Tenderfoot Thahd 10d6 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 How is Accuracy calculated for the various weapon types? How is the final melee/missile Damage calculated? What are the mechanics/formula behind Assassination? Does Luck only prevent you from dying? In any case what are the mehanics/formulas behind the effect(s) of Luck? Is there a list for the spell damage mechanics? To head off any misconceptions regarding my questions. I'm not talking about generic "Strength increases your damage" stuff but rather specific mathematical formulas. And, yes I know there are skill point potions, which, with the right amount, ultimately make decisions regarding "twinking" nonsense. However I'd like to play through the game without using those in the best statically optimal way I can. And before anyone asks or tosses one of those "but you're supposed to have fun in this game!" nonsense at me. Yes I finshed the game. Twinking is one of the most enjoyable styles of playing for me. Sorry in advance if that disclaimer is unnecessary and pre-emptively hostile. But in almost every single forum I run into hordes of those morons who think that it's impossible to have fun if you twink. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: 10d6 How is Accuracy calculated for the various weapon types? How is the final melee/missile Damage calculated? What are the mechanics/formula behind Assassination? Does Luck only prevent you from dying? In any case what are the mehanics/formulas behind the effect(s) of Luck? Is there a list for the spell damage mechanics? Also to head off any misconceptions regarding my questions. I'm not talking about generic "Strength increases your damage" stuff but rather specific mathematical formulas. And before anyone asks or tosses one of those "but you're supposed to have fun in this game!" nonsense at me. Yes I finshed the game. Twinking is one of the most enjoyable styles of playing for me. Sorry in advance if that disclaimer is unnecessary and pre-emptively hostile. But in almost every single forum I run into hordes of those morons who think that it's impossible to have fun if you twink. Thanks. Welcome to Spiderweb Software message boards, please leave your sanity at the door. [/greeting] You'll be right at home here. We have members who will exhaustively analyse every aspect of the game to figure out how it works. Thousands of tests and the like. The Exile series' mechanics were more arcane/less visible than that of the later games, so it's more difficult to come up with an exact answer than it is for, say, A4. But still, it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Some of this has been done for Blades of Exile which uses a similar game engine to Exile 3. Try Code Dissection - Munchkin Style for some analysis based upon examining the open source code for Blades of Exile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd 10d6 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Interesting read, thanks. Now I have a few questions though, what are the sweet spots for the various Strength and Int Bonuses? I assume for the Negative values of the Int Bonus the progression is 1 (-3) 2 (-2) 3 (-1) 4 (0) Since the game recommends a minimum of 4 Int for Spell Casting, so I'd assume that would mean that would be the value for 0 sweet spot. (and I assume 20 gives +5) What about the remaining +1 to +4? How is that distributed from 5-19? Also the post mentions an additional +1 from Micah's Gloves, does this mean that the actual Int Bonus is only up to +4 and that +5 is only attainable with those gloves? Meaning 20 gives +4? So the progression is 1(-3),2(-2),3(-1),4(0)...20(+4) Or can you attain +5 without the gloves? So the progression is 1(-3),2(-2),3(-1),4(0)...20(+5) so I can set one of my spellcaster's to have an Int value of x(+4) and get to +5 but just equipping the gloves, saving me some Skill Points. Inversely that would also mean the gloves are useless to a max Int spellcaster. Ditto for Magically Apt. Or is the progression 1(-3)...20(+5) but only as far as Int is concerned, so extra bonuses (gloves and Magically apt) would stack on top of the Int Bonus for a maximum of +7? Can't seem to find any values for the Str Bonus. Also the in-game description for Dex has something about how it is recommended to have at least 3 for Missile combat. But according to that page the factor that goes into accuracy is the character's skill in the weapon. There seems to be a discrepancy here. Also regarding accuracy, since there's no "dodge" skill and enemies don't seem to use the Parry Option, would it be safe to assume that Sliths and Nephs don't need to max out their Polearms and Missile skills respectively? At least absolutely no need for the Neph, seeing as there's still a chance to dodge that enemies can gain from Bless for melee attacks. Which leads me to overflowing Accuracy. Suppose my Slith has maxed Polearms and +40% accuracy bonus from stacked Bless. So 99% + 10% + 40%, will the game add all of that then subtract the enemy's chance to dodge (let's say he also has 40% dodge from Bless), giving me 109%? Or will the game cap the values off before comparing them? Giving me a flat 60%? Also how about Dual Wielding? What's the penalty applied to both swings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 The progressions for Str, Dex and Int bonuses are all identical. From memory, it's something like: 1: -3 2: -2 3: -1 4: 0 6: +1 9: +2 12: +3 16: +4 19: +5 Or maybe the +4 is at 15? This is a little fuzzy, but it should be ballpark close to what I've outlined here. The potential additional +1 from Micah's Gloves or other such bonuses is ON TOP OF the regular progression, which is what makes them so valuable. You can reach a higher bonus than is otherwise possible. Enemies do have varying ability to "dodge" that is subtracted from your accuracy, I forget what goes into that. Your accuracy is not capped at 100 beforehand. Originally Posted By: SLARTIES Ambidextrous: - Negates -25% penalties for dual-wielding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd 10d6 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Thanks. Wait so getting 20 in a stat is pointless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 That is just the progression for the main bonus from Str, Dex, and Int. IF I am remembering correctly, then reaching 20 has no impact on that bonus. 