Enemies With Two Turns Per Round?

[WingboltsSuck]

I'm not sure if this is a bug, or an intentional thing, but I've noticed that a few enemies seem to have two turns per round. The ironward constructs in Western Wastes or the spectral priest in the Icy Tunnels, for example. I'll attack with my character, then they'll attack. I'll attack with my creations, but then they'll attack again, before my character. They even have quick attack, so they're attacking four times in a single round. Has anyone else noticed this? It feels like an extremely cheap way of upping the difficulty.

[mikeprichard]

I've also noticed this and wondered about it; though I've finished my playthrough so I can't recall very specific examples, it seemed many enemies had this kind of inherent "double attack" ability, separate from/in addition to e.g. Haste or Quick Action used by Sholai or servile NPCs.

[TriRodent]

Shrug - I noticed it but didn't really think about it.  I generally assume that the further I get into most any game that the foes that I face will get stronger in some way.  Some have much larger amounts of hit points, some do more damage per hit, etc.  These just happen to act faster/more often.  If all I was doing was encountering, say the early thaads from Watchhill only lots more of them, things would get tedious quickly.  It just requires different tactics.

 

/my solo agent would stand outside of their visual range, stun them with airshock, burn them down with searer, & then move to the next one

//staying in combat mode for most of the Western Wastes also helps tremendously (if a pain in the nether regions if you have a bunch of creations to move around too)

[Mechalibur]

It's definitely intentional. They have a line in the scripts giving them the extra turn.

[mikeprichard]

In my case, I was simply trying to understand the mechanics - no real complaints about difficulty (though in some battles I had to go for a cup of coffee while waiting for my turn to come back while surrounded by 25 ticked-off shades...).

[Randomizer]

There are a few extra nasty scripted creations that have them. The claw bugs under the Crystal Burrows are another one.

[mikeprichard]

Good Lord, those stinging (?) double-move clawbugs were a massive pain in the tuckus the first time I ran into them. Was very satisfying to come back later and squash 'em.

[Ardent Trove]

I just ran across enemies with two turns per round for the first time today and originally thought it was something that should be implemented for all enemies, halving damage and whatnot for balance. However, now I'm not so sure after reading your post, WingboltsSuck.

 

In the encounters today, my character's party was attempting to inflict damage 10-11 times before the enemies got their second turn for the round. The only reason the enemies had any chance was because they were level 7 versus my level 5 character (so my party misses a lot), the extra turns, and I am playing on Torment. Without the extra turn giving them the ability to act early in the round, many would not have even been able to attack. Those that survived for their back-to-back second and third turns provided that good challenge that is needed periodically to keep a game fun.

 

It was good after the previous cakewalk enemies. If the previous enemies had this, at least they would have inflicted half-damage that would mean burning more resources.

 

However, seeing as how you WingboltsSuck feel extra turns are "cheap," I have to re-evaluate how players would feel about system a system. Are you bothered by the entire concept or are you bothered because enemies are suddenly "cheating" the system? If it were an accepted part of the system from the beginning, would it still bother you? How do you feel about the system after reflecting on the fact that players can essentially do the same thing, getting extra free turns by creating creations and using crowd control better?

[WingboltsSuck]

10 hours ago, Ardent Trove said:

I just ran across enemies with two turns per round for the first time today and originally thought it was something that should be implemented for all enemies, halving damage and whatnot for balance. However, now I'm not so sure after reading your post, WingboltsSuck.

 

In the encounters today, my character's party was attempting to inflict damage 10-11 times before the enemies got their second turn for the round. The only reason the enemies had any chance was because they were level 7 versus my level 5 character (so my party misses a lot), the extra turns, and I am playing on Torment. Without the extra turn giving them the ability to act early in the round, many would not have even been able to attack. Those that survived for their back-to-back second and third turns provided that good challenge that is needed periodically to keep a game fun.

 

It was good after the previous cakewalk enemies. If the previous enemies had this, at least they would have inflicted half-damage that would mean burning more resources.

 

However, seeing as how you WingboltsSuck feel extra turns are "cheap," I have to re-evaluate how players would feel about system a system. Are you bothered by the entire concept or are you bothered because enemies are suddenly "cheating" the system? If it were an accepted part of the system from the beginning, would it still bother you? How do you feel about the system after reflecting on the fact that players can essentially do the same thing, getting extra free turns by creating creations and using crowd control better?

I was mostly just wondering if it was intentional. I'm a bit conflicted, but I can accept it. It does feel a bit cheap, but I exaggerated when I said it felt "extremely cheap", and I can definitely see arguments for why it fits. Your second paragraph is an excellent example.

 

Honestly, my biggest issue is that with clawbugs, you're drowning in poison procs, which is my personal hell. I'm playing on veteren difficulty, though, so expecting the game to be a cakewalk would be unreasonable. So far, I haven't run into very many encounters that I couldn't get past with relative ease, so the difficulty the mechanic provides may be necessary. And like you said, you can counter it with creations and crowd control. Could there have been better ways of increasing the difficulty? Absolutely. But this method isn't intolerable.

[Sehnsucht]

I entered Western Wastes today and found those ironward constructs a nightmare.

 

Other than their 2-turn actions per-round ability, they also constantly respawn in a group of three. It seems that they know exactly where you are and will actively seek and attack you, catching you by surprise when you are fighting spawners. Their damage is also high enough to two shot you or your shaped minions. Crowd cc is unreliable since they resist it frequently.

 

My issue is these mechanics are poorly explained, you won't learn about it from inspecting and have to fight them for some time before you can figure out. There is no turn order indicator or similar things and you never know when they would act.

 

 

[alhoon]

I have noticed the spectral priest and those blasted clawbugs alright.... 

[Randomizer]

Jeff does warn you that the area is dangerous. He just doesn't tell you exactly why.