Garrulous Glaahk Timmy, Power Gamer Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I have been playing through the game (about level 23, just killed Sss-Thsss) and my main warrior has 20 melee and 10 blademaster. Is it normal that all shortswords exceed the damage of all broadswords at this point? I was originally very excited for broadswords as they did more damage and could cleave, but can't be used in the offhand slot. For whatever reason (likely poor scaling) my Steel Broadsword does about 30 less damage on average than a Crude Shortsword. Is there any method to this madness, or are shortswords just monstrous late-game? EDIT: Here are the images: Weapon Damage Images The broadswords out DPS the shortswords for all of my characters that have 0 melee weapons. Otherwise, the shortswords out DPS the broads. I can't figure out what's going on with my game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk ShieTar Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Are you sure you are looking at the right numbers? The Broadsword should tell you two damage-ranges, the second one is only valid for the cleave-target. Both Short-Swords and Broad-Swords should be 1d4, and get the same Boni from STR and Melee Skill, so there is no reason for the behaviour you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Timmy, Power Gamer Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 I can post a picture later. I will have to grab another crude short and steel broad. I checked several times and I was simply puzzled by it. I was referring to the primary damage and not the cleave damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Damage for a Crude Shortsword is 1d4 per die. # of dice = 3 + Strength + MeleeWeaponsSkill + [ExpLevel/2] + 1 Damage for a Steel Broadsword is 1d4 per die, plus 10. # of dice = 15 + Strength + MeleeWeaponsSkill + [ExpLevel/2] + 1 As you can see, the displayed damage range for a Steel Broadsword should be exactly 22-58 higher. That's about 40 damage more, on average. If you are comparing actual damage numbers, not previewed numbers, you need to make sure you are testing exactly the same situation. In particular, whether or not you are dual wielding will affect the damage by up to 20%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Timmy, Power Gamer Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 That must be it. This was before I got the dual wielding perks. So I would have an effective -20% damage on my Steel Broadsword and that would cause the discrepancy. I will confirm this, but it sounds right. EDIT: Doesn't work on my current game, since I have exactly enough dual wielding bonuses to exactly negate the damage loss. I still think this is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 There is a really easy way to test this on your current game. TAKE OFF THE SECOND SWORD. Just test one sword at a time. Then dual-wielding penalties and bonuses are irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk ShieTar Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Actually, to still test it he would have to go and remove his 10 points in dual wielding with the editor. Edit: Just tested myself, and that is not the explanation for his confusion. A character with no SW skill will still display the same damage for a weapon, regardless if he is dual-wielding or not. Everything acting as a percentage on damage is not considered by the tool-tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 He was comparing actual damage, not the damage range in the tooltip. However, dual-wielding skill does not do anything unless you are wielding 2 swords. So, the simple thing to do is test it while only wielding 1 sword... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk ShieTar Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 That is not how I understand his Note: Originally Posted By: Timmy, Power Gamer To clarify, these are all in respect to my warrior equipping these weapons and the numbers I'm listing are the stated damage for each weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma xuerebx Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Kind of off-topic, but the weaker weapon should be kept in the off-hand right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: xuerebx Kind of off-topic, but the weaker weapon should be kept in the off-hand right? It doesn't matter. The dual-wielding penalty applies to both weapons equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma xuerebx Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Ah, thought it only applied to the off hand weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Timmy, Power Gamer Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'm changing the original post to reflect the images I'm uploading showing the weapon damage. The copper short deals way more damage than the iron broad. Same with spears to halberds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Aoslare Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Oh, wow. I see what's going on here. The halberds are working the way they are supposed to; the Iron Spear just has 3 levels of bonus more than the Bronze Halberd. Broadswords ARE messed up. Wow. Due to a mistake in the ability definitions file, shortswords get bonus points from Melee Weapons skill, but broadswords DON'T. Wow. This is definitely a bug, and it's very real. I apologize for doubting you. (EDIT: Happily, this bug does not afflict the Remix, as I eliminated the distinction between sword types.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Timmy, Power Gamer Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Oh, wow. I see what's going on here. The halberds are working the way they are supposed to; the Iron Spear just has 3 levels of bonus more than the Bronze Halberd. Broadswords ARE messed up. Wow. Due to a mistake in the ability definitions file, shortswords get bonus points from Melee Weapons skill, but broadswords DON'T. Wow. This is definitely a bug, and it's very real. I apologize for doubting you. (EDIT: Happily, this bug does not afflict the Remix, as I eliminated the distinction between sword types.) No worries. I should have posted images from the get-go. I was thinking that more people had this issue, so they would be able to answer my question from experience. I just kind of figured that Jeff thought cleave was overpowered and made broads scale worse intentionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Broadswords ARE messed up. Wow. Due to a mistake in the ability definitions file, shortswords get bonus points from Melee Weapons skill, but broadswords DON'T. Wow. This is definitely a bug, and it's very real. I apologize for doubting you. Luckily players switch over to special swords quite soon and avoid that bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Timmy, Power Gamer Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Originally Posted By: Randomizer Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Broadswords ARE messed up. Wow. Due to a mistake in the ability definitions file, shortswords get bonus points from Melee Weapons skill, but broadswords DON'T. Wow. This is definitely a bug, and it's very real. I apologize for doubting you. Luckily players switch over to special swords quite soon and avoid that bug. I do like to do non-artifact runs from time to time. I was looking at getting an early Steel Broadsword because I figured that special weapons would be as rare in this version of Avernum as in other versions. Boy was I wrong. I'm honestly very surprised that Scrioth didn't make a return. I miss shooting firebolts out of my sword. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 That certainly explains why broadswords seemed so consistently disappointing. I always assumed they just had lower base damage than all those special swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma xuerebx Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Wow, that's true! I guess I'd better use a shortsword then on one of my hands. Does Jeff usually patch his games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.