Has Jeff neglected the Eyebeasts/Gazers

[Suspicious Vlish]

I'm rather surprised that for both GF2 and GF3, Eyebeasts/Gazers haven't played a more pivotal role in balancing the scales of the conflict.

 

In my eyes, perhaps the only real threat to the Drakon alliance is the Gazer.

 

Think about it:

 

- One on one, the only creation strong enough to take down a Drakon is the Gazer/Eyebeast (and perhaps the Rotgroth). However, the Gazer is a very intelligent being, which means that it can actually attack its creator in a calculated way, whereas a Rotgroth cannot.

 

- Gazers appear to have a rather intense hatred of Drakons, whereas they are rather ambivalent towards Shapers. After all, Shapers really haven't done much to harm Gazerkind (yet), whereas the Drakons seem to enjoy using Gazers as pawns, despite the fact that it is quite clear that Gazers aren't to be messed with.

It only follows that Gazers/Eyebeasts should have broken ties with the Drakons, to form their own little elitist organization.

 

- Drakons have the ability to Shape. However, this is offset by a Gazer's ability to control the minds of entire regiments! All in all, a Gazer's ability to control the mind of entire regiments is more deadly than a Drakon's ability to create. In fact, by charming the Drakon's creation, it can quite easily turn the tables.

 

- Gazers/Eyebeasts apparently have a sense of 'collectivity' (I may be mistaken on this). When present in packs, they appear to have a social structure similiar to 'The Many' from System Shock II. If this is true, such a unique 'collective' social structure reduces the probability of power struggles between eyebeasts and gazers.

 

So the question here is... why haven't gazers and eyebeasts banded together to form a collective, and take the battle to both the Drakons and the Shapers? They seem quite capable of kicking ass. Why doesn't Jeff exploit this potential?

[Archaeolagent]

First of all, one on one, an Eyebeast will die horribly against a Drakon. It does fire damage, which Drakons are very resistant to, and it does not resist the Drakon's breath. Its melee attack is actually a lot better, but the fear effect won't work on a drakon, so the drakon still comes out ahead. Gazers are on more of an even plane.

 

Where the heck did you get this idea about a Gazer Collective? Gazers have always been presented as individualistic and reluctant to cooperate with others.

 

That is also exactly why they have not amounted to anything the same way the Drakons have. Individual gazers seem to act sort of parallel to the more insular of the insane shapers, like Spharon or Shaila. They do not have the capacity for social organization that drakons do.

[Leftover Sauerkraut]

A group of drakons would crush a group of gazers simplay because they have more helath, their attack can hit multiple enemies, and they have higher quick action.

[John S]

Even if the Eyebeasts and Gazers could not survive an all-out war against the Drakons, I still don't understand why the little floaters don't just wander off into the wild on their own.

 

Also, does anyone see suspicious similarities between Eyebeasts and Vlish?

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Rakshasi:

 

Quote:

Also, does anyone see suspicious similarities between Eyebeasts and Vlish?

That's because the eyebeasts were created from vlish just like the drakons were created from drayks.

 

From Fenen in G2:

 

Quote:

question = "How have you improved vlish?";

text1 = "_That was Barzahl's work. He developed the gazer and the eyebeast from the basic vlish template. We haven't made many yet. But soon._";

Dikiyoba.

[The Mystic]

Quote:

Gazers/Eyebeasts apparently have a sense of 'collectivity' (I may be mistaken on this).

Every Eyebeast I've met refers to itself in the plural, and considered each of its eyes to be individuals. The same is true for the Gazers I've come across.

I haven't played G2/G3 all the way through yet, so I don't really know what their social structure would be like.

[Khoth]

I think the eyebeast collectivity is that an individual eyebeast sees itself as a collective (more than one brain in the body?)

[Nioca]

I see the collectivity as something along the lines of someone with Multiple Personality Disorder , without the multiple personalities. It refers to itself as multiple entities, but is obviously a single entity.

[The Mystic]

Quote:

Originally written by Khoth:
more than one brain in the body?

