ADV Shaping (Battle Gamma & Co.)

[Lowbacca]

Quote:

Originally written by MagmaDrakoon:
[Just curious - they can be shaped by the player?

And all the other, strange creations (like "energized Artila", "Oozing Thand", etc...)... You would like to be able to shape them?]

[...!]

What an idea! What about change the shaping-creation system? Instead of simply click-and-shape what about a mini-game? Something like a logic-game: put all genes in correct order to obtain normal creation, or try to change genes positions for amazing effects! Maybe, you can still shape normally during travelling, but if you go in a shaper lab, with adeguate skills (here another function for shaping skills!)/equipment (resarch notes, shaping equipment or other) you can try to create something new! And if you make something good you can choice to "record" (maybe the "records" can be limited, or maybe you need some rare items) it and being able to shape it during traveling! Maybe you can discover secret creations! And maybe make them strong or special by using items on them during shaping! Man, maybe you can be able to shape a new pack-creation or a creation-humanoid that can use equipment... And new quests like: "Shape a secret weapon"...

Comments?

Hmmm... Actually, you create creations by precise movements of the body...I would know, ive played GF2 way too much.

At the beginning, if youre a shaper, Shanti teaches you how to create an Artilla...By a series of hand gestures and movements...

So, you really dont use and comprehend the complexions of genes, you just DO it. Sooo, yeah. Cya Later Ladies

[Archaeolagent]

Just because hand gestures are involved doesn't mean understanding isn't.

[Lilith]

Here's an idea inspired by all the talk about customising creations.

 

It's generally agreed that the ability to keep old creations around and level them up makes the higher-tier creations a little bit redundant.

 

So how about the ability to fuse creations together, so that a new creation can gain some of the power of one that you've been keeping around for a while but don't want any more?

 

When you want to get rid of an old creation to make room for a new one, instead of absorbing the old creation, you can choose to fuse the old creation's essence into another of your creations; the new one gets, say, 25% of the total experience earned by the old creation since it was created.

 

That way, the incentive to keep creations alive in order to level them up is preserved, but higher-tier creations are given a bit of a boost in usefulness. It won't exactly stop people from continuing to run around doing crazy things with an army of Vlish, but it might make upgrading more attractive.

[MagmaDragoon]

This may be a good idea. I was always reluctant to create new creations, because they were always weaker than my old one.

[Delicious Vlish]

How about this... you go through all the trouble of raising a fyora to say, level 25 or 30, and he goes through a metamorphasis like a catapillar and becomes a charged fyora. All the more reason to keep old creations around. Make it level dependant, not some silly mini game of Dr Mario trying to get the right genes lined up.

 

Take a Beta or an Alpha to say, level 45 or so and they would become a Gamma.

 

A vlish would become a submission Vlish or perhaps one of those types of Vlish that heal others, a real asset to a shaper.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Quote:

Originally written by Delicious Vlish:
How about this... you go through all the trouble of raising a fyora to say, level 25 or 30, and he goes through a metamorphasis like a catapillar and becomes a charged fyora. All the more reason to keep old creations around. Make it level dependant, not some silly mini game of Dr Mario trying to get the right genes lined up.

Take a Beta or an Alpha to say, level 45 or so and they would become a Gamma.

A vlish would become a submission Vlish or perhaps one of those types of Vlish that heal others, a real asset to a shaper.

Good God no! That would turn Geneforge into Pokemon!

[Delicious Vlish]

No it wouldn't. It would be a good reward system for Loyalists to care for their creations and keep them for the long haul instead of having disposable shock troops.

[MagmaDragoon]

I agree, since gain a level for a creation is a little useless, because you have still to put essence.

[Archaeolagent]

On the one hand, that sounds like a cool system.

 

On the other hand, as things stand now, it would be a purely cosmetic change. The only difference between a Fyora and a Charged Fyora is base level. The only difference between Battle Alphas, Betas, and Gammas is base level. So the creations would still need to be differentiated.

