Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 What is your view on canisters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Dakkanor Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 that depends on the context i.e the use and implementation in game or the philosophical and moral points of their use if they existed IRL ingame it all depends on playstyle and preference philosophically things are different if its a tossup between learning a skill slowly while keeping rationality VS instantly learning a skill and then going mad then there a canister is definitely bad BUT if the canister was made to change a crippling bodily defect or save a life then that could be another story.. if they can be used to cure paralysis with one shot or regrow a limb to return a man to the life he loves or strengthen a persons weak heart so that a lovely girl could live her life then isn't that chance worth a little madness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Tarson Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 From a story prospective they are horrible and shouldnt be used. The effects of them such as insanity and drakons. Playing a game it depends on your faction. And no its not dakkanor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 One canister != madness. One hundred = insane. Pick a number, any number between those two. Then arbitrarily impose that as the maximum number of canisters to be used. Quite simple, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 From a philisophical perspective, canister use is trading power for sanity. I unlike acky, would prefer sanity to power but thats just me. The only good thing about canisters is the attractive green glow they give you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 To some extent, you can control yourself if you use canisters. So I believe canisters are a valuble tool that can be used for great good, as long as they are properly distributed and restricted from the general public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Dakkanor Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 and there are some who would argue the opposite tarson but personally i believe that simply that fact of instant power causes no small part of the madness finally i do actually agree that to have someone i love twisted and warped is not something i could choose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 No canisters. Things that Shape are arrogant enough. Outsiders do not need any more stress delt to them by their overlords. Shapers with canisters would be a nightmere. That said I would like to say that I could use canisters without turning bad due to my personality but I doubt it. I have nothing against the changes in appearance, Glowing eyes would be awsome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Shaper Tristan Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 canisters used in moderation are fine. or as a more extreme measure, remember in GF5 when you talk to litalia she has not used canisters in awhile and she says that she is becomeing more like her old self. so the options would be very few canisters, or alot and getting locked in one of those padded rooms for a couple of years. i would choose the room and gain alot of power, i mean the symptoms would be like withdraw from heroin, but the power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 Acky, but your being hypocritical to your previously stated views. According to you, no power should be hoarded, so what makes canisters any different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 I think that canisters are a good idea if you know how to use 'em. Every once in a while? Sure, why not. Enough to give your skin a "sexy green glow?" I think not. Canisters=power, and power=good. Good=ramen. So, in conclusion, canisters = ramen = good. ~Artemis and ramen. I eat it without the flavor packets, and it tastes pretty decent. But if canisters are anything like ramen, you'd better get used to seeing my aura exploding around you. EDIT: IGNIS, YOU DOOF, USE PROPER PUNCTUATION.Nothing in this world irks me more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Potato Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Six canisters so you don't get any bad effects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Only to get Eyebeasts, the walking, talking, Aura of Flame casters (endorsed by TM!). Originally Posted By: TM Gazers are walking Aura of Flames casters. Awesomeness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Huh, when did TM say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=57694#Post57694 He said gazers, but since Gazers don't cast Aura of Flames, he probably got the two confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Erm,I wonder if one can make canisters to blend the traits of different creations. ~Artemis and crossbreeds. They work with dogs, but i'm not so sure about creations. I'm not sure if I want to see a beast with drakon legs and an artila head. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Quote: Acky, but your being hypocritical to your previously stated views. According to you, no power should be hoarded, so what makes canisters any different. There's a difference between regulated and hoarded. Regulated as in only the right people can get access to them, like firearms. If they're hoarded, only the goverment has access to them (Shaping, for instance) Also, why are you probing me into a debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 The shapers are regulating. They choose people who show enough control. The shapers aren't born the government, they are chosen based on ability. Anyone can get a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Quote: Also, why are you probing me into a debate? Because he likes debates. Beleive me, I know. ~Artemis and debates. They tend to get me in trouble, so I've been careful to avoid them. But they're fun if you're arguing with the right people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Quote: The shapers are regulating. They choose people who show enough control. The shapers aren't born the government, they are chosen based on ability. Anyone can get a gun. Actually, no, the Shapers aren't letting the general public have access to Shaping/Firearms. And no, not everyone can get access to a gun. The way it should be done is regulate it like our guns, as in take a backround check on people, don't let convicted criminals use them, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 but you have to be a convicted criminal. You have to commit the crime before they no longer allow you to have a gun. Therefore by the time they make their move, its too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 You don't get to vote, either. And you can still have a gun, so long as no one knows about it, with canisters it would be pretty hard to hide an addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Quote: with canisters it would be pretty hard to hide an addiction. . Not necessarily. What if your parents were canister junkies and you inherited their canister traits? Then, I guess, your skin would NATURALLY have that sexy green glow. ~Artemis and green auras. I think that they're the best cosmetic ever. Count me in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 We don't know whether or not canister use is genetic- most junkies get killed by the PC before they have children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Acky Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Interesting thought: If canisters were to alter your genes, when you reproduce, your genes would be passed down to your children. That kid would have the best show and tell ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Techincally it could be passed down. Does that mean the children can naturally use whatever abilitys where shaped into their parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Dakkanor Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 of course if that glow never went away(never seen anything that states whether or not glow is permanant) then if you ONCE were a junkie and could hide your cans very well you might be able to continue to feed your addiction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 In order for canister-altered genes to be passed on, the canister must alter all of you genes, including those in your gametogenic cells. While it's possible, I doubt that it's likely. Also, how can you cast a firebolt by either changing your genes or studying? The two seem far from similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 your genetic code is the same for every cell in your body do yeah it would. Show and tell: Teacher: Ok Acky Jr. its your turn Acky Jr: Look what i can do!! *casts aura of flames* Teacher; Holy