character traits

[Dragongirl]

Any suggestion on which is useful and whatnot for creating a new party? I wonder why boa editor doesn't have the 'change race' like in boe - I really like that feature.

[Lilith]

Races: Humans level up fastest and are the default choice if you don't really want the advantages of the other races. Nephilim aren't really that great, although definitely worth considering if you're making a combined archer/thief character. Slithzerikai get fire resistance and a polearm bonus. Some people make Slith mages but that doesn't really seem worth it to me; consider it if you're making a fighter who's going to use polearms, though. (Don't make your only good fighter use polearms, though; good edged weapons are much more common than good polearms.)

 

Traits: Divinely Touched is good, but comes with one heck of an experience penalty; it's still quite popular, though. Likewise for Elite Warrior, although obviously it's only good for melee fighters. Natural Mage is an absolute must for mages and pretty good for priests too. Fast On Feet is good for anyone who has a skill slot to spare: an occasional extra action point is always nice, although it's most useful for archers and least useful for spellcasters.

 

Of the disadvantages, consider Brittle Bones for anyone who's not likely to get into much melee combat, and Sickness Prone for anyone; the experience bonuses are nice, and there's not really much of a disadvantage. The other advantages and disadvantages aren't really much use.

[UA]

You can click the icon on the character creation (read: creation) screen that says Human/Slith/Nephil and it will switch through the different races.

[Drakefyre]

I use a Slith Divinely Touched Fast on Feet singleton priest/warrior. He was level 17 by the end of VoDT, so experience penalties don't matter much.

[Imban]

He's ALSO a singleton, Drakey. ;

[Drakefyre]

That's what I was implying - experience penalties don't mean much for singletons.

[Qalnor]

I think Nephil are underrated, personally I would make a Nephil mage a hundred times before I made a Slith mage.

 

Nephil take a very small experience penalty -- they basically get fast on feet for half cost and doesn't take a slot. This to me means that they make ideal mages, because you can take natural mage and brittle bones AND get the fast on feet perk and you come out with only a 5% experience penalty.

 

To top it all off, they get a truly free 2 levels extra of dexterity. And by truly free I mean it doesn't increase the cost of increasing dex, so the bonus effectively gets better as you spend more in dex (ie when you get to 20 dex you only had to spend 18 dex worth of creation points).

 

Slith get basically nothing for being slith, honestly. I think the fire resistance was toned since the avernum series because I haven't noticed that my slith warrior is immune to fire in the same way that he was in A2/3.

 

Overall I think Nephil are the most superior race choice for everyone except a pole user, my nephil usually beats out war blessed people for going first, and is only really beat out by high level haste spells. If I were to start again, I would put it on my mage and priest without a moments hesitation, first strike on a mage and priest are godly.

[Dragongirl]

would a slith warrior and nephil mage/priest be an ideal enough party for the first scenario?

 

Also, are there any speciall skills available in boa?

[Qalnor]

Personally if it were me I would take a full party unless you're just looking to make the game more challenging. There is more than enough experience available in each of the scenarios to make you the highest level the scenario will easily permit by the end of each scenario.. The only slight exception is the fourth, if you start the fourth immediately after the third you may not end up as high as you might be by the end of the fourth unless you play it through twice.

 

But if you do wish to play with two characters then I would personally say that those two would be as good as any two.

 

I would strongly recommend that you build up a good tool use on one character or the other (probably the mage priest.. even with two competing disciplines he'll probably have more spare points than a warrior)

 

As far as special skills go, they do not, in general, work as they did in the original game. While there are a few NPC's who will train characters in special skills, in any good scenario they will be rare and not the normal method of advancing a skill.

 

Instead, special skills are trained in the same manner as normal skills, except for the fact that they do not exist unless your character meets certain special requirements.

 

For example, Anatomy requires a 6 intelligence and 8 in either melee weapons or pole weapons to activate. After which your character may train it as he would any other skill.

 

There are 9 such skills which may be discovered by increasing normal skills, and an extra 3 which require both normal skills and the additional help of some special skills in order to advance.

[Kelandon]

I made a list of the special skills and the prereqs for them here , although I'm finding that this list is not entirely accurate, even beyond the idiosyncracies documented in the later posts of the thread. It's pretty close, though.

