(Least) Favorite Area?

[Callie]

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[Slawbug]

It's been a long time since we've had an interesting and relevant poll. *applause*

[Feo Takahari]

I suppose I ought to reach Loyalist Lands before I respond to this. Hard to see how it could be more annoying than the Howling Depths, though. (And while I can't check and see how the votes are going until I vote myself, I suspect the Howling Depths are going to get a lot of votes for least favorite. I suppose they sounded good in theory, and they were done far better than some equivalent run-for-dear-life bits in other games, but the enemy spawn rate was a bit higher than I would have liked.)

[Lilith]

Not surprised to see the Vahnatai Lands getting an early lead in the "worst area" stakes. Lots of dull, samey combat in that area.

[Randomizer]

The Vahnatai Lands also includes the Pit of Abominations the most boring fights in the game. I still hated the Darkside Loyalist Lands more because they were a pure grind as pro-Redmark or just walk through them as a Loyalist.

[Alorael at Large]

I like the whodunnit aspect of the Drake Pillars. The spies and saboteurs, traps, and labyrinth of mines were one of the few times Avernum has given me a feeling different from the usual exploration feeling that pervades the games. And knowing who you're trying to kill without really having much of an idea of how to get there and kill them is a new twist for a major boss. (This is slightly true of both the slimes and the Filth Factory in A3, but somehow they don't quite feel as concealed.)

 

It's funny, actually, because the Drake Pillars really are just a big exploration. They just happen to give me a different impression.

 

—Alorael, who was unimpressed with New Harston. It seemed like a return to a vaguely old-Avernum area of Avernum, but very flat. Playing through it once was fine, but it didn't hold up as well more than once.

[Toby-Linn]

Each area has it's good and bad points -- I voted that Tranquility was the worse because of the sentinels but I actually liked the sentinel workshop, it gave me a creepy feeling when I entered it. I could have voted the Anana Lands as worst as well, because of all the chitrachs.

 

I liked the Drake Pillars because of the Lysstak the Beast fight. I liked the Howling Depths and the Loyalist Lands because they gave me a sense of urgency that is normally missing in Spiderweb's turn-based games. I liked the Northern Isles because we were in boats again and there were lots of fun areas to explore.

 

I voted Melanchion's area as the best, because I just liked the fact that Melanchion is a dragon, and he rules over this area, and he's Athron's son so we got to talk to Athron a little bit. Plus there were lots of fun monsters and interesting fights.

 

I liked the Auzure Gallery as well, because we get to meet the group who had been putting up the pylons and we got to go back and forth between two towns and help/hinder both. The Vahnatai Lands are also one of my favorite areas, I just love meeting and helping the Vahnatai people.

 

In conclusion......so hard to choose one over another.

 

I agree with Slarty, great poll idea Excalibur!

[Acky]

My favorite area is loyalist lands, mostly because it has one of the coolist, most interesting fights and the path to get to the fight. The enemies were tough and challenging but fun and provided one of the most adreniline filled parts of any game I've ever played. I found it in no way a let down and made me really feel as if its the end game.

 

 

My least favorite area has got to be Vahnatai lands. It was a pure, pointless, depressing grind.

[BlueRivets]

The Azure gallery was horrible in my opinion. Long hikes through nothingness to get anywhere, assuming you weren't going to Highground or Muck, plus having to choose between helping two towns that I would have much rathered preferred to level to the ground.

[Feo Takahari]

Originally Posted By: BlueRivets

The Azure gallery was horrible in my opinion. Long hikes through nothingness to get anywhere, assuming you weren't going to Highground or Muck, plus having to choose between helping two towns that I would have much rathered preferred to level to the ground.

Well, there is the option of bleeping them for all they're worth, and bleeping Thalants too while you're at it. (Send the giants against Muck for Highground's reward, tell Thalants for their reward, then kill the giant queen for Muck's reward. Only Muck gets their money's worth, and that's after being assaulted by giants.)

[Earth]

damnit, I voted wrong on 1st poll (voted Howling instead of Drake). Fav place is hard to decide since most places have big distance between places (walking ten times from Highground to seek those priests etc after has been restoring hp and mp gets a bit frustrating) but my fav place was Drake Pillars (if Khora-Vysses ain't counted to Drake Pillar area).

[Xaiya]

My favorite is the Azure Gallery because of how I liked that you could trick people to get the maximum reward.

 

My least favorite is the Anama Lands because of all that grind. And I hate those things.

[Callie]

My favorite area is Melanchion's Lands. I liked the fights, the discussions with normally hostile monsters, and of course, the GIFTS, which I think is the best group of them so far (I haven't played A4, so I don't know about that one).

 

My least favorite area is the Anama Lands, since most of the fights are with chitraches, which I found a bit boring sometimes. I thought Tranquility and the Vahnatai Lands were so-so, and liked all the other areas.

[madrigan]

My favorite is the Azure Gallery, because of the difficult moral dilemmas presented there.

 

I almost voted for the Howling Depths, because the running battle is the most exciting part of the game, but the area is pretty small so I went with the Azure Gallery.

 

My least favorite is Tranquility, because you're kept there performing Solberg's errands just because he doesn't feel like solving the problem himself. That and the whole enterprise is so shady -- no one who has ever read any sci-fi, superhero comics, or dystopian fiction would be surprised that Solberg's scheme is failing. This is assuming that Avernum has any kind of speculative fiction or oral tradition.

 

Here, I almost voted for the Vahnatai Lands, because they're just an obstacle that doesn't add much to the plot or to your understanding of the game world. Ok, resources are scarce, the Vahnatai have adapted, they were here first, great. Can I go now? I do like the Pit of Abominations, though.

