WHEW!

[Zummi]

Finally finished A5..it was a bit anti-climatic but meh..

 

There's just one thing bothering me..when you killed Dorikas..a conversation appears, right? It gives you two options..one is to kill him and one to subdue him..I chose the former and blah blah blah the ending ensues..

 

My question is..what happens when you subdue him?

[Randomizer]

There is also a variation where Dionico helps in the final battle that is slightly different dialog.

 

SPOILER

Click to reveal..

Dorikas commits suicide.

 

[Toby-Linn]

I have also just finished Avernum 5!

 

I was glad I had Dionico's help....he stood up pretty well to the attacks, in my opionion.

 

I also agree it was sorta anti-climatic....also, all that work and General Redmark takes the credit?! I would have liked to have more glory. With the empire now having a hidden fortress in Avernum lands, I wonder how that will effect Avernum 6.

[+geezer+]

What seemed odd to me is both the begin-game and end-game dialogs are addressing me in first person singular, as the player of the game, rather than as a four character team (assuming a party of four). Which of the four characters is being addressed, and how do you know which of the four I believe --I-- am (if I am only one of the party, not suffering from multiple personality disorder)?

[Lilith]

Really? I could have sworn they used the second person, which is the same in the plural as it is in the singular.

[Tyranicus]

Yeah, it was second person.

[Toby-Linn]

No, that's true it was singular, that is funny.

 

It says, "You become leader of Blackchasm Outpost...etc...and when you look into the mirror you see an Avernite..." (or words to that effect.

 

But the picture shows four adventures kneeling in front of Emperor Redmark, so that's your party....but I guess if you played a singleton then it would be right to have the first person singular?

 

I read that if you join Dorikas you have to kill General Redmark so you go more into Blackchasm Fortress...the part that was gated and guarded? Do we ever get to see that part if we stay loyal to the Empire and kill Dorikas instead of joining him?

 

Another thing I found weird was after I exposed Seargeant Cienna as a traitor and killed her I didn't even get to see General Redmark or have a meeting with him.....something like that happens you think you'd have to be briefed by someone!

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: TobyLinn

No, that's true it was singular, that is funny.

It says, "You become leader of Blackchasm Outpost...etc...and when you look into the mirror you see an Avernite..." (or words to that effect.

Well, remember: the party walks in single file when they're not in combat mode, so if they lined up in front of a mirror they'd only see whoever was at the front.

[Randomizer]

You only get to see the Inner Blackchasm part if you take the Darkside Loyalist mission and even then you have to cross the gate so you still have a chance to back out and go after Dorikas.

 

The Static Fields Portal is the worst current assignment so no one cares if nothing gets reported after dealing with Cienna. I know that I wandered around Blackchasm Outpost looking for a dialog change.

[Toby-Linn]

Yeah, I wandered all over as well and went to go see if General Redmark was in his office but he wasn't.

 

Would've been nice though, to be commended for dealing with that traitor.

 

Maybe I'll join the Darkside Loyalists next time I play so I get to see the Inner part of Blackchasm Outpost.

 

Even though it goes against all my principles....

[Sleeping Dragon]

Originally Posted By: TobyLinn

With the empire now having a hidden fortress in Avernum lands, I wonder how that will effect Avernum 6.

I don't understand why the Empire was so excited to have that fortress. It isn't exactly located in the most strategic location, is it? It's in the middle of nowhere with it's closest neighbors being a dragon and the vahnatai, both of which hate the Empire worse than Avernum does.

[Evnissyen]

This seems to have turned rather quickly into a spoiler thread.

 

Sleeping:

The strategy is that it's located at the very end of the frontier, thereby essentially claiming all of Avernum for the Empire. The only problem is that, unless the region is somehow buttressed, a moderately strong cavequake is likely to very easily throw the entire fortress into the chasm. So says the game, and the game is always right.

 

Thuryl:

But what if you only have eyes for your fellow adventurer(s)? Then the single-file thing does not work.