 

If someone wants to correct the list, feel free. I'll do it one of these days, but if someone else wants to do it, go ahead.

 

EDIT: Gah, I read over the remaining posts in that topic, and it's not nearly as clear as it should be. Basically, BoA keeps track of several different values for any skill: its base, its bought, and its total. (If you want to see this clearly, play Nethergate.)

 

The base value is influenced by the character's race -- nephils apparently get a bonus to Dexterity -- and the character's traits -- Divinely Touched adds some to the base value of Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence.

 

Special skills don't care about that base; they only care about the bought value. You increase the bought by training in the skill. I don't know if the scripts add to the base or the bought. Items add to the base. The list I wrote in the other thread comes from a base of 2 for Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence, and 3 for Endurance (ie human with no traits).

[Alorael at Large]

In my opinion, sliths make good polearm fighters and nephils make good thieves/archers. For anything else, stick with human. Nephils get a bonus to their dexterity, which makes them slightly less likely to be hit and slightly more likely to act earlier in the turn order, but neither advantage is particularly beneficial for mages. An extra AP would be good, but nephils don't get one.

 

Elite warrior is a no-brainer for any fighter except a slith. Since the slith polearm bonus doesn't stack with the elite warrior bonus and is almost as good, save yourself the experience penalty and take one or the other.

 

Fast on Feet is also something I consider almost a necessity on melee characters. The AP is nice when you get it, but the real benefit is being able to move your characters first. Getting the tanks between the enemies and your casters means the Brittle Bones you put on those bookish types won't leave them helpless and exposed.

 

Natural Mage lets mages survive the occasional melee attacker, and it boosts their spells. That's an easy choice. For priests it isn't quite as valuable, but if you're not giving your priests at least a little bit of mage ability (and vice versa) you're not getting your money's worth out of the characters.

 

—Alorael, who brings this trait analysis to you on behalf of Silverlocke's potion shoppe. If you need skill points immediately, just drop by Silverlocke's! Open 24 hours a day unless your reputation is low.

[Qalnor]

An extra AP is basically irrelvent for a mage anyhow (it translates to being able to advance an extra space in addition to casting), I think the sequence bonus is well worth it personally.

 

Picking Nephil gives a mage a minor exp penalty and a massive sequence boost which is life or death for a party, particuarly in outdoor battles.

[Gorvin]

Quote:

Originally written by Qalnor:
To top it all off, they [Nephils] get a truly free 2 levels extra of dexterity. And by truly free I mean it doesn't increase the cost of increasing dex, so the bonus effectively gets better as you spend more in dex (ie when you get to 20 dex you only had to spend 18 dex worth of creation points).

Actually, that +2 bonus becomes even greater as you advance in levels. More specifically, the Nephil dex bonus is equal to 2 + level / 7. My level 40
Nephil priest has 9 dex currently (only 1 less than my Slith warrior), without having spent a single point on it. A +2 bonus at level 1 might not seem like a whole lot, but at higher levels this bonus adds up to a huge amount of "free" skill points.

It's also worth mentioning that the bonuses from Divinely Touched work in the same way (except it affects Str, Dex, and Int and each bonus is equal to 1 + level / 7). Personally I think this bonus is insanely overpowered and wouldn't take it simply because it completely unbalances the game at higher levels.

[Qalnor]

Yeah I noticed that after I posted, I meant to edit my post.

[Qalnor]

Kel,

 

your numbers are correct on the skill chart.. the only different one I noticed was blademaster has a requirement of 8 strength that you omitted.

 

On a side note, this thread has inspired me to make a rather.. interesting character. He's going to be quite ridiculous at quite a low level if he works out.

[Kelandon]

Thanks, Qualnor. I knew there were two mistakes, and I could only think of one of them. Just because it'll be nice to be able to refer to this later, this is my best understanding of the special skills:

 

You need bought values of these numbers or greater to be able to train in the special skills. All characters start with a bought value of 2 for Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence, and a bought value of 3 for Endurance. Race, special traits, and related skills may increase the base value of skills without increasing the bought value. For further discussion of this, see my above post and/or play Nethergate.

