New Here[G5]

[Aoslare]

The resistance bonus is pretty huge, it's a big difference.

[Pyrrhus]

The Shapers look better, so I always go with a shaper.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Depends on the class, for me. I think the sorceress has my favorite graphic overall.

[Alorael at Large]

Sorceress and servile are the two classes that only exist in one version. I think they also got the best sprites of the new classes.

 

—Alorael, who wouldn't exactly call the servile graphic especially appealing. It's not even especially distinct. That's perfect for serviles, though, and it conveys what it is, or what everyone expects it to be, perfectly.

[Pyrrhus]

In my opinion the sorceress looks a bit like the shaper, although she doesn't have the flared robes.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Alorael

Sorceress and servile are the two classes that only exist in one version.

The servile exists in both G4 and G5.

---

And while we're on graphics (since Dikiyoba somehow missed it before), Dikiyoba would like to jump back to a previous post and point out that the lifecrafter is actually wearing pants. They're just tan-colored pants.

[Pyrrhus]

I have never played as a lifecrafter... I just realized that

[Alorael at Large]

I mean that there's only one version of the class. All the other classes are duplicated in G5: shaper/lifecrafter, guardian/warrior, agent/infiltrator.

 

—Alorael, who supposes the sorceress deserves some credit for being the least common class and, possibly, the rebels' secret weapon deployed late in the war.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Technically not a trap

Sorceress and servile are the two classes that only exist in one version.

Originally Posted By: Technically not a trap

I mean that there's only one version of the class. All the other classes are duplicated in G5: shaper/lifecrafter, guardian/warrior, agent/infiltrator.

There are 6 (by the end) rebel classes and only 3 Shaper classes. Shock Trooper has no Shaper equivalent.

[Alorael at Large]

Uh... yes. And there's the shock trooper, which I forgot due to my dislike of the class.

 

—Alorael, who still can leave the sorceress in the secret weapon role. The shock troopers aren't good enough.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Alorael

The shock troopers aren't good enough.

Lies! Sure, they not might have the best graphic, but they are clearly the best class. Why waste money or essence on spells when you can use them on hulking monstrosities? And why waste skill points on the magic skills when you could just throw them all into intelligence to make more and bigger hullking monstrosities? And to top it all off, with the shock trooper you get to lead your hulking monstrosities into battle (war cries optional but highly recommended) instead of cowering behind them and hoping your creations don't take too many steps back and squish you.

Dikiyoba.

[Pyrrhus]

What is wrong with them?

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Quote:

What is wrong with them?

Multiple stat dependency, for one thing. Playing a shaper/lifecrafter or sorceress, you can pretty much dump a lot of skill points into intelligence, which improves both your ability to cast spells and your ability to shape creations. Then you can ignore dexterity entirely, and only put a few points into strength and endurance for survivability (in theory, a true dead weight shaper could just ignore those, but I hear that isn't a great build). This leaves you with massive essence and energy pools, and many skill points to drop on shaping and magic, as well as leadership and mechanics if those pique your interest.

By contrast, a shock trooper needs a substantial investment into strength, intelligence, and endurance, or dexterity but less strength and endurance if you want to use missile weapons. This costs a lot more skill points. Also, in my opinion, magic syncs up better with creations than combat does: it's not hard to shape a wall of meat or a strong ranged attacker (two of the main strengths of combat skills; hell, tralls can play both roles admirably), but creations can't replace healing, blessing, or mental magic. And while shock troopers get healing craft for cheap, it will be noticeably weaker than for a shaper (let alone a sorceress), because they can't afford to invest heavily in spellcraft.

This gets even worse on higher difficulties, where mental magic is generally the most powerful option available for incapacitating suped-up enemies.

Anyway, the shock trooper is by no means unplayable; I've beaten the game with one on hard, and I'm sure it's doable on torment. Nevertheless, it's considered a low-tier class for a reason.

[Lilith]

I'd actually go against conventional wisdom and rate the Shock Trooper as being about on par with a servile. Even though she's clearly the weakest Shaping-based class, creations are just that good. The magic weakness does hurt her, but Geneforge 5 has enough magic-boosting artifacts to get it up to acceptable levels.

[Alorael at Large]

There's nothing the shock trooper does that the shaper doesn't do better, except things you don't really want to be doing in the first place.

 

—Alorael, who would even rather play a guardian than a shock trooper. If you're going to wade into combat, really put your points into wading into combat. You can make up for lower shaping levels much more easily.