Sh *is incinerated* Acky jr.: oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis your genetic code is the same for every cell in your body do yeah it would. This is true when you're born, but it's not true afterwards. In real life, things that can modify your DNA won't modify every cell at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Spddin Ignis Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 good point...cancer would be an example. Just thought of that. But canisters seem to be all around im modyfying every cell in your body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 There is no (to the extent of my knowledge) record of how and where the canisters modify your genes. It seems modifying your reproductive organs would be a waste of energy, seeing as how they aren't about to go casting aura of flames and the Shapers don't seem too concerned with kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Drakon Sssharxx Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I love you all! You just gave me an interesting encounter in my next chapter! Thanx. p.s. As I understand it, it would seem most likely that the your genetic codeing would be passed on to your children (somewhat randomly due to nigh infinate combinations of genes) as the genes in all your body are all the same but cells developments acording to the instructions of the genes are affected by the environment. From what I can tell cells with genes that are not within a certain degree of similarity have a large chance of being rejected by the body. As far as skills comeing from genes and not knowlege I can only see small examples from this in animal instincts that even tiger cubs have without expirienceing a similar encounter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Wow. Did I just do something right? I had no idea that I was capable of saying something smart. anyhoo, I think that it would depend on if the canister genes were dominant or recessive. Which we would have no way of knowing. ~Artemis and genetics. That's why I love Geneforge. Plus, I totally Aced that test. I find genetics pretty interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 As do I, which is why I've spent hours pondering over possible scenarios for how and why canisters work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I've got an idea: There are little magical gene-altering probes the size of a strain of bacteria swimming around in the canisters. Any skin contact, and they inbed themselves into their host, like a parasite. And they alter your genes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Drakon Sssharxx Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Or for some spectacular unknown reason... It's magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yes. That is the conclusion I have come to as well. Part of fiction is suspending reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I couldn't have put it better myself. If it doesn't exist in real life, I think that it's safe to say that it's magic. ~Artemis and magic. I really wish that it were real. Then, this truly would be a perfect world. I can imagine eating some magical ramen noodles and turning into a sorceress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I too was pondering Dominate or ressesive. I am going to go ahead and say Dominant as the Phenotype expressed is always the one that the cansiters alter. Unless is modifys both genes to Ressesive. Mabey its a Co-Dominate gene? Would the children glow too? Or would it simply be a by product of canister using and not be passed on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: Spddin Ignis your genetic code is the same for every cell in your body do yeah it would. This is true when you're born, but it's not true afterwards. It's not even always true when you're born. Chimerism, for example. Originally Posted By: Drakon Sssharxx p.s. As I understand it, it would seem most likely that the your genetic codeing would be passed on to your children (somewhat randomly due to nigh infinate combinations of genes) as the genes in all your body are all the same but cells developments acording to the instructions of the genes are affected by the environment. From what I can tell cells with genes that are not within a certain degree of similarity have a large chance of being rejected by the body. It's a little more complicated, of course. Your genes are on chromosomes, and your chromosomes come in pairs (except for X and Y, which only sort of pair in males given the fact that X is much larger than Y). The pairs contain the same genes, so you have all your genes in pairs too (hence the interactions of dominance, recessiveness, and so on). Sexual reproduction requires the formation of a gamete, which carries one of the two genes your cells (or, more specifically, the gametocytes that form gametes) for every single gene. Which of the two possible genes is chosen at random (sort of; mostly), and then the gamete fuses with another gamete and makes a new organism with paired genes. Cells don't have to be genetically similar to avoid rejection, really. They just need to be similar in the ways that are recognized by your immune system so that they are perceived as self and not foreign. That's why blood transfusion works and blood type matters. It's also why you need a matching organ donor for transplantation. Quote: As far as skills comeing from genes and not knowlege I can only see small examples from this in animal instincts that even tiger cubs have without expirienceing a similar encounter. Maybe, but instincts are almost certainly neurological rather than genetic. The genes program the development of the neurons, but how that works in a mature brain is anyone's guess. —Alorael, who really means that it's magic. Jeff did not decide to make a game that is a molecular genetics course. He made a game in which gene-altering glowing canisters give you the ability to shoot fire and then make you go crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall A less presumptuous name. Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I guess that if we wanted to make canisters more realistic, we could say that actually alter the neurological pathways in your brain (and spinal cord), giving you some reflexive reaction which manipulates the energy/essence inside of you. Learning does similar things with neurological pathways, only much slower (and more complex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Hypnotic Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I would assume thats what the "Quick Action +1" Canisters do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Drakon Sssharxx Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 If magic was real you'd still have scientists try and explain it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 And it would be explainable too, presumably. I can think of very few fantasy worlds where magic explicitly does not follow any laws of magic, and cannot be explained. The fact that that world's laws of magic are not identical to our world's laws of physics is not really a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Student of Trinity Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Too quote Douglas Adams, There is another theory which states that this has already happened. In other words, who says real physics isn't magic? It turns out to be mainly a discipline of enchantment as opposed to evocation, but our enchanted items can do some pretty amazing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan Drakon Sssharxx Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 To quote Arthur C Clarke: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Artemis~ Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Quote: Too quote Douglas Adams, There is another theory which states that this has already happened. In other words, who says real physics isn't magic? Woa, yeah! What if all magic were just advanced physics that we haven't figured out yet? Maybe magic is actually the result split atom that created a parallel universe, inside of this universe! ~Artemis and parallel universes. I could rant about the possibilities forever. My theories are really cool. If you want to know more about my crappy 6th-dimention-parallel-universe theories, feel free to let me know. I need to get some rant time in anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Go for it. Hijack the topic, we have enough canister debates and not enough rants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug Potato Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Of course magic is advanced physics. Have you not read Harry Potter? What do you think Arithmancy is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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