mikeprichard

Totally understood and foreseen (you can't know absolutely everything going on under the hood without getting Jeff to spill all the deets, which he's not going to do) - so when it comes to making the descriptions consistent and "close enough" (including removing the "miniscule" reference from Chain Lightning, which I'd also considered), whatever works!

Ha, thanks, Slarty. I wasn't really doubting you, but suspected these might be bugs - or at least very odd design/balance choices - you were (accurately) describing. I also already had in mind Jeff's fairly abysmal track record with UI descriptions, especially those that may lead people to invest points in skills that do absolutely/almost nothing. That said, based on your and Mech's info, and assuming all of this is intentional and/or not going to change on Jeff's part, I'd appreciate your consideration of fully noting any confirmed "miniscule" damage/duration increases for the various referenced spells/weapon shaping skills, for completeness/accuracy and consistency with your revised Chain Lightning description. (For example, editing the Searer text to state "A third point of this skill increases the duration, and each point of this skill beyond the second increases the damage by a miniscule amount.") Either way, thanks for putting the time and effort into these very useful tweaks.

Nice. Questions for you both, if you don't mind: Slarty: 1) Your Searer description states "A third point of this skill increases the duration." instead of Jeff's "Each extra point of this skill increases the damage." If your version is correct, what exactly do the fourth/fifth/etc. points do? Your text seems to imply they'd be useless (as there's no mention of either further duration increases or any direct damage increases), but I doubt that's the case. 2) You note "Each extra point of this skill does nothing." for War Infusion/Guardian Push/Lifedrain, and "Each extra point of this skill increases the damage by a miniscule amount." for Chain Lightning. If this is in fact the case as of version 1.0, do you know whether Jeff is aware of and will fix these bugs in the next patch (and whether you would also then update the mod accordingly for these fixes and any other known underlying changes)? Alhoon: I loved your G1 Mutagen "smaller fyoras" mod tips (here), because those monstrously large lizards don't look right. Should I be able to apply the same simple trick safely/effectively again here? Specifically, it looks like I added the line "cr_scaling=60" in the "PC created fyora" section, edited "cr_scaling=80" to "60" in the "Rogue Fyora" section, edited "cr_scaling=90" to "60" in the "Enraged Fyora" section, and skipped the "Basic friendly fyora"/"Warped Fyora"/"Charged Fyora"/"cryoa" sections. (Not sure why I skipped the sections I did - maybe those were already smaller.) Cheers.

Got it - basic RPG logic there.

Appreciate the responses; brain malfunction on my part about the "reputation minus leadership < 90" thing, because yeah, Mech's version works out the same. As for my plan, I do intend increases to Leadership to optionally include temporary boosts from the +2 girdle and/or +2 ring, though given Slarty's three simple bullets as the sole apparent criteria for the unaligned ending, I'm not sure whether I'm unnecessarily missing any good rewards by generally avoiding all faction quests after joining each of the three non-Taker factions in turn. That said, I do think (?) the first "to avoid" quests I listed (Destroy Medab Research for the Servants, Destroy the Radiant College for the Awakened, and Tuldaric's Notes for Barzy) would all anger the relevant opposing factions, which might be inconvenient, if not strictly prevent the unaligned ending. In any case, other than the Cockatrice training I don't care about and the need to burn a few plentiful tools to explore the Barrier without Pinner's key, I can't think of anything I'm missing out on.

Thanks, all! I made an edit in line with Mechalibur's point re: the 115 rep threshold affecting Medab/Belik's Crossing/Triola, and agree with Slarty/i that there's a lot going on in these scripts making them tricky to fully interpret (I also appreciate the linking of this topic to Strategy Central). Mechalibur's new list above is also extremely useful (though two points: the rep threshold to join the Awakened appears to be < 95, not <= 90, and "under 90+leadership" doesn't quite seem to convey "only if reputation minus leadership is less than 90" per the corresponding script). I do have a couple questions for anyone who's played through version 1.0 and/or is more adept at reviewing the script files than I: 1) Similar to GF1 Mutagen, is it the case that Learned Darian: a) will only change your reputation to 90 if it's currently greater than 90, or to 110 if it's currently less than 110? EDIT W/ANSWER: sets reputation value to either 90 or 110 regardless of current value b) will only change your reputation once - and if so, once in each direction, or once total? EDIT W/ANSWER: only once total 2) Building on part of the discussion Mechalibur mentioned at Powergaming the Sects? - Geneforge Series - Remasters - Spiderweb Software Forums (ipbhost.com), I'd appreciate any confirmations/corrections to my below detailed min-max powergaming plan to obtain the most quests/bennies/loot while trying to get the good "unaligned" ending: a) Increase Leadership to 6 and join the Servants (which will anger all Takers as long as you are a Servant), but don't do any faction main quests. b) Loot Drypeak Warrens, and buy as much spell/creation/weapon shaping training from Tyallea as possible. c) Increase Leadership to 8 and reduce reputation to less than 95 and join the Awakened, but don't do any faction main quests. d) Loot Medab and Eastern Medab, get altered by Tuldaric and buy as much spell/creation/weapon shaping training from him as possible, complete all Awakened-specific non-main quests, and fully explore the Loyalist Encampment, Barrier of the Wind, and Taker lands. e) Increase Leadership to 10 and reputation to more than 104 and join the Barzites (which will anger all Takers and the Loyalist Encampment as long as you are a Barzite), but don't do any faction main quests. f) Loot Rising and the Radiant College, get the Radiating Essence charm for giving a Conduit Shard to Lacitis in the Radiant College, buy +3 Quick Action training from Guardian Krogst in Mountain Base, and sell as many Shaper Records as possible to Gareth in Gheth. g) Tell Barzahl you're leaving the Barzites, then kill Barzahl and the Taker leaders (Akkat, Easss, and Rhakkus; killing Syros is optional) and loot all Taker items. As long as you remain unaligned with the Servants or the Awakened as of the end of the game, you will get the good "unaligned" ending.

