevocable. You can retrain any character from scratch if you find you've made a mistake.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES

What RPGs are you used to playing, DK? That might help in making recommendations for how to adapt to SW's more classical style of RPG.

I don't think the video game industry is old enough to have a "classical" style. Retro, certainly. But there's no Greco-Roman ideal of, say, a FPS, and I highly doubt that there are any really clearly-defined periods or artistic styles in video games- the medium is just too young.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

I don't think the video game industry is old enough to have a "classical" style. Retro, certainly. But there's no Greco-Roman ideal of, say, a FPS, and I highly doubt that there are any really clearly-defined periods or artistic styles in video games- the medium is just too young.

ASCII characters would be definitely Golden Age games and vector graphics might be too.

[Slawbug]

Wikipedia says:

 

"The word classical has several meanings. In general, these meanings refer to some past time, works of that era or later works influenced by that time. Classical things are often seen as ordered and part of high culture or a golden age, and contrasted to earlier or later things which may be seen as chaotic, elaborate or emotional."

 

I think this is a pretty perfect description.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES but really Wikipedia

"The word classical has several meanings. In general, these meanings refer to some past time, works of that era or later works influenced by that time. Classical things are often seen as ordered and part of high culture or a golden age, and contrasted to earlier or later things which may be seen as chaotic, elaborate or emotional."

But there isn't a golden age or high culture of video games because there hasn't been sufficient time to try and discern which games can actually still be popular and influential over a (theoretically) infinite period of time. Classical art and music and literature are regarded as such because they're still being appreciated and listened to centuries or even millennia later, and likely will be for centuries or millennia more. Even Tetris, probably the closest thing to a "classical" video game, has been released for what, three, four decades? That's hardly long enough to extrapolate centuries into the future.

[Slawbug]

I agree with you about Shakespeare. Shakespeare also isn't classical: his works are considered classics, but that's not quite the same thing.

 

I think that within the realm of CRPGs, it's fair to call Ultima-style games classical. I'm not thinking of any inherent value here. (Sophocles is great, but what makes him better than Shakespeare?) I'm thinking more of the tremendous influence and impact compared with both the previous and succeeding generations of CRPG types, and the wide imitation of them within that world.

 

Edit: Also, I definitely am thinking given the history of CRPGs as we know it. A century from now things certainly might look different, just as in 10,000 years Greece and Rome will probably not be called "classical" in any non-dead language.