Will Harkin's Landing ever forgive me?

[Flipstylez]

I killed their drake (the one they imprisoned underneath for Gladwell's quest). I'm just waiting for them to forgive me, I'm doing Solberg's quest now, in Tranquility. I keep checking back after mini quests, hoping Harkin's Landing forgave me already because I really want to finish Mother Kriss' crypt quest, shes in Harkin's Landing. I can't complete it if she's mad.. =/

 

I saved a game just before I decided to kill the drake, I'm thinking I should just go back to that if Harkin's Landing wont' forgive me.... does anyone know if Harkin's Landing will forgive me in time? Or they don't?

[Ceiling Durkheim]

They never forgive you. The 'pleaselikeme' cheat might make that happen, but I kind of doubt it. It's more for when you attack non-hostiles/steal too much, rather than doing major plot things that make towns hate you.

[Lilith]

In general, towns in this game don't forgive you once you anger them. Good thing you've got that old saved game.

[Tirien]

You could always go back right before the endgame, and kill everyone and steal everything thats not nailed down. Theres a strange satisfaction in being able to do that.

 

Yeah, your going to have to releoad if you want to finish all the quests there.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Heck, why wait? I've taken them out right after they decided they hated me. They're pretty tame compared to, say, Khora-Vyss.

 

It is a pain about the quests, though. I think it's pretty funny that killing people and taking their stuff nets you far fewer things than buying their inventory or doing odd jobs for them.

[Earth]

ppls at harkins are normal ppls while sliths at khora (upper and lower) are fighters.

 

sliths at upper khora aren't nothing compared to those which are at A6.

[Ceiling Durkheim]

And this changes what I said about the difficulty involved in massacring Harkin's landing how?

[KrataLightblade]

Originally Posted By: FnordCola

It is a pain about the quests, though. I think it's pretty funny that killing people and taking their stuff nets you far fewer things than buying their inventory or doing odd jobs for them.

Either every shopkeeper and questgiver has a personal pocket dimension to store their stuff in, or adventurers/Empire soldiers are so lazy that they take one look at a shop full of inifite health potions and go "meh, too much to carry", then move on.

I lean towards the latter. After all, it's not like everyone ELSE in the world isn't incredibly lazy. "Hey, look, the world's totally ending here, and I know you're busy and all, but would you mind terribly keeping one eye open for a tiny obscure trinket that I may or may not have lost half an underworld away, then remember to bring it to me, even if it may well be hundreds or thousands of miles out of your way, please? That'd be great... I'll give you something shiny!"

Nevermind that the money you get from selling off all the weaons and armor of all the things you killed on the way to get their trinket is generaly worth enough that it has to be measured in orders of magnitude next to whatever they're offering for the quest...

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: FnordCola

And this changes what I said about the difficulty involved in massacring Harkin's landing how?

it doesn't but there's big difference between average avernite and slith who has trained to war/kill.

[Flipstylez]

Originally Posted By: FnordCola

And this changes what I said about the difficulty involved in massacring Harkin's landing how?

Yea, those filthy worms disrespected me... I think imma juz kill em. I won't be back in that town anyway....

[Ceiling Durkheim]

That's the spirit! We'll make a good Darkside Loyalist of you yet.

 

And gameplay-wise, the more fighter type characters give respectable experience, even if the looting is kinda mediocre.

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: Flipstylez

Yea, those filthy worms disrespected me... I think imma juz kill em. I won't be back in that town anyway....

I killed them after freeing the drake, mostly becuase I was bored. Oh, and becuase drakes are awesome, cant forget that.

[Flipstylez]

Originally Posted By: FnordCola

That's the spirit! We'll make a good Darkside Loyalist of you yet.

And gameplay-wise, the more fighter type characters give respectable experience, even if the looting is kinda mediocre.

haha. i dont side with darkside or the worms. i side with getting filthy powerful and rich.... and, eventually killing Gladwell. lol

[Ceiling Durkheim]

Slightly spoiler-y, but if you're going the munchkin route, you probably are better off rolling with the Darkside. You have to give up a good item or two in the mid-game, but in the endgame you get access to a very nice shop, and by far and away the best trainer in the game (he even teaches you riposte!) and probably the cheapest as well.

 

And of course you have to pick a side eventually. Alas, there's no "kill Redmark and Dorikas and become emperor" route.

