Are the AP items worth it?

[kuo]

Are they even worth putting on the characters I use the most?

I mean, Fleetfoot Boots are easily outmatched in terms of defense and resistance bonuses.

As for the Shock Troop Shield, I would much prefer the Warrior's Shelter once I get it. Even then, other shields give bonuses to healing and HER that Shock Troop doesn't provide.

And I haven't acquired Veneth's Spear yet, but who wants spears on Torment.

[Jerakeen]

They're only really useful if you have two on the same character, so they get to act twice in a round. Which, as you've noticed, may not be very practical. I don't bother with them in Avadon 2.

[Aoslare]

They're useful if you have two on the same character AND rarely use Battle Fury or Haste effects. Since Battle Fury is one of the strongest effects in the game, and the items have trade-offs anyway... usually, they aren't useful.

[Lilith]

They're still at least marginally useful in combination with Battle Frenzy, since hitting 15 AP lets you use an item while still attacking twice in the same round, which can make it easier to stay healed up without disrupting your offensive momentum.

[kuo]

Maybe if the AP boost was permanent, I would consider it, but there's too much luck in it for me.

(Please, please, PLEASE GIVE ME 10 AP. Please, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PARRY...NOOOOOOOO!!!)

snip

That's what I try to do, (all Blademaster buffs AND both scarabs) but it still doesn't cut it for me.

[Kelandon]

Yeah, I don't understand the logic of a probabilistic +1 AP rather than a definite +1 AP. It seems incredibly lame. I think in general I prefer deterministic combat outcomes to probabilistic combat outcomes because I don't like my combats to depend on luck; I want them to depend on careful strategy.

 

The AP items are sometimes useful for ranged-based characters to be able to run back and then attack at a distance farther than a character can run up to them (snipe, retreat, snipe, retreat), but that's only occasionally relevant.

[Randomizer]

Jeff went over to probabilistic +1 AP because a character with fixed +2 AP became too powerful in his opinion. Having about a 40% chance of getting both extra AP makes it hard to plan ahead. Still if you time it right you can move and attack in melee with a stun attack so it doesn't matter as much if you don't get it again for a few rounds.

[*i]

Rather than making it random, the +AP bonus could be staggered. For example, with one item you could get +1 AP every three turns, with two items +1 AP every other turn and +2 AP every fourth turn, etc. This way the bonus is predictable without being an effective constant battle frenzy.

[springacres]

I have to say I found the Fleetfoot Boots somewhat useful in earlier stages of the game. The others, not quite so much. By the time I had characters that could use the Shock Troop Shield, they were wielding halberds and had enchanted armor with decent protection bonuses already. As for Veneth's Spear, by the time I obtained it I had found better weapons elsewhere.

 

However, I can see a combined AP bonus coming in handy in some scenarios, particularly the endgame fights.

[Alorael at Large]

Rather than making it random, the +AP bonus could be staggered. For example, with one item you could get +1 AP every three turns, with two items +1 AP every other turn and +2 AP every fourth turn, etc. This way the bonus is predictable without being an effective constant battle frenzy.

This runs into the same problem as the wait command does in the original Avernum trilogy (and the Fleet of Foot trait in the same). It behooves you to waste turns until you get the bonus if you can anticipate combat, for instance before opening a door. But maybe always giving the bonus on the first turn of combat, and then every so many turns subsequently, would be a perfectly solid mechanic. It doesn't seem unbalanced or overpowered to just give a speed boost on every first turn.

 

—Alorael, who also prefers items that just give a reliable +1 AP even if it comes with other penalties. Any luck-based mechanics favors enemies over the party too much.

[Aoslare]

Actually, the first turn is precisely when getting extra actions is the most powerful. Think about how Adrenaline Rush was pretty much the single most critical ability of any sort in the games that had it; that gave 2 extra actions on the first turn, and nothing thereafter.

 

Extra actions is quite simply just bad territory to go into, except in very limited ways -- particularly because it multiplies player power rather than adding to it, so it further increases the gap between players who do and do not optimize their characters. On the other hand, players like Haste type effects because they like the extra power. So, the sort of nerfed effects we see are Jeff's attempt at compromising. I think there are better ways to do it, but none of them involve permanent extra AP from items.

[kuo]

We could make items that decrease the amount of AP you consume from certain actions.