 

Quick Strike: Dexterity 8, Melee or Pole Weapons 6

Parry: Dex 8, Defense 6

Blademaster: Melee 6, Pole 6, Strength 8

Anatomy: Intelligence 6, Melee or Pole 8

Gymnastics: Strength 8, Dex 10

Pathfinder: Int 8, Nature Lore 6 (note that base Nature Lore depends on Intelligence)

Magery: Int 10, Mage or Priest Spells 6

Resistance: Dex 10, Endurance 11, Hardiness 8

Magical Efficiency: Magery 8, End 11

Lethal Blow: Anatomy 8, Blademaster 8

Riposte: Parry 8, Blademaster 6

Sharpshooter: Dex 6, Bows or Thrown Weapons 8

Dread Curse: gained through events in the scenario

--------------

I know that the initial 2 2 2 3 is bought, not base, because a human with no traits has an Arcane Lore of 1 (INT/2) and Tool Use of 1 (DEX/2).

 

You can see pretty clearly the effects that race and traits have on skills using the HLPM, by the way.

[Dragongirl]

where did you get this info? I looked at the manual and there is no mention of special skills.

 

Some more questions on 4 pc party -

 

1. slith pole warrior

2. nephil melee warrior (possible missile added later)

3. nephil priest

4. nephil mage

 

would this be ideal? with 4 pc, I am not sure about 3 and 4. It seems there are two camps of thoughts about nephil pc, and I have no idea which to believe.

 

Also, if the party level is more than listed in a chosen scenario, would there be penalty then?

[Kelandon]

As I said in the other topic, I got this information using the Character Editor. You can also mess around with high level parties using the HLPM (download from the link in my sig). I think one of the game-opening tips mentions special skills, and they are listed on page three of the Editor Appendices. Nothing lists what skills you need in order to train in them, though, so I just mucked around with the Character Editor for a while.

 

I don't think there really is a perfect party. You just use what you can work with.

[Dragongirl]

what is the max number of these skills (or the max necessary number)?

 

eg. in the trilogy 20 barter is only needed/party.

[Lilith]

There's no absolute point above which any stat stops being worth increasing, although getting Tool Use or total Nature Lore above 20 or so is pretty pointless in current scenarios, as is increasing Resistance when your resistances are all above 100% already.

[Kelandon]

I think after some point Pathfinder stops being useful to increase, but I don't know what that point is. Lethal Blow above 15 or so is a bit excessive (30000 damage, anyone?), but I don't know that it stops increasing in power.

 

With Magical Efficiency of about 30 or 40, Arcane Shield costs something like 3 spell points. Hee hee hee...

[Qalnor]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:
I think after some point Pathfinder stops being useful to increase, but I don't know what that point is. Lethal Blow above 15 or so is a bit excessive (30000 damage, anyone?), but I don't know that it stops increasing in power.

Lethal blow does not, in my experience, ever make you do 30000 damage. I believe what lethal blow does, no matter how high your skill level is, is either multiply your damage by 3 (possibly 4, but I would wager 3).

What increasing the skill does is increase the likelihood of scoring a lethal blow, nothing more and nothing less. And truth be told even at ridiculous levels lethal blows will happen less than half of the time.

To be perfectly honest, I think the skill is bloody useless. It grants a few lucky hits now and then but unless you save and reload a lot you can't count on lucky hits to take down big foes.

Maybe at some point it becomes worth training it up a bit simply because everything is so expensive.

This is from limited testing, but I can say that you'll never do 30000 damage strictly because you spent too many points on lethal blow.

[Kelandon]

Well, I was talking about a level 250 god party that had god weapons, too. They land lethal blows some unbelievable percentage of the time mainly because all of their equipment gives +25 to all skills, so really, they have Lethal Blow at almost 200 (and Strength, Melee Weapons, and Assassination at that level, too).

 

In order to have a legitimate party with one character who has Lethal Blow at 15, if the character has distributed his/her skills into all of the useful fighter categories and not just in pursuit of Lethal Blow, I would expect that character to be about level 60 or 70. At that point I think one can reasonably expect to do damage in the thousands on occasion, although 30000 is more the domain of obscene god parties.