[Randomizer]

Dikiyoba's point is that the shocktrooper is just as powerful as the other classes if you play it properly.

[Pyrrhus]

I've only ever played a shaper, warrior, guardian, agent, and sorceress.

[Trenton.]

I mainly play shaper. End of story. My main rebel right now is a Guardian though

[Lauren CW]

I disagree that the shock trouper is as strong as the other classes. Splitting between strength and intelligence is a huge deal when it comes to end game killing power. A dedicated shaper or agent have so much more capability for raw power due to magic skills. A shaper can level their creations and spend relatively few points in shaping skills to still have amazing creations, and back it up with powerful magic. The agent gets even more powerful magic and can make a couple moderately powerful creations due to high intelligence and possibly swapping a couple pieces of shaping gear. The shock trouper simply does not get to pump their magic stats high enough without gimping yourself.

 

On easier difficulties the shock trouper is significantly stronger because you can one hit things with melee and your creations.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Quote:

Dikiyoba's point is that the shocktrooper is just as powerful as the other classes if you play it properly.

I disagree, for the reasons I cited previously. Any class can be powerful if played properly, but holding the player's level of build optimizing and combat competence constant, shock troopers are weaker than many other classes. I'm not sure they're the weakest...warriors/guardians are pretty bad as well. Shaping and combat seem to be the weakest combination overall, combat and magic are in the middle, and shaping and magic are the strongest. Shaping and combat both focus on raw power (ability to deal/survive damage), and so neither really offers much that the other lacks, plus they rely on entirely different sets of attributes, which eats up more skill points to achieve what amounts to the same amount of power. Combat and magic offer different benefits (especially mental magic, since many mental spells circumvent combat abilities entirely), but they still rely on different sets of attributes. On the other hand, you don't need to pump intelligence as much to make a viable caster as a viable shaper. Shaping and magic together can virtually ignore strength/dexterity/endurance, blessing magic is ideal for armies of creations, and while mental magic isn't as good for a shaper as a solo agent/servile, but it still does something creations can't.

Again, every class (if not every build) is at least viable, but some still have clear advantages, and I don't think modifying player skill level does much to alter that.

[Lilith]

can we all agree that the warrior is the worst class

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Beer and Motor Oil

The shock trouper simply does not get to pump their magic stats high enough without gimping yourself.

That's the point. With the shock trooper, the only magic you ever use is healing and a few blessing spells. Her strategy is about overwhelming enemies (preferably through ambush) with brute force rather than incapacitating them with mental magic and then mopping them up like, well, every other class but the warrior (which sucks on account of not being the shock trooper). It's a whole different game. And it's fun!

(Although Dikiyoba will admit it's not nearly so much fun in G5 as it in is G4. Mostly because in G5 the curing spell sucks, and so casting it over and over again is the only thing the shock trooper gets to do in certain zones. Dikiyoba signed up to hit things, dang it, not cast spells.)

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Quote:

can we all agree that the warrior is the worst class

Upon reflection, they have my vote. Interesting, since serviles (similar in their primary skill set) are decent or better. I think mental magic is the main difference: you can build a brick with either class, but on higher difficulties you just can't survive a concerted assault by enemy groups even with a thousand HP battleship. The sort of creations a warrior can support won't make the difference, but strategic application of charm and mass madness just might.

I think my list would go (from best to worst): lifecrafter > sorceress > infiltrator > servile > shock trooper > warrior. I'm not 100% sold on that, though, particularly on whether sorceress or lifecrafter should have top spot.

[Trenton.]

What! I meant warrior by the way, not guardian. My warrior is able to take out the counciler members with just a Charmed Falchion, Shaped armor, and a gazer. I love the warrior. He has a pretty good graphic too, he has actual armor, unlike guardians who have clothe. Either the armor is under or something

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Quote:

What! I meant warrior by the way, not guardian. My warrior is able to take out the counciler members with just a Charmed Falchion, Shaped armor, and a gazer. I love the warrior. He has a pretty good graphic too, he has actual armor, unlike guardians who have clothe. Either the armor is under or something

So, you're saying that the warrior isn't so bad as to make the game unwinnable on [insert difficulty level here]. That's...really enlightening. Also, if you look closely at the guardian's graphic (say, during character creation), it's pretty clear that he's wearing chain mail. Which is lighter armor than the breastplate the warrior wears, but armor nonetheless.

[Pyrrhus]

I only have played a warrior in g4 and then it was hard getting past the choke point to leave the starting area and to get to Alwan's city.