As I plan my min-max munchkin run, I wanted to post for myself and other interested players this comprehensive list of triggers that change reputation, as well as selected important events based on reputation (particularly related to joining factions, meaning there are other reputation-linked events I intentionally didn't include below - notably the fact that Allizar's and Elili's prices improve with higher reputation, Lindian will only trade with you if your reputation is less than 110, and Heust Blade will only join you if your reputation is less than 100). The otherwise generally excellent GF2 Infestation Atlas has several errors in this regard, partly as it's likely based on obsolete game beta info (omissions/incorrect inclusions/incorrect values affecting Baer, Barzahl, Dhorass, Dryss, Fenen, Griffith, Igner, Issss-Ta, Kieron, Learned Pinner, Melathir, Seli, Syros, Zensital, Medab Road trapped servile), but even if the atlas is updated to match the actual full game's reputation values, I thought it would be helpful for this to be in one place. To create the list, I reviewed all game script files that include "dlg" or "dialogue" in their titles for relevant text/events involving reputation (flag "100,0"). However, I'd be much obliged if anyone who's played through version 1.0 (or subsequent game patches in case any of the below changes) would post to confirm any corrections, including e.g. to exact location and quest names, which I would then verify and use to update this list accordingly. Cheers! z0 - Drypeak Ascent Emily - destroy her as a rogue/let her live/tell her to flee - +4/-2/-4 z2 - Drypeak Shanti - reputation question - +3/-2 Keeper Thossila - reputation question - +3/-3 Keeper Thossila - Quest: Find Smart Servile - quest completion by reporting Sencia/lying about Sencia - +5/-5 Takena - tell him to destroy Wyx/tell him to spare Wyx - +2/-2 Zaph - tell him he will answer questions or pay - +3 z3 - Drypeak Warrens Zensital - reputation question - +3/-3 Zakary - reputation question - +3/-3 Zakary - can join Servant faction only if reputation more than 106 or leadership more than 5 Zakary - join Servant faction - +10 Zakary - Quest: Destroy the Magus Complex - quest completion - +5 Zakary - Quest: Destroy the Radiant College - quest completion - +10 Zakary - Quest: Slay the Taker Leaders - quest completion - +10 Zakary - tell him Sage Markov was looking for Canister Factory - +3 Zakary - sell Crystal Cone - +6 z5 - The Crags Braan - tell him you will decide what help he deserves/lie to him about more soldiers arriving soon - +2/-2 Braan - reputation question - +3/-3 z7 - Western Mines Ciphar - reputation question - +3/-3 z8 - Sharon's Grove Sharon - reputation question - +3/-3 z10 - Crystal Caverns Braan's servile - tell it to return to Braan/tell it to escape - +5/-5 z13 - Freegate Brodus Blade - tell him you do not take orders from serviles/thank him for his help - +2/-2 z14 - Medab Road Loyd Blade - reputation question - +3/-3 z15 - Patrolled Path Twini - reputation question - +3/-3 z17 - Medab NOTE: reputation more than 114 will prevent obtaining/using several Awakened quests/merchants in Medab/Belik's Crossing/Triola Carnelian - reputation question - +3/-3 Dayna - reputation question - +3/-3 Seli - Quest: Clear Medab South Road - quest completion - -3 Seli - reputation question after quest - +3/-3 Learned Pinner - tell her it is unlikely you will help/tell her you don’t know but will listen/tell her you would like to hear what she has to say - +3/-1/-3 Learned Pinner - tell her you have no interest in joining Awakened - +3 Learned Pinner - can join Awakened faction