Seasoned Roamer Orifushi Mafuyu Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Spoiler warning blah blah, etc. This place was mildly amusing. Pursuant to the Adventurers' Code (specifically, the section which says thou shalt slayeth anything that hath a hp bar) I took a swing at Jeff. Oops, surprisingly fragile Reloading, I grabbed something marked 'NY' to provoke hostilities. Then I soul copied Jeff (lol) and ran out the portal back to Rentar's Keep. Unfortunately summoning Jeff does nothing to distract Rentar. I think I'll omit how summoning Jeff does nothing to dissuade the other vahnatai either, and they seem to take a sadistic pleasure in skewering him with their wavy blades or poking holes in him with their throwing discs. Then I noticed that my simulacra were regular townspeople (albeit looking like Jeff). Agent Smith scene flashbacks notwithstanding, I suppose that - like Chuck Norris - Jeff's essence is too awesome to be contained in a mere soul crystal. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Knight Who Said Ni Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Huh? I have played it through and done most side quests but never saw a Jeff NPC or an Adventurer code. This is spoiler heavy but tell me where this all is? Ni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Ishad Nha Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 IIRC, I think you have to place a pair of pants on a rune in the SW part of Rentar's Fortress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Yes, there's a hidden dungeon followed by a hidden town in E/A3, found by placing an ordinary pair of pants on a rune in Rentar's fortress at the end of the game. Also, the "Adventurer's Code" isn't something in the games. It's just a player's observation that once you have nothing left to do in a town in a Spidweb game, you may as well kill everyone because it usually doesn't have any effect in-game except giving you experience and making you richer. I don't do that, personally, but a lot of people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Orifushi Mafuyu Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Naa, I don't raze the towns. I'm from the goody-goody two shoes school of adventuring I just finished A3 btw. Click to reveal.. It was sad, how Erika finally died. Having played E1-E3 and A1-A3, I always felt she was a benevolent figure, albeit driven by anger. As I stormed Rentar's Keep I had Lufia 2's "The Savior of those on Earth" playing, but for the final battle I switched to this rendition of Lufia 2's "Fortress of Doom" ( ). It felt appropriate. Rentar's projection in Empress Prazac's throne room was pretty ballsy. I'd have thought the Empire mages would be able to track her down if she did that though, given that they manage to remote-teleport our party out of a deathtrap. I really, really want Rentar dead. Does she ever get her just desserts? (I never played A4-A5, but I don't mind spoilers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 On Rentar's fate Click to reveal.. Avernum 4 has multiple endings so you get to choose Rentar's fate from killing her to letting her go back to the Vahnatai or plague the Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Orifushi Mafuyu Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 So, multiple endings eh. How are they explained in A5 then? Is she simply taken out of the picture, no longer mentioned? Edit: Click to reveal.. Then again, if we don't take Erika's amulets in A3, we don't see her death at Rentar's hands either, and from what I've read on the forums Erika simply isn't mentioned anymore in A4-A5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Avernum 5 is played as Empire soldiers with only slight mention of Rentar's Vahnatai group, Mostly to avoid that group of Vahnatai getting slaughtered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Dikiyoba thought there was a line in A5 that indicated that Rentar was dead, but Dikiyoba could be totally misremembering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon The Almighty Doer of Stuff Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I haven't played A5, so I don't know whether there's a line about Rentar's fate, but I know that Click to reveal.. Jeff himself said, after A4, something along the lines of "Rentar is DEAD. DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD, DEAD." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Basically, the assumption is that you weren't a complete idiot who let Rentar go free, so she's either dead or sealed away forever by the Vahnatai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Rentar is gone. What particular form of gone she is doesn't really matter, does it? —Alorael, who wonders if it is possible to revive a dead crystal soul and, if so, what form it takes. Or do you just get a vahnavoi or one of the insubstantial undead types from it? Can you even have an undead, rotting rock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I also seem to remember a line in A5 that specifies she is dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Yep, Clodeca in Thalants says it. Quote: question = "Rentar-Ihrno? You mean that Rentar-Ihrno?"; text1 = "_The one who razed your lands? The one who went mad, transformed herself into a crystal soul, and attempted to destroy Avernum? Yes, that one._"; text2 = "_She is dead now. At last, she has peace._"; Dikiyoba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 From what I remember reading, Click to reveal.. There are multiple endings to A4 (as was said), but the official/cannon one appears to be that the Famed Adventurers from A4 didn't take the merciful approach with Rentar when they meet up with her in NW Avernum. Also, in A5 Lark talks a little bit about Erika, telling you that she was killed years ago (during A3 obviously) and that Lark is using some of Erika's research to "fuel" the stuff she makes for you when you complete her quests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Orifushi Mafuyu Posted September 20, 2009 Author Share Posted September 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Truth