Interesting theory, to say the least. It may be a possibility with these creatures (maybe one brain per eye?), and that each brain would work independently. That way, when the Eyebeast/Gazer talks to you, it might be just one of these brains (the main one, for lack of a better term) speaking on behalf of all of them.

[Alberich]

Well, give the man some room, he's got to save something for the future. No doubt when the eyebeasts start shaping themselves, tripling their power and quadrupling their arrogance, they'll be ready to demand service from the latest generation of Ur-Ur-Ur-Drakons or whatever else is currently on top...

 

In GF 3 I saw the beginnings of the dissent caused by too many big egos in the same command (dangerous combination). Of course, the more intelligence, knowledge, and arrogance they shape into themselves, the cleverer and less restrained they'll be about shaping in even more.

 

I don't think real estate would be a good investment in the Geneforge world.

[Fort]

Quote:

tripling their power and quadrupling their arrogance

When I read this, I couldn't help but to imagine every new evolution of the eyebeast involving an increase in the number of eyes. By GF7 we would have just a floating mass of eyeballs without tentacles or a body. It would communicate by making sounds with its thousands of eyelids sloshing open and closed.

[Sudanna]

Kind of like Nalyd's vision of canister-users becoming bloated and exploding from all the essence built up inside of them.

[Alberich]

I'd never thought of that, Garrison...they could end up looking like some horrific sea anemones. Until the day they enhanced themselves with armor and became flying peek-a-boo corals...

[I_am_a_Minotaur]

First off, the number of Gazers, and Eyebeasts, don't come close to the amount of Drakons there are. While the most powerful Eyebeasts can control hundreds of enemies, these enemies are mostly Drayks, or something weaker, which the Drakons have no problem dealing with. There are some Rots, which are as strong, if not stronger, than Drakons, the sheer number of Drakons would dominate the Eyebeast.

 

Also, these stronger Eyebeasts are very solitary. Occasionally, some Eyebeasts, like the one in the Cells of Benerii-Uss, will have some Gazer followers, and will be a problem to the Drakons, but without unity, they won't be able to expell the Drakons from their supremecy.

 

Later on, once the Gazers figure out how to work together, they will be able to become equals, or more, to the Drakons.

[Alberich]

Or they could do what Garrison suggested - have each individual flower into a giant colony of eyes, so that even one of them would be a match for a battalion of drakons. Only they'd have to outpace the drakons themselves, who of course would be improving themselves (in power terms, not morally) at breakneck speed as well.

 

Maybe they'd have to modify their reproductive systems - breed like oysters, only with most of the kids surviving. And remember, once you've got a new set of adults, you don't need years to train them. Run them all through the geneforge and raise their skills to expert levels in minutes, magic, combat, and shaping skills all. Heck, perhaps one Gazer could learn to clone himself, and even if he wouldn't work with other Gazers, he'd be willing to work with a thousand copies of himself.

 

Of course, the drakons are a bit ahead of the game with "geneforgery" - they've already had their first experiment with germ warfare in GF2 (or at least were generously ready to give their antidote to any serviles who would surrender and become their servants) - so they might be able to head them off, though that would naturally put pressure on the gazers to modify themselves again and again.

 

Somehow, I don't feel at all sad that the gazers have been "neglected."

[*i]

Quote:

So the question here is... why haven't gazers and eyebeasts banded together to form a collective, and take the battle to both the Drakons and the Shapers? They seem quite capable of kicking ass. Why doesn't Jeff exploit this potential?

Just because they can (although there is some debate on this) does not mean they want to. Personally, having Gazers be a bit more solitary and mysterious is good for their species, setting them apart. Just making them more like Drakons would detract in my mind.

[Fort]

Not everything has to be power hungry. The eyebeasts and gazers retain a sense of magnanimity for seeking solitude in such troubled times. To be content with one's own power is something the Drakons need to learn.

 

I would like to see a dumbed down version of the eyebeast that is just a mass of eyes, though. I can just imagine that when you step on it, the thin facets of tissue holding them together would snap, releasing disgusting slime in all directions. The eyes would roll all over the floor, and each would become a mini-anemone-eyebeast. Then the cycle would repeat itself.

 

That's it; I'm going to bed.