[Flipstylez]

aww darnit

[Mutant Lizard]

I'm Mirco from Italy and I' have just finished my Avernum 5. I didn't sided with Darkside Loyalists. I thought it would make the game more difficult to conduct and now I read it would be so (sorry for may English). I kept reading the various dialogs during the game and I suspected that a geas would break me during a quest, if Gladwell chooses so. I remembered the killing attempt to General Redmond when he said that a geas killed his almost-murderer before he could question him. Still I think so. How may ways to play Avernum? Mirco.

[Erebus the Black]

Well, it really depends on what do you mean by "ways".

The ending triggers (apart from the dark vs. loyal) as far as I recall are:

1. Finish helping Gladwell

2. Buy shares in trade company

3. Join the Anama and remain loyal to them

4. Finish helping the dragon(?)

 

If you help the avernite agent up until the end and let him help you fight Dorikas he changes the in game text for Dorikas's death.

 

Obviously there are Lark's quests, but they have no bearing over the game ending.

 

And there's the fate of Muck, the fate of the traitor, the fate of the enslaved drake, fate of the chitrachs, the fate of the monster caretakers (forgot what they were called) and many other little fates you can change with no bearing on the end game bit could be considered as "ways" .

 

Additionally there are about 2-4 extra challenge dungeons which also have no bearing on the end game.

[Randomizer]

The monster caretakers are the Circle of Life cult. You can guess what movie Jeff had watched when he thought of that one.

[Mutant Lizard]

"How may ways to play Avernum" was much a wonder and a question I posed to myself visiting this Forum and counting the different opinions about the same topics. I supposed the existence of alternate endings, apart from killing either Dorikas or Manfred Redmond, much regarding the final fate of the party that accomplished it. I chose to be dumb and loyal to the Empire, trying to drive events in such a way that (I thought) would have favored it in future. I think to have reached this goal so that... (really, I don't want to add a spoiler). Mirco.

[Mutant Lizard]

I'm trying to better my English (I hope it's understandable, verbs nevertheless). Apart for the fact that Avernum has many possible threads inside it (the wilderness, the Avernites/Empire, the monsters and you...), my way playing Avernum 5 was trying to figure what would be the best manner to manage Empire's interests, but remaining more in the path of Empress Prozac (the Avernites are to be respected), than in that of General Redmark (the Empire first). So, beginning with Azure Gallery, I tried to give some power to everybody but not to someone's unique advantage:

- Helping Dionicio in consolidating Avernum, but not letting him to expand beyond the Azure Gallery;

- Helping Muck against Highground and the Vahnatai killing the Giant Queen and not accepting the quest to kill the Mayor of Muck;

- Helping Vahnatai in their awakening but slowing down their expansion (see above);

- Helping monsters too, not weakening the Dragon Lands (for example, simply killing those who didn't pay for their possessions) and even respecting the Circle of Life.

I even wondered if I should have been able to find a remedy for Empress Prozac illness. Perhaps in this way the game should have ended with some "Conference for the Settlement in Avernum", with the Empire as Chairman... Mirco.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Mutant Lizard

I even wondered if I should have been able to find a remedy for Empress Prozac illness. Perhaps in this way the game should have ended with some "Conference for the Settlement in Avernum", with the Empire as Chairman... Mirco.

Click to reveal..

There's nothing you can do about Prazac. It's implied that she was probably already dead when the game began, and news of her death was being hidden from the public until it was decided who the new emperor would be.

[Mutant Lizard]

Summing up, I considered a pity that Prozac wasn't alive to see the new relations between Empire and Avernum. I decidedly prefer this fancy Empress to General Redmark. Mirco.

[Erebus the Black]

Actually I would have thought that whether or not you actually finished the pit of abominations would have some kind of bearing on the fate of the vhantai, but there's none that I have seen. The formal excuse is probably "If you didn't do it then some other band of intrepid adventurers did".

[Mutant Lizard]

Yes... a weakened people would be at merci of others invading their lands, even mages. I tried at least to figure a settlement among all the parties living in Avernum (humans, Vahnatai, Monsters). If such a settlement would have been possible, perhaps the fate of these beings, not only Monsters and Vahnatai, but also humans - remembering the acute food shortage - would have been different (note: I don't know Avernum 6). A problem lies in the fact that in the case of trying a settlement among parties you can't smash everything you encounter and pursue every quest, but nevertheless the experience system is based on points gained *defeating enemies* and *solving puzzles*. Mirco.

[Mutant Lizard]

Sorry... I posted my last message a bit in a hurry, thinking more of my gaming than of the Vahnatai. Pit of Abominations (I finished it) was there only to feed you with experience points (I talked a bit about them above) and to reward your party with some useful objects. Vahnatai fate is linked to crystals, even more than to land or food. I think that stopping miners and giving them some more time to awake their tribes is all you can do for them without getting in trouble with Avernites (obviously in the perspective of a game played as in my post above). Mirco.

