Wich side should I choose?[G5]

[Avarakadavra]

Hello...again! I'm playing Geneforge 5 Owerthrow and im in the most hard moments:I must choose the side! And i don't know what side to choose... So i've created a poll to vote the side. I'll join to the Winners! So please vote before you leave this topic! Oh,thanks for the other posts.

Don't forget to vote!!!

[Hypnotic]

You Forgot Taygen, Litalia, and Alwan. Rawals ending is very short so save before you join him, see it, than do something different.

 

My Personal favorite is Alwan, he comes with a trainer that improves Shaping. The ending is good too, and you have access to all creations.

[Alorael at Large]

Those are not the only choices, and Rawal isn't a full-fledged side in the conflict. He's more of a cynical bystander, although you can still get an ending from helping him.

 

—Alorael, who apologizes if you're just choosing among the three sides you find palatable. It looks like you're still missing three factions, though.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I vote Alwan.

[Serene Tempest]

You'll probably find Rawal's ending disappointing. Since it seems like you have rebel sympathies, the choice between the other two factions probably hinges on whether you think the Shapers have enough redeeming qualities to be reformed or whether the world would just be better off without them.

 

I vote Astoria, as the hardcore rebels are a little too reckless and canister-happy for my tastes.

[Shaper Tristan]

i vote alwan

[Dantius]

Litalia. She's the awesomestestestest faction leader ever.

[Shaper Tristan]

litalia is the definition of a turncoat, i still vote alwan

[Alorael at Large]

Litalia is the definition of someone willing to temper ideals with realism and politics with ideals.

 

—Alorael, who votes for Astoria, but only if you don't want a more exciting ending where someone is crushed utterly.

[Spddin Ignis]

Litalia is the definition of a traitor

 

I refuse to go into this. Alwan FTW

[Avarakadavra]

Alwan or Astoria? Thanks everyone!

[Spddin Ignis]

It depends on how rebelistic your views are. If rebel, go for astoria, if shaper, go for alwan

[Acky]

Rebels. (Drakons)

[Spddin Ignis]

EDIT:unimportant

[Øther]

Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis

It depends on how rebelistic your views are. If rebel, go for astoria, if shaper, go for alwan

If you want to go with the rebels, why would you have to choose Astoria over Ghaldring? Both are rebel, and I personally chose Ghaldring over Astoria, and when I went back and got Astoria's ending, I still liked Ghaldring's better. It would only depend on if you believe that the Rebels should win completely or that the shapers should lose, but not completely lose like in Ghaldring's ending. Ans Litalia is also rebel, but you would choos that if you prefered Trakovites.

[A less presumptuous name.]

I wouldn't call the Trakovites Rebels. They are rebels. Not Rebels. The difference is this: Rebels are a specific group who want to upset the Shaper rule and spread shaping to everyone (although the Drakons don't want this as much as they say); ordinary rebels just disagree with the current regime and try to bring about a change.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Master1

I wouldn't call the Trakovites Rebels. They are rebels. Not Rebels. The difference is this: Rebels are a specific group who want to upset the Shaper rule and spread shaping to everyone (although the Drakons don't want this as much as they say); ordinary rebels just disagree with the current regime and try to bring about a change.

However, the Trakovites only came about during the Rebellion, and thus might be ushered under the diverse elemtnts that form the Rebels.

[ĐªгŦĦ Єяŋϊε]

i saved the game before joining each faction and then one by one did all five.

unfortunately i did the trakeovite one early in the game so i had to edit an item to give me +50 in all statistics in order to quickly go to the ending.

[Spddin Ignis]

Rebels are rebels. The Drakons don't really have a specific name if you think about it. There are essentially 2 sides, and 2 sides only. Loyalist/Shaper and Rebel. There are different factions of Rebels as there are different factions of Shapers. Each with their own beleifs.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

However, the Trakovites only came about during the Rebellion, and thus might be ushered under the diverse elemtnts that form the Rebels.

According to that logic, the Rebels could also be considered Trakovites. Since clearly they are two separate things, we need some new logic.

Anti-Shaper Empire ideas date back to (pre) Geneforge 1. There is no "first" for rebellious ideas; they go along with life. Likewise, there is no clear "first" for trakovitism (?). I would agree that both the Rebels and Trakovites are participating in the Rebellion, but not that both are Rebels.

Thus, there are two sides, each with many factions:
Shapers: Extremists (Taygen), Moderates (Alwan), and Liberals (Astoria).

rebels: Rebels (Greta), Drakons (duh), and Trakokvites.

[Spddin Ignis]

Actually, Astoria would be thrust into the category of Rebel because she beleives in everything the shaper's oppose.

[Acky]

Not everything. She doesn't believe in self-shaping or anything like that. Her rebel sympathy's only seem to extend to allowing rogues to exist and live on their own. Even though the game considers her a rebel, I've always seen her a sort of a middle ground, with the Rebels and the Trakovites on one side, and Alwan and Taygen on the other.

[Spddin Ignis]

Still, she does not beleive in what the shaper's main goals are. She would be classified as rebel just for wanting a possible peace.