20 Str will give you an extra 15 lbs carrying capacity in E3 and BoE. Other than that I don't think there is any impact from getting to 20 in those three stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd 10d6 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Going back to Dex, the skill description say it improves Hit Rate. But according to your mechanics post it's only used in Bare Handed combat. So someone with 1 Dex and someone with 19 Dex have the same chance to hit with any weapon provided they have same amount of points in the relevant weapon proficiency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 This is probably a good time to mention that the post Randomizer linked to was a regurgitation of a big chunk of information, not a primer or a guide. If it doesn't mention something, it does not mention that thing doesn't happen or exist. So the hit chance section, for example, just gives the base hit chance that is derived from weapon skill. It does not mention any modifiers, including from Dex, monster defensive ability, spells like bless, etc. But those things all affect hit chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd 10d6 Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Ah I see, misconception there on my part. But how does Dex affect the Hit Rate? Does it add an actual number? Because +5 for 18x3 skill points is kind of... tiny (granted Dex does give other bonuses) However that situation is somewhat favorable, if the actual bonus was what was added then that would mean the actual penalty would also be tiny. Sacrificing 3% Accuracy for 9 points that could be spent elsewhere is pretty good deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 I believe it's just +/- 5% per bonus point. I could be misremembering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd 10d6 Posted July 18, 2010 Author Share Posted July 18, 2010 I see, so the first 4 points of Dex are a pretty good trade off in terms of Skill Points and Accuracy. On a different note, what kinds of attacks bypass Luck's death prevention mechanic? Also is there any way for a character to gain a good amount of XP without having to kill stuff? Does the damage dealt matter? Or just the simple act of killing an enemy? Like if say I had two characters, PC A brings the enemy down to 1 HP then PC B deals the killing blow, is that any different from PC B killing the enemy all on his own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 As far as I know, nothing bypasses Luck's death prevention; Luck is actually very good. I'm not entirely sure whether the death touch attack considers it, but that monster ability doesn't even exist before Blades of Exile as far as I know, and it's not commonly used even in Blades. It's possibly that petrification (ie basilisks) may also be affected by luck, but I'm not sure. As for experience... special encounters can also give experience (typically as a quest reward). Beyond that, I was under the impression that the experience gained by a kill is spread around the party with the person dealing the killing blow gaining more experience than the rest, but I think that was just gleaned from the documentation so it could be a little inaccurate. And the amount of experience depends solely on the monster's level, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Originally Posted By: Celtic Minstrel As far as I know, nothing bypasses Luck's death prevention; Luck is actually very good. I'm not entirely sure whether the death touch attack considers it, but that monster ability doesn't even exist before Blades of Exile as far as I know, and it's not commonly used even in Blades. It's possibly that petrification (ie basilisks) may also be affected by luck, but I'm not sure. I don't think there is any type of death that bypasses Luck. I've even seen player-killing special encounters that are countered by luck. And yes, both death touch and petrification are subject to luck. Quote: I was under the impression that the experience gained by a kill is spread around the party with the person dealing the killing blow gaining more experience than the rest, but I think that was just gleaned from the documentation so it could be a little inaccurate. Correct, with (I think) just one exception. If a monster is killed by poison, all party members get an equal amount of experience. Also, if memory serves, a poison kill gives the most experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 And unfortunately, in Exile, the experience is spread very unevenly. The character who strikes the death blow will get a lot more experience than other characters, even she is at a higher level. This tends to lead to strangely balanced parties if you have a handful of melee fighters and then people casting Bless on them... especially considering how often the games force you to fight goblins or spiders or whatever in 1 square wide corridors where you front character is likely to make all the kills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Micawber Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Exactly. Back in the days of Exile it was important to rotate your party members (especially the fighters) so that your #1 spot got shared out, to try and retain some balance. Also there were times when I needed to force myself to fight an entire battle using the priests' wound spell (sometimes that could take a while...). Happy times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Yeah. That was annoying. That was by far the single biggest reason I started playing singletons, and I never looked back. I still have a hard time running a party in any of the Exiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 The only other thing affecting the experience gained is that it is adjusted according to the race and traits you selected. I think that adjustment is done last of all, so that a poison kill would result in each character gaining different amounts of experience after the adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 Originally Posted By: CRISIS on INFINITE SLARTIES And unfortunately, in Exile, the experience is spread very unevenly. The character who strikes the death blow will get a lot more experience than other characters, even she is at a higher level. This tends to lead to strangely balanced parties if you have a handful of melee fighters and then people casting Bless on them... especially considering how often the games force you to fight goblins or spiders or whatever in 1 square wide corridors where you front character is likely to make all the kills. Yeah, that tends to get a bit annoying. To help counterbalance this, I change my party around, usually reversing their order. The ones with less experience will then deal more death blows, allowing them to level up faster and catch up to the other party members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted July 20, 2010 Share Posted July 20, 2010 That works fine if your party is identical. But if one character doesn't specialize in killing things, they just lose no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 22, 2010 Share Posted July 22, 2010 Originally Posted By: The Mystic I don't think there is any type of death that bypasses Luck. I've even seen player-killing special encounters that are countered by luck. I'm pretty sure the Kill Party node does in fact kill the party regardless of luck. Life-saving items can still save you, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd yuli Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 yes I know there are skill point potions, which, with the right amount, ultimately make decisions regarding "twinking" nonsense. However I'd like to play through the game without using those in the best statically optimal way I can. thanks dear....... www.pathtoodeep.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Look, it's a copy-and-paste-plus-bizarre-commercial-link bot. Look, it's banned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Erebus the Black Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 What? how can I see it becoming banned? Should be interesting watching all those bits running around and taking form of a ban - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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