[Erebus the Black]

Originally Posted By: Mutant Lizard

Vahnatai fate is linked to crystals, even more than to land or food.

 

That's what I meant, the lich is the one responsible for the creation of the rock-hounds and the one who sent them to eat the sleep chambers. I actually think that adding an option that allows you to retreat report to either redmark or dionicio and form a deal between it and the empire/avernites in order to subdue/repel the vhanatai would have been a nice idea/plot twist (sure he tried to kill you, but the short term advantages for the empire/avernites of aiding him might outweigh the long term disadvantages, plus you can always send another band of adventurers to get rid of him when he starts becoming more trouble than he's worth).

[Mutant Lizard]

Ahhh... thanks Erasmus for the rockhounds nature: I didn't realized that. I think that your plot is indeed a correct request to the game mechanics, but implies that it's coherent with the designers' vision of the game.

As Rendomizer pointed out, there are four dungeons not related to the general game plot (I'm remembering three: Khora-Viss, The Soultaker's Pit and the Pit of Abominations... ), so every side-quest related to them is ineffective on the outcome of the game.

But another thing would be a "quest by you own": something you pursue for your own shake or belief of the situation depicted in the game (like helping Dionicio instead of Vahnatai): this is always possible, but at your own risk in terms of gaming outcome.

For example. I didn't like General Redmark: for me he is a person trying to take advantage from the confrontation Prozac-Dorikas and trying to exploit at best Prozac's murder, not a much better figure than Dorikas. If I had decided to kill both Dorikas and Redmark (and strangely Redmark vanished from Blackchasm Outpost from a point onward)... should the game have had an ending for this?

Actually I think that in a game a challenging quest would be having your own vision of the situation and acting accordingly to it, but trying to successfully end the game nevertheless. Mirco.

[Earth]

some sorta personal side quest is to gain wealth for rest of life and that's gotten via that share.

[Txgangsta]

I always wanted a Vahnatai in my party...

[Mutant Lizard]

(Earth Empires) Avernum will not last for long after the quest... The Empire will land in Avernum for good and take for itself the crystal commerce, not touching anything in appearance, but actually bashing Vahnatai and everything opposing it. Before saying "there is nothing I can do", somebody might try something (but finishing the game nevertheless... as I posted above).

 

(Txgangsta) Vahnatai are difficult to find. Apart for the fact that they are strictly against the Empire and not incline to help adventurers (at least in Avernum 5), they sleep for centuries and you must be lucky to find someone awaken and willing to help you in the period of you quest. Mirco

[Erebus the Black]

Originally Posted By: Mutant Lizard

(Txgangsta) Vahnatai are difficult to find. Apart for the fact that they are strictly against the Empire and not incline to help adventurers (at least in Avernum 5), they sleep for centuries and you must be lucky to find someone awaken and willing to help you in the period of you quest. Mirco

And yet they have a permanent embassy in upper Avernum, the thing about modern RPGs is that you can find an excuse for a PC to be of any race, class and allegiance

[Tirien]

Originally Posted By: Erasmus

...the thing about modern RPGs is that you can find an excuse for a PC to be of any race, class and allegiance

Try to find a plausible excuse for having a cave cow as a PC. And have it be a mage. And a Darkside Loyalist.

[Erebus the Black]

O.K. I should have added the minimal Intelligence limitation.

 

So let's make it the BFF cow of a now Archmage (they grew together on a farm you see and at the age of 30 when he heard it was heading to the slaughterhouse he cast a permanent spell of intelligence (lets say a severe mutation kind of spell) giving it (among other things) the ability of speech, after which he decided it should come to school with him and indoctrinated as a mage). The archmage is then kidnapped by a covert avernite faction and the cow sets out to save him.

[Mutant Lizard]

Actually, the archmage was another friend of Shanker reduced to crystal status back on surface. He was then teleported in Avernum using some defective equipment (like that in Highground) from the Empire-Avernite Company and materialized in a crop of spiritual herbs something north of New Harston. A cow happened to pass from there and ate both the crop and the crystal. Then they happily jolly-raided all Avernum in search of other tender crops of magical herbs: the cow feeding herself with juicy grass and the crystal with ready-to-use spiritual power, the crystal slashing everything interfering with lighting bolts and arcane blows.

 

-- End of the first part of Exile(d) - Escape from the Cow --

 

Mirco.