[Drakefyre]

Oh no! A Geneforge Doomguard would be terrifying.

[Alberich]

No, not everything has to be power hungry - but juice it up with canisters and geneforges, and at the very least it will have a low regard for other life forms. Then put it in competition with the drakons and...do not feel safe.

 

Garrison, wouldn't you prefer to be walking through a forest, where the trees have little eyes that wink at you..then you pick one and, not only does gooey stuff get all over you, but you discover that the whole forest is a giant eyebeast who is now angry at you? Something like the grumpy apple trees in The Wizard of Oz, but with spells.

[earanhart]

Okay, i don't have GF3, so I'm running off GF2 stats, but it seems that whoever gets to go first of the Eyebeast and the Ur-Drakon wins. If they go first, a group of 6 Eyebeasts can demolish an army of Ur-drakons, especially if hasted, but 3-4 Ur-drakons can do the same to the small group Eyebeasts if they get the first blow.

So, if the Eyebeasts decide to work together, the best way for them to do so is to stay in small groups scattered all over the place, so they can make a few raids, then retreat back to their own caves, and can only be attacked 1-3 at a time.

 

Oh God, I can see it now, in the middle of the shaper army, or the Drakon army, or any other group you want, a force of 10 Eyebeasts just drops out of the sky and decimates it. Honestly, who watches the sky? Even if one or two get spotted, you have them approach from different directions to minimize the risk of a significant part of your force being destroyed.

[Alberich]

"I bring you a warning. Every one of you listening to my voice, tell the world! Tell this to everybody wherever they are: Watch the skies, everywhere! Keep looking! Keep watching the skies..."

[*i]

Drakons were pathetic in GF2, they are much stronger in GF4.

[Fort]

Alberich, if you are suggesting that the forest I walk into is actually one massive eyebeast whose fleshy appendages have become trunk like trees, then I love the idea. Actually, that wouldn't make a bad short animation either.

[Alberich]

Indeed, that was the idea - though I was also thinking that the eyebeast had developed armor protection for the stalks (the "eyebeast as flying coral" idea), so that the eyes are peeping out at you from a stony, standing, petrified forest.

[Upon Mars.]

Yeah but i think that gazers are not so in involved in battle because they didn't suffer an extermination like the drakys did which are determined to crush shapers to a certain point therefore more active against the shapers.

[Mr. Potato Thumbs]

From Melancon Eye:

 

text1 = "_I came from foul Zhass-Uss, where the foul Takers made me. They make my kind. Very few of us, for we are difficult to create. And then I was cast out._";

 

From Thot-Tha:

 

question = "Barzahl designed you?";

text1 = "_Barzahl's eyes saw the spark, the idea. But it was the Takers who created me. They are mighty._";

 

The drakons are encountering the same problems Shapers have with drayks: Gazers and eyebeasts are created rogue. Later in the Geneforge series, it is revealed that drakons cannot control powerful, rogue creations (Monastery Caves, Inner Gazak-Uss). This could be a reason why the Barzites did not pursue creating gazers and eyebeasts with the same intensity as the Takers.

 

Because of their rogue tendency, gazers and eyebeasts are far and few in-between. They are too independent and too few to become a force to challenge the drakons. The gazers are content with the power they have.

 

Again from Thot-Tha:

 

text2 = "_But I did not care for their madness and their desire to destroy Shapers. I do not fear you, Shaper, but I see no reason why I must fight with you. That is why I came south to help the Barzites._";

 

Would you want an ally dedicated to your cause entirely, or one who makes the aforementioned statement?

[Upon Mars.]

But then why don't they use rogue creation against the shapers and the drakons ?

Even so, drakons would be more active because they want revenge against the shapers on one side and on a other they would have to beat up gazers making them more active and efficient at kicking butts .

[Oni of Chaos]

Quote:

Originally written by upon mars:
Yeah but i think that gazers are not so in involved in battle because they didn't suffer an extermination like the drakys did which are determined to crush shapers to a certain point therefore more active against the shapers.

Only problem I have with that is that in G4 (can't remember if it is mentioned in other Geneforges) one of the Gazers that you meet says that "they" do not like Shapers because their kind is Barred.