[Rinoa Heartily]

hi kelandon,

 

in order to create a fighter/priest combo, starting do i need to worry abt increasing endurance? i just added dex and str to 8 each.. is that good?

[Kelandon]

Err, Drakey probably knows better than me how to make a fighter/priest.

 

EDIT: Dex and Str to 8 each? What are you using for this? The Character Editor?

[Rinoa Heartily]

oh sorry... he he.. i think it was 6 6.. didn't quite remember

[Rinoa Heartily]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:
Err, Drakey probably knows better than me how to make a fighter/priest.

EDIT: Dex and Str to 8 each? What are you using for this? The Character Editor?

sorry if this sound silly.. which types are ur expertise?

[Kelandon]

I'm actually not one of the better players on here. TM (who goes by Machine Umsturz right now, but is recognizable by being member number 4), Drakefyre (who is obvious as the admin), and Thuryl (who has a custom title of "...b10010b..."), among others, know what they're talking about far more than I do, at least in terms of playing.

 

I know some aspects of designing reasonably well, though.

[Dragongirl]

Unlike the trilogy, nephil seems to do better here, much to my surpriese.

 

Even without missile stat, it still able to damage opponent with bow at first level - that's rather impressive for I don't recall that slith can do that even with some bow stat.

 

So, I drop my slith and change it to all 4 nephil party.

 

I also come to conclusion that although divinely touch trait is nice, it doesn't seem to be worth the penalty since the added stat didn't contribute to any bonus unlike nephil dex starter that upgrade tool from the start.

[Drakefyre]

For a fighter/priest:

 

Strength: 6

Dexterity: 3/4

Intelligence: 5/4

Endurance: 4

Melee: 1/2

Hardiness: 1/2

Priest Spells: 6

 

Or some variation of that.

[GavinFox]

A question.. does Assassination help archery or missile shots? What about Anatomy? Just wondering!

[GavinFox]

Sorry for a possible double post, but could anyone help me with my question? And also, could someone explain how _all_ the special skills work, and what they do? Thanks!

[Blaspheme]

Parry:Dext 8 + Def 6

Blademaster:Melee 6 + Pole 6 + Str 8

Quick attack: Dext 8 + Melee or Pole 6

Anatomy:Int 6 + Melee or Pole 8

Gym:Str 8 + Dext 10

Lethal Blow: Anatomy 8 + Blademaster 8

Riposte:Parry 8 + Blademaster 6

Sharpshooter:Dext 6 + Bows or TW 8

Pathfinder:Int 8 + Nature Lore 6

Magery:Int 10 + Mage or Priest 6

Mag.Efficienty:Magery 8 + End 11

 

The values after the skills names aren't your total in this skill, but the number of points you've spend in this skill.

If you want to know what they do, just get them...

[GavinFox]

Well, that still doesnt answer questions like "Does anatomy or Assassination work with thrown and bow weapons?"

[Schrodinger]

No in both cases. There's another skill that focuses mainly on archery skill bonuses (sharpshooter).

[Archmagus Micael]

Quote:

Originally written by Blaspheme:
Parry:Dext 8 + Def 6
Blademaster:Melee 6 + Pole 6 + Str 8
Quick attack: Dext 8 + Melee or Pole 6
Anatomy:Int 6 + Melee or Pole 8
Gym:Str 8 + Dext 10
Lethal Blow: Anatomy 8 + Blademaster 8
Riposte:Parry 8 + Blademaster 6
Sharpshooter:Dext 6 + Bows or TW 8
Pathfinder:Int 8 + Nature Lore 6
Magery:Int 10 + Mage or Priest 6
Mag.Efficienty:Magery 8 + End 11

The values after the skills names aren't your total in this skill, but the number of points you've spend in this skill.
If you want to know what they do, just get them...

What sort of skill is END? Because I really want to know. Spells take up too many spell points for my liking. (thats probably because I'm testing a scenario overrun with undead)

[Lilith]

End is endurance.

[bobleblob]

To discover the new special skills, open the character editor, add manyskill points, and see the skills appear with their descriptions...

[Randomizer]

*bump* To preserve material