Results for simulation of curse effect[G5]

[Untamed Banana Slug]

I used the Captain's shiv (Damage: 4-16, damage multiplier = 2.5) to wail on my battle alpha. The results are as follows.

 

Torment, not cursed:

 

Average damage = 35.1

 

Torment, cursed:

 

Average damage = 19.9

 

Difference = 15.2

 

Multiplier of curse on Torment = Approx. 6

-----------------

 

Normal, not cursed:

 

Average damage = 17.2

 

Normal, cursed:

 

Average damage = 9.8

 

Difference = 7.4

 

Multiplier of curse = Approx 3.

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From this, we can conclude two things:

 

1. The documentation is wrong (again). Curse reduces attack strength by *three*, not four. This isn't just supported by damage output. When I was cursed, my accuracy decreased by 15%, not 20%. 15%/5% = 3.

 

2. Curse is doubly effective on Torment, which implies that damage that your PC and creations receive is doubled. So for every die of damage (or level of attack strength) you receive, double that on Torment.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

As an added bonus, I tested war blessing. It does increase attack strength by four, which is consistent with what is stated in the documentation.

[ex post slarto]

Just the fact that average damage coming from *you* was doubled on Torment confirms your hypothesis quite neatly, since obviously the PC's stats don't increase.

 

However, cursing may actually be stronger than three levels. Battle alphas have 40% armor, thus they should be absorbing an average of 40% of the damage dealt. We would not expect an average difference (between cursed and not-cursed) to be so close to 7.5, we'd expect it to be close to 60% of 7.5.

 

This is what I was alluding to with my suggestion to watch out for interference from armor and other such variables. Try with a fyora -- they don't have any armor.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

Quote:

However, cursing may actually be stronger than three levels. Battle alphas have 40% armor, thus they should be absorbing an average of 40% of the damage dealt.

You mean the physical damage they resist? I incorporated that into the damage dealt.

Edit: You're also forgetting that curse lowered to hit by 15%, whereas war blessing raised it by 20%. Which further supports the interpretation that curse lowers attack strength by 3, whereas war blessing increases it by 4. War blessing also increased attack output by 4 levels.

[ex post slarto]

Aha, it must be three after all.

 

Does the documentation specifically say the Ivory Skull causes 4 levels of curse? If it says that about the spell or some other item, it's entirely possible each one bestows a different number of levels of curse.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

I was using a vlish bolt to curse my character.

 

Edit: Perhaps this is an argument for keeping vlish until the end game? 30 essence for an unlimited supply of curse spells (with extra damage!) is a bargain.

[Student of Trinity]

What effect does Weakness have?

[Untamed Banana Slug]

25% extra damage. Weakness is gangsta!

[Acky]

Yeah, I've always found Weakness to be a very useful tool (Wrack) against enemies. Bosses in particular, since its wastful to try to cast it on every enemy there is, and boss fights tend to go on for a bit, so its worth the essence.

 

The Last Archon

[Spddin Ignis]

I also like essence blade. When you combine that with wrack and war blessing...sucks for the enemy.

[ex post slarto]

Vlish aren't bad, but the problem is that they do so little damage compared to later creations that really all they are doing for you is casting wrack. Unless it was going to take you a large number of hits to kill something in the first place, you're better off with another trall or whatever; the handful of enemies that do take 20 hits to kill you can manually wrack.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Checkmatte

Vlish aren't bad, but the problem is that they do so little damage compared to later creations that really all they are doing for you is casting wrack. Unless it was going to take you a large number of hits to kill something in the first place, you're better off with another trall or whatever; the handful of enemies that do take 20 hits to kill you can manually wrack.

Except that Vlish attacks aren't equivalent to Wrack: they curse, not weaken. You don't have a spell that curses enemies.

[ex post slarto]

I hover corrected. I'm still not sure they're worth the slot over a wingbolt or trall, damage-wise, but they are certainly cheaper in terms of essence.

[Øther]

Would it hurt to much to have both? You could keep the vlish with you (or absorb it and recreate it after some battles), and also have a war trall and/or a wingbolt? The vlish doesn't cost to much, and some spells cost more, so you could think of it as a continuous spell; it uses a bit of essence, and it attacks and also curses. With it costing so low, you should also be able to afford a war trall/wingbolt.

[Alorael at Large]

The problem isn't the essence. Eventually, it's the fact that the slot would be more profitably filled with a harder-hitting creation.

 

—Alorael, who thinks vlish would be fine for the beginning useful in the middle. Once you have the essence to use slots for something that isn't a vlish, though, that non-vlish starts looking good. Non-lifecrafters may not have that problem depending on builds.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

You can get Vlish pretty early though, which allows you to level them up significantly. And I never have enough essence to fill up all of my slots with hard hitting creations.

[Dikiyoba]

Dikiyoba found Dikiyoba's vlish difficult to keep alive once Dikiyoba got out of the Storm Plains, so if you aren't running disposable creations, that's another factor.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

Did you manage to keep your vlish until the end of the game? If so, did they remain useful, or were they just dead weight?

[Lilith]

And if you are running disposable creations, a newly-created Vlish in the middle of the game is going to have trouble even hitting enemies, let alone staying alive.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

To be honest, it seems like a tremendous waste to reabsorb creations you have invested XP in leveling up.

[Øther]

Or you can pump your disposable creation's stats up a whole ton.

[Spddin Ignis]

i can create powerful creations to fill up all my slots. I shaped a vlish to escape the challenge area alive and it actually hit the drakon. Of course the drakons blasted it to bits, but i lived.

[ex post slarto]

G5 is not the best game for disposable creations, it's true (see: G1 and to a lesser degree, G4). But there are some great short term options in G5, particularly the improved Shock Trall. SoT was raving about them.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

To be honest, it seems like a tremendous waste to reabsorb creations you have invested XP in leveling up.

Not if the new creation will live longer and do better damage. Some early creations are a pain to keep alive and don't do well against fear area effect attacks and other things.

[Øther]

Basically all of the first tier and then a few up.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug

Did you manage to keep your vlish until the end of the game?

No, Dikiyoba had to dump it. G5 limits the number of creation types you can have again, so Dikiyoba couldn't afford the dead weight.

[Untamed Banana Slug]

I loaded up my warrior who has made it to Dera South Shore, and he has two cryoa, one vlish, and a war trall. I haven't played any further, it should be interesting to see how he holds out.