[enzo7za]

As Delicious Vlish said, the metamorphosized creation could have some bennificial effect for the party, i.e. a battle Beta/ Gamma that has taken a hard hit, let's spores fly out of his wound that blesses nearby creations.

 

Maybe some of those spine creatures can be implemented in G4, that when your creature get's hit, it poisons or damages the attacker.

 

Ice creatures could freeze enemies, since this has now been implemented in A4

[Delicious Vlish]

Now giving battle creations spines is a good idea. All that damage returned would keep enemy hostility focused on the front lines.

[Student of Trinity]

While we're dreaming, it would be cool if you could evolve your creations by giving them special attributes, like Spines or Poison or whatever, instead of just upping their basic stats.

[Archaeolagent]

That would be wonderful. Man -- that would increase the design space of Geneforge about a zillion times. Here's to dreaming.

[Igor]

That would be quite cool. The added abilities would probably require quite a bit of essence, though. For balance purposes.

[Nick Ringer]

I wouldn't want a puzzle per se, but I'd like to use some kind of sequence or simple arrangement to Shape. Although it'd suck if, at the beginning of the game you knew exactly how to create a Runed Battle Pi because you found it on the Internet.

[tridash]

Clockwork creations could perhaps be made and upgraded

[MagmaDragoon]

Quote:

Originally written by Nick Ringer:
Although it'd suck if, at the beginning of the game you knew exactly how to create a Runed Battle Pi because you found it on the Internet.

You are forgotting the Essence, the Battle Shaping and the Ability to do it.

[Delicious Vlish]

My, my, Battle Runed Pi

 

I started hearing Don Maclean when I read that.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Diki:

Quote:

Agreed. If anything random were added to the game, it would have to be set up so that the player can't immediately reload and get something different. After all, anyone who had the patience to get the complete Geneforge 1 easter egg will sit and reload until they finally get the battle gamma they are after.

That may be true. Then again, you could say the same thing about any event in the game, including death. Hey, you can continue to save and reload until you finally win that battle you have been trying to win for 5 days.

 

Wild magic was implemented in BG II ToB, to great effect. You could have saved and reloaded to get great effects from wild magic, but I doubt anyone did.

 

Being able to use some sort of 'Wild shaping' function would sure add variety and fun to the mix. Perhaps the power of the random creations could be limited by your level (a lvl 1 char couldn't summon an Ur-Drakon with Wild Shaping, for instance).

 

I don't know. However, I know that some creations just HAVE to be available in the next game, even just for aesthetics. Battle Gamma, Submission Vlish, Dominator Vlish/Shepherd Vlish, Poison Clawbug. I think that a Shaper should have creation substitutes for every spell that an agent can employ.

[Archaeolagent]

I don't know how Wild Magic worked in BG2, but I'm guessing that it didn't create permanent effects of potentially drastic power increases. Save and reload isn't very effective in most fights because there are a large number of tiny dice rolls made every turn. If you have a single dice roll that could give you a Fyora or an Eyebeast, something useless or something broken, permanently, for the rest of the game -- save and reload is very effective there.

 

And the key part is the permanent part. Even if the difference is just between a level 5 Vlish and a level 6 Vlish, that's a permanent power difference for the rest of the game. I don't like using save and reload, personally, but I would still find it very hard not to reload if I knew that I had been dealt a lesser option.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Waylander:
That may be true. Then again, you could say the same thing about any event in the game, including death. Hey, you can continue to save and reload until you finally win that battle you have been trying to win for 5 days.

For the record, any game where the best option is to save and reload for 5 days using the same strategy until you win a battle is a very poorly-designed game.

[Dikiyoba]

Waylander just said it was possible, not that it was the best way.

 

Dikiyoba thinks that anyone who spends five days on one battle is utterly crazy. The most Dikiyoba has ever spent is a few hours. Those augmented Sholai in G1 just have to be brought down!