 

Anyhow, I've always assumed that the singular form of address (A4 did this too, I think, if I remember correctly) was done to be inclusive of singletons.

 

Anyhow, as far as Dionicio goes: my experience was that he was almost no help at all. All he did was punch Dorikas a few times, drip a little acid in his wounds, then follow me around at a slow pace and watch me kill him . . . then step on the guy's head once I finally put him (Dorikas) out of his misery.

 

I did find the ending a little implausible . . . I mean, how does a guy with a crushed head ("Just to make sure", Dionicio says) later get up, write a martyrdom note and then die?

 

No, it definitely wasn't suicide. If anything he'd written the note beforehand and then one of his followers, evading my detection and the detection of Redmark's people, somehow snuck in, placed it on the throne and snuck out again... somehow. After all, Redmark 'found him in the place I killed him'. With a crushed head.

 

In A6: I want to kill Redmark.

 

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Evnissyen

This seems to have turned rather quickly into a spoiler thread.

In A6: I want to kill Redmark.

If you take the Darkside Loyalist path then your wish is granted.

[Toby-Linn]

I wish I could have given Dionicio a weapon! All that punching people....

 

Actually Avernum would know about the empire fortress, cause he would have told the King.

 

I want to kill Redmark too, I don't like him. I know how I'm playing next time!

 

But....how will Avernum 6 be written, given the two different endings of Avernum 5?

[Sleeping Dragon]

I'm fairly sure I remember reading a topic here where Spidweb himself said that siding with Redmark and killing Dorikas was the obvious choice. The Avernum series, unlike Geneforge, tends to have clear protagonists and antagonists and the good guys always seem to win. Unless he decides to throw us a curve ball. Having Dorikas win would certainly make for an interesting sequel, though I was actually a fan of General Redmark, if only for his heritage.

[Men are from Slars]

One possibility would be to say that Dorikas and Redmark were *both* assassinated. This would actually work fine with the story.

 

I do think, though, that Jeff wouldn't have introduced a major character related to Erika Redmark just to have him hand out quests in one game.

 

But we all know what's really going to happen in A6. Prazac and Bon-Ihrno are going to come back from the dead and restore world peace...

[Student of Trinity]

The game dialog and ending texts seem to imply that your party consists of one dynamic leader with up to three henchbeings. But actually that would be an interesting option somewhere between Geneforge and Avernum: to have one main character, plus some distinctly less powerful assistants to round out the party. That could combine some of the most fun elements of both singleton and party games.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

The game dialog and ending texts seem to imply that your party consists of one dynamic leader with up to three henchbeings. But actually that would be an interesting option somewhere between Geneforge and Avernum: to have one main character, plus some distinctly less powerful assistants to round out the party. That could combine some of the most fun elements of both singleton and party games.

This is pretty much what Fallout and Fallout 2 do, although in that case the superiority of the player character comes mostly from the NPCs' bad AI (in particular, they won't perform aimed attacks, so they rarely get critical hits).

I suppose a more recent example of a similar principle in action would be the JRPG Persona 3. NPCs are controlled by a fairly competent and customisable AI, but they don't have anywhere near the tactical versatility of the main character. There's a game mechanic allowing the PC to radically change his stats and skills (even in the middle of combat) to focus on physical attacks, healing or whatever else is needed at the time, while each NPC has a fixed loadout of skills. The NPCs are still useful, but they're situationally useful -- in the right situation they can output just as much damage as the PC, but in the wrong situation they're a liability and should be swapped out for another character.

I think what these two examples demonstrate is that making the leader special is best done not by boosting his stats way above everybody else's, but by letting the leader do something important that the other characters can't.

[Men are from Slars]

"... It's no use! Use the Crystal!"

"You, the man of Darkness, using it does not mean anything to me, you fools!"

"Cecil... Use... this...!"

[Sudanna]

Nalyd feels left out.

[Callie]

Nevermind

 

 

[Sudanna]

Nalyd feels even more left out. Don't mind him, he's used to it.

[Tcheedchee]

Poor Nalyd…