Monarch Revisted

[Retlaw May]

Please excuse me if someone did suggest this, but did anyone surmise that Shaper Monarch was Goettsch from G1? I mean, he did have an "empire" and his strange apperance even to regular canister users could be a result of a slight change in canisters since 200+ years ago (or maybe the age of the canisters meant something). Monarch says that he forgot about his past on purpose, Goettsch had a lot he probably would have liked to forget.

[Randomizer]

This was the last discussion, Monarch is You . We mostly considered people that weren't killed by everyone.

[Retlaw May]

Ah, but you forget that the previous games after G1 were very vague. It says something like, "That Shaper escaped and told the Council of what was happening." They never mentioned what happened to the other Shaper.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

But they do say that almost nothing on Sucia Island survived. The only things that escaped were things that Zachary and Barzahl took with them to Drypeak. I doubt that they would have helped a mad shaper get of that island. If Monarch was Goettch, I can't imagine why Jeff would change his name and try to be secretive about it, other than the fact that Goettsch and Grosch sound so similar.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Almost nothing. Considering his power, he probably hid himself somehow. He probably knew how to create a Water Drayk, or whatever its called. Earlier he had enouh power to hold his own agaainst the Sholai, but could not have fought off the Shapers. When they came, he must have fled to the mainland, searcing for a new place to build his empire. He was skilled enough to hide from the Shapers using any canisters he could find. Eventually, the Rebellion came and with all the fighting managed to build his empire. By then he would have lost his memory and become the Shaper Monarch we know today.

[Archaeolagent]

Presumably, if he knew how to create a living craft (is that what you mean by water drayk?), he would have done so, left, and perhaps come back with more resources to get rid of Trajkov with.

[Retlaw May]

No, because he would have immediately been seen as a freak and the Shapers would have tracked him down because aditional resources would have required reveiling himself. Also, he wwould have been to proud to do as what would be seen as fleeing. You are his additional resources.

[Archaeolagent]

Uh... and this is different from what you are suggesting, that he flees when forced to, how? How would the fact that the Shapers are on alert about dangerous things from Sucia going to make him seem less of a freak?

 

Regardless, it's clear that he is trapped on Sucia in G1, isn't it?

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Slartucker:

 

Quote:

Regardless, it's clear that he is trapped on Sucia in G1, isn't it?

He's not trapped. He's just totally unwilling to leave. All he wants is Trajkov dead and the power of the Geneforge for himself, so he's not going to attempt an escape. He seems confident about getting off the island eventually, though, since he orders your character to take the last boat and get off of the island so he can use the Geneforge without interference.

 

It still doesn't prove that Goettsch became Monarch, it just doesn't rule it out.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Yeah, well we can't rule out that he's Garzahd, either. It does't make sense for Monarch to be any returning character other than the PC. People like to see returning characters, especially ones as interesting as Goettsch. Jeff would not take a character like that and give him a new identity without giving us a single clue as to who it was. That would defeat the purpose of him returning entirely.

[Delicious Vlish]

Goettsch from G1 was also an apprentice who had the misfortune of washing ashore. He was not yet a full shaper, but the canisters made him so.

 

With this in mind, the fact that Monach uses a control rod to control his creations, which is seen as a very crude way to do business by all of the full shapers around, leads me to believe that this could in fact, be plausable. Using a control rod is something that an apprentice might do, and Goettsch was probably exposed to 'older technology' when trapped on the island.

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

Also, he could have made a boat. All he had to do was command his serviles to make a boat.

[Archaeolagent]

Goettsch was not an apprentice! He was a full shaper, on his way to some fledgeling colony to help lead it.

 

Diki's right though, I reread the dialogue and he's clearly not trapped. However, I doubt his serviles could build him a suitable boat. If they could, then surely the PC could just order the serviles in Pentil to build him one.

 

One thing that's unclear is whether Goettsch thinks, as the PC does, that Sucia island is far out in the ocean and isolated, when (as the ending reveals) it's really just a little bit east of Dillame. (Yes, that Dillame.)

[Delicious Vlish]

I seem to recall some text stating that they had tried to waylay an apprentice previous to you in Geneforge. I could be wrong, it has been a long time.

[nikki.]

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
I seem to recall some text stating that they had tried to waylay an apprentice previous to you in Geneforge. I could be wrong, it has been a long time.

I remember it saying they tried to use a full Shaper, but it didn't work out. And then they trapped you.

I shall hunt for quotes later - on the wrong computer.

[Archaeolagent]

question = "Tell me how you came to Sucia Island.";

text1 = "He laughs. _The same way you did. I was imprisoned, captured by Trajkov. I was being sent to a new colony, to take it over and administer it. A mild honor, at best, though not a position without hope of advancement._";

text2 = "_Then his ship slew my craft, and I swam to shore at the east edge of this island. There, I was abducted._";

 

Although this does explicitly state Goettsch was not an apprentice, this doesn't sound like an apprentice type thing, and indeed we know from G2-4 that it's not. I can't find any references to other apprentices, either.