as a Matter of Persistence Rentar is gone. What particular form of gone she is doesn't really matter, does it? It's a matter of correctness. Thanks for the quote though Dikiyoba, that piece of dialogue really clears it up. Click to reveal.. I didn't know vahnatai could transform themselves into a Crystal Soul - or perhaps the story meant that other vahnatai helped her do so. I did try to take a look at Avernum 4, but god help me, I can't stand the interface, even though the basics are the same as A1-A3. Still, consider that the life restoration spell at level 3 can essentially bring back even dusted characters. Now why didn't that work for Erika? We RPG veterans know dying cures you of all other status ailments (classic example: poison), so the nasty curses responsible for killing her would've gone away after they served their purpose. After that it's just a simple matter of breaking out a dustpan and then casting that spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Except that there's actually evidence within Avernum games of curses that outlast death even on PCs -- dread curses. Erika's curse was even bigger business than one of those, clearly. The whole matter of death and revival is an irritating point of obvious-fakeness in nearly every CRPG these days. Characters who die in battle can be revived no matter what killed them and no matter how long you drag around their lifeless corpse before restoring them. But characters who die of comparable ailments in the course of the storyline are apparently impossible to save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Orifushi Mafuyu Posted September 20, 2009 Author Share Posted September 20, 2009 Ah, didn't realize that about Dread Curses, namely because on the rare occasions I contracted it, I either reloaded or managed to get cured without dying along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Orifushi Mafuyu Ah, didn't realize that about Dread Curses, namely because on the rare occasions I contracted it, I either reloaded or managed to get cured without dying along the way. I thought dread curses merely lowered your stats. Or am I thinking of something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 That's basically what they do, yes. —Alorael, who agrees with reloading purely for convenience. There's only one person who can cure them, and getting to that one person can be a pain. Having to get to that one person in A3 can be impossible if you don't play nice with the Anama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Orifushi Mafuyu Still, consider that the life restoration spell at level 3 can essentially bring back even dusted characters. Now why didn't that work for Erika? When Erika was sent to the underworld, some rival Empire mages cursed her so that sunlight would kill her instantly if it touched her. It's possible that the curse was so strong that it would counter any attempt to restore or revive her. Then again, think about it: Do you really want a vengeful Erika to be resurrected, especially if the act removes her sunlight curse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Quote: The whole matter of death and revival is an irritating point of obvious-fakeness in nearly every CRPG these days. Heh, this reminds me something I read in a review of an old CRPG (I'm paraphrasing here): Yes, my friends, this cut-scene shows us a true horror, the ONLY thing that can kill someone in an RPG... ...THE PLOT! Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Mea Tulpa Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 And if you want more evidence -- I forgot about this -- one of the prisoners in the Tower of Elderan in X2 discusses the curse/ward/tattoo things Elderan places on them, which are apparently impossible or almost impossible to remove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer Orifushi Mafuyu Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: The Mystic Then again, think about it: Do you really want a vengeful Erika to be resurrected, especially if the act removes her sunlight curse? She may be driven by anger but there's no evidence of her willing to involve innocents in her thirst for revenge. She might slay a bunch of high ranking Empire wizards who were on Garzahd's side, but that's about it. I don't see her flooding the Empire with monster plagues like Rentar and the vahnatai did. Click to reveal.. Especially since she's seen the backlash: towards the end of A3 it's basically open season on the vahnatai. Erika may want specific people dead but I doubt genocide and another war are on the menu. It'll just cause more trouble for her, and given her superior attitude it's more plausible she just wants revenge on those immediately responsible for her plight - anything more will be seen as unnecessary bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Marak Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 And unless she's lying through her teeth (and very convincingly), remember that she soundly denounces the Plagues as a Way of Revenge when you broach the subject with her in her tower early on in A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Toby-Linn Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Yeah, because the plagues hurt both Avernum and the Empire by making the surface unlivable. The Avernites wouldn't be able to move back up. I think Erika's style of revenge is to sweep into her victim's house and kill them all with a flashy spell. Plus she wouldn't be shy about it. If the plagues were her work she would have bragged about it to your characters because she would've been proud of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast The Mystic Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 And due to the fact that she's a very powerful spellcaster (I think one game called her an arch-incantatrix or something), I wouldn't want to be caught on the receiving end of whatever spell she threw in my direction. That was more or less the point I was trying to make at the end of my previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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