[Acky]

By the game, she would. But as the player, we see things from a unique perspective, and thus whoever the "rebel" or "loyalist" is solely based on our interpretation.

[Alorael at Large]

She is a Shaper. She is on the Shaper Council. She does not intend to dissolve the Shapers, and she believes that letting the war continue to drag on would eventually lead to their destruction, or at the very least unacceptable destruction of everything else. From her perspective, she's saving the most that she can in a bad situation.

 

Rebel? No, although the rebels can certainly like her more than the rest of the Shapers. Shaper? Yes, although she's not going to win any popularity contests with the hard-liners.

 

—Alorael, who suspects that in Astoria's ending she is likely to spend the next fifty years or so reviled by the core of "true" Shapers and the rest of history exonerated as a luminary who saved the world. Both views are over-simplified as history often is, of course, but he puts more stock in the second. Unless everything collapses again in short order, leading to a sequel, anyway.

[Shaper Tristan]

litalia is also a shaper(not so much with the trakovite twist), yet we dont classify her as a pro-shaper.

if the shaper empire was stronger and she wasint a councilor they would have her executed for harboring traitorous thoughts. since the world is based on the shaper view point(ie. theyre called rebels not drakons/human/servile coalition)astoria can be considered a rebel.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Tristan

litalia is also a shaper

Litalia was a Shaper. She renounced her Shaper status when she joined Ghaldring and the other rebels.

Dikiyoba.

[Hypnotic]

Litalia dosn't belong to the Shapers anymore although Astoria does, which is why Astoria is indeed a Shaper and litalia isn't.

 

IF she wasn't a councillor. She is a councillor because she is a good leader (She says so). She has come to the conclusion the Indedpedant serviles are acceptable. She does not bbelive in self shaping or anyone Shaping but Shapers. She is certainly more of a Shaper than a rebel.

[Spddin Ignis]

Well, Technically, she was never a Full shaper, therefore, not a Shaper at all.

[Mea Tulpa]

That is not true. The PC in the first three Geneforge games is not yet a Full Shaper, and is definitely and without a doubt considered by everyone in the games to be essentially a Shaper.

[Dantius]

Litalia is probably the most powerful, and awesomest, human shaper/lifecrafter in existence. Considering that not only does she

 

a.) actually get off her ass and do things, much to the envy of every other faction leader in the entire series, who just sit in their town and wait to get killed by the PC, but

 

b.)She is able to single-handedly reduce the Ashen Isles to a state of chaos, and this is without help from any Drakons. She is able to outsmart and outmaneuver all the powerful shapers on the entire island, including:

 

1. Tactically outmatching Rahul, a brilliant Guardian,

 

2. Ruthlessly undermining Agatha, a powerful shaper in her own right, by playing off her ego and hunger for power,

 

3. Effectively immobilize Diwanya by incensing the population against him,

 

4. Single-handedly slaughtering an entire school of Shapers.

 

c.)She not only goes up against the Shapers, but also the Drakons. Remember how angry she was at the Drakons in G4 for not sharing their plans? She politically outmaneuvered GHALDRING, by playing him off Sallassar, until she got exactly what she wanted. That's impressive.

 

d.) She kept up a Reighn of Terror that wouold have turned Robespierre red with envy, uniting the creations/human side of the Rebellion by incensing the against the Trakovites. This enables her to weld a cohesive enough faction together that she could equal or even surpass the Drakons in political or military power.

 

e.) She holds the distinction of being one of only three people in the entire Geneforge universe, along with Gottech and Trajkov, to not go insane from prolonged, intense canister exposure. She remains the ONLY one to have actually broken the habit. That's impressive.

 

f.) She has the courage to reconsider her political beliefs, and adapt them to the rapidly changing political and social views, and actually changes sides, valuing personal loyalty over loyalty to what she views as a corrupt and morally bankrupt cause.

 

g.) She has the courage to walk into the Shaper Citadel, the very heart of power of the most powerful faction in the world, while being the #2 on their Most Wanted Kill On Site list. That's like Alwan taking a stroll (not that he can) through Gazaki Uss to have tea with Greta and chat a bit, or Pinner going to see her elderly aunt in Zhass-Uss.

 

h.) Oh, and did I mention that she FOUNDED the rebellion, along with Ghaldring? Were it not for her, none of this would have even happened.

 

Litalia is a far superior character to any of your choices.

[Hypnotic]

You will hear no objections from me. I only wish we saw more of her. T

 

he school of Shapers was only three Shaper tachers and Master hodge was on her side. Not sure what happened to the rest of the apprenatces. Also I think the game mentions some giant lizard creatures that I would assume ment Drakons. Still, that feat was the beggining of the rebbelion.

[Acky]

Quote:

c.)She not only goes up against the Shapers, but also the Drakons. Remember how angry she was at the Drakons in G4 for not sharing their plans? She politically outmaneuvered GHALDRING, by playing him off Sallassar, until she got exactly what she wanted. That's impressive.