[Alorael at Large]

Dystopian fiction seems to be a relatively recent invention. Utopian fiction can reasonably said to begin with Utopia, the genre-namer, in the 16th century, but dystopia didn't really appear until the early 20th century, and even what we think of as standard science fiction, superhero fiction, or fantasy fiction (as opposed to mythology and legend) are also only around a hundred years old. Avernum, as a society somewhere between the middle ages and the late renaissance, isn't likely to have the kind of dystopian fiction that shows the dark side of Solberg's utopian aspirations.

 

—Alorael, who finds it interesting that the Empire itself, despite its long-standing status as something of a general antagonist, isn't too far off from some visions of utopia. Valorim minus the plagues would make a decent land of libertarians. Actually, Avernum might be even better, except for the whole living in caves and getting eaten by cave bugs problem.

[Earth]

Soultaker's Pit was horrible place cause couldn't see much and too many tough monsters.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

That and the whole enterprise is so shady -- no one who has ever read any sci-fi, superhero comics, or dystopian fiction would be surprised that Solberg's scheme is failing. This is assuming that Avernum has any kind of speculative fiction or oral tradition.

Dikiyoba thinks there were a few comments here and there that indicated that the PCs were fairly genre-savvy. Dikiyoba can't remember any of them, though.

[Feo Takahari]

Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba

Originally Posted By: madrigan

That and the whole enterprise is so shady -- no one who has ever read any sci-fi, superhero comics, or dystopian fiction would be surprised that Solberg's scheme is failing. This is assuming that Avernum has any kind of speculative fiction or oral tradition.

Dikiyoba thinks there were a few comments here and there that indicated that the PCs were fairly genre-savvy. Dikiyoba can't remember any of them, though.

Regarding the golems: "Another story that seldom ends well. But who are you to educate the crazy people?"

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Earth2025

Soultaker's Pit was horrible place cause couldn't see much and too many tough monsters.

You need to use a lantern.

The monsters weren't tough if you used the proper tenderizer. Slowly move up on them and take them out one at a time.

[madrigan]

Originally Posted By: Institution

Dystopian fiction seems to be a relatively recent invention. Utopian fiction can reasonably said to begin with Utopia, the genre-namer, in the 16th century, but dystopia didn't really appear until the early 20th century, and even what we think of as standard science fiction, superhero fiction, or fantasy fiction (as opposed to mythology and legend) are also only around a hundred years old. Avernum, as a society somewhere between the middle ages and the late renaissance, isn't likely to have the kind of dystopian fiction that shows the dark side of Solberg's utopian aspirations.

—Alorael, who finds it interesting that the Empire itself, despite its long-standing status as something of a general antagonist, isn't too far off from some visions of utopia. Valorim minus the plagues would make a decent land of libertarians. Actually, Avernum might be even better, except for the whole living in caves and getting eaten by cave bugs problem.

According to Erich Fromm's essay on Brave New World, the first dystopian novel was We, by Yevgeny Zamyatin. According to Goodenoughpedia, that book dates from 1921. So, yes, early 20th century. We is an excellent book, depicting a society that Orwell's Oceania might have become if it lasted for a few centuries. But what I was going to say was, the development of literature could have gone quite differently in any alternative universe.

I am not terribly familiar with Goethe's Faust, but I think it includes some Solberg-esque themes, and that's from the early 19th century.

I think that some libertarians might interpret Avernum as a parable for the modern welfare state, with brave and independent Avernites having their resources and their bodies consumed by greedy monsters and communistic Vahnatai.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: madrigan

I think that some libertarians might interpret Avernum as a parable for the modern welfare state, with brave and independent Avernites having their resources and their bodies consumed by greedy monsters and communistic Vahnatai.

The Vahnatai are environmentalists that believe there are finite resources that must be allowed to renew by their going through periodic sleep periods so they can share without destroying the ecosystem.

Avernites are the penal colony pioneers of Australia and Georgia in the US that were dumped far from home to make it better for their homeland. Left to harvest the resources of their new home and being exploited by their parent homeland. You even have the original homeland sending troops to quash the rebellion.

[madrigan]

Quote:

The Vahnatai are environmentalists that believe there are finite resources that must be allowed to renew by their going through periodic sleep periods so they can share without destroying the ecosystem.

See? Communists!

I think the Australia comparison is very good.

[Alorael at Large]

I don't know Faust terribly well either, but Marlowe's Doctor Faustus dates from the turn of the 17th century. The central concern seems mostly to be deals with the devil (and possibly academia), and the only real links to Solberg that I can see are magic and hubris.

 

—Alorael, who wonders what, exactly, the nature of the life-extending magic is. Garzahd, at least, seems to have really made a Faustian, or at least demonic, bargain. Or maybe he just skins and wears demons.

[madrigan]

I didn't think of it, but the story of Icarus is way older than that, of course.

 

Perhaps this depends on what you think the lesson of Tranquility is. Is the lesson that utopias fail, or that smart people are never as smart as they think they are, or that there are no pure technical solutions, or...?

 

I'd say that the idea of building a utopia, and the idea that some sort of dishonesty or corruption must lie at the heart of such a society, goes back at least as far as Plato.

[Rent-an-Ihrno]

"Faust" takes place in the 17th century, and the person Dr. Faust is not to be compared with Solberg in any way. Solberg's life-prolonging magic and all that stuff is not of the same nature as Faust's pact with the devil, and neither does he do what he does of the same reasons.

 

And the vahnatai are not communists, either. We've already discussed that in various threads.