No, actually, Litalia really had no hand in the incident with Salasar and Ghaldring. In fact, I doubt she had any clue as to what was really going on. All the rest of those are credible though.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Master Ackrovan

Quote:

c.)She not only goes up against the Shapers, but also the Drakons. Remember how angry she was at the Drakons in G4 for not sharing their plans? She politically outmaneuvered GHALDRING, by playing him off Sallassar, until she got exactly what she wanted. That's impressive.

No, actually, Litalia really had no hand in the incident with Salasar and Ghaldring. In fact, I doubt she had any clue as to what was really going on. All the rest of those are credible though.

I could have sworn that she made some kind of oblique reference to "drakon politics" that implied that she had a hand in the whole thing. I actually find this believable.

[Acky]

I would too, except she was as much of a pawn during the incident as the player was.

 

As I understand it, Salasar has started to cause ruckus within Ghaldrings inner circle, and it had finally gotten to the point where he was hampering the advancement of the Unbound, as well as the movement against the Shapers. Ghaldring, however, couldn't kill him directly. Otherwise, all the other Drakons would think he just rules on fear, and it wouldn't matter how many Shapers he killed; they'd take him down anyway. So, Ghaldring needed to get rid of Salasar without directly being involved.

 

It was then that he realized that no one from his side of the rebellion could do it without it tracing back to him. So, when Salasar started to get acted up, he would allow some of his frustrations to be vented towards the human part of the rebellion through his agent Drakons. He allowed him to take control of the gates with his Drakons, thus allowing direct contact with the Humans to take place. The Drakons would then obviously not allow them to enter Quess-Uss. Naturally, this made the humans upset that the Salasars Drakons were stopping the transfer of communication between the two sides. Inevitably, they became upset enough to the point where Litalia had no choice but to send a Lifecrafter directly to Ghaldring and demand to be let in on what was happening.

 

So Litalia took the bait Ghaldring needed, and sent Greta over after she had come up from the fens. Unfortunately for Ghaldring, Greta was too high-key to challenge Salasar directly, and thus allowed herself to be kept captive. This is when the PC came along. He/she would be just powerful enough to possibly defeat Salasar, but not high ranking enough were they would be immune to a fight with him.

 

So, while Litalia did in fact play a small role in this conspiracy, she didn't do anything other then fall into Ghaldrings palm.

[Dantius]

I replayed the section. Litalia manages to manipulate the Drakon Ambassador to get you into Quessa Uss, but she's too far away to manipulate events for you there. I stand by my assertion that she would have Ghaldring like a puppet on a string were she present.

[Acky]

I doubt that. I really don't see this great manipulation mindset you claim she has. She's an excellent warrior, and a suburb shaper, true. She's a great leader as well. But manipulating Ghaldring? I don't see it. She's far to blunt.

 

And how did she "manipulate" the Drakon Ambassador? As far as I can see, she just sends you to ask for permission to go there. She doesn't trick him or anything. Just asks.

[Shaper Tristan]

a shaper refers to either a member of the sect of The Shapers, or a likely enductee into said sect.

a lifecrafter refers to a rebel touched by the geneforge and canisters giveing them the power to shape.

 

by that litalia is a shaper, although she differs from the shapers on many ideals she learned to shape from training just like any other shaper.saying litalia is not a shaper is the same as saying khyryk isint either.

[Hypnotic]

Originally Posted By: Shaper Tristan

by that litalia is a shaper, although she differs from the shapers on many ideals she learned to shape from training just like any other shaper.saying litalia is not a shaper is the same as saying khyryk isint either.

She was a Shaper. She is a Rebel.

[Shaper Tristan]

maybe in ideals, and not really that anymore shes a trakovite,but she wears shaper robes,and in the end game shes chooses to side with the shapers all be it with hours of persuasion.

[Hypnotic]

She wears Shaper robes because of the geneforge series limited Graphics. By that logic, Greta is in fact a Shaper and her assistant Jared in Northforge is also a Shaper.

 

 

Also she

Click to reveal..

dosn't side with the Shapers. She says she will help them beat the Drakons. Under the condition that the Shapers don't research any new creations. The she does a rebel thing and helps the rebels bring about a split terrestia with Terrestia in the West and Sucia in the east. Hardly traits of a Shaper.

[Spddin Ignis]

Again, greta, like litalia, never completed their schooling.

[Avarakadavra]

Wow...Great discussion... And how the poll shows,Astoria is in the top! But you still can vote...don't miss the chance!!! And who knows others sides to join...Just leave an reply!

Oh,guys,please no more fights...BUT HOWEVER,WAS AWESOME!!!

Keep going!!!

[Spddin Ignis]

Litalia didn;t single handedly destroy the school. Hoge had his hand in it.

[Acky]

Hoge actually didn't participate on either side, and Litalia had help from her creations.

[Spddin Ignis]

Hoge took out the guards and such and he did participate. He didn't directly participate, but his shaped buddies did (creations).

[Acky]

Proof? I have dialog saying he didn't.

[Hypnotic]

Hodge didn't participate but Drakons did.

[Acky]

......There were no Drakons during the attack on the school.

[Hypnotic]

It said giant Lizard creatures. They guy had already said Fyoras, and Drayks are always descibed as reptiles. Unless it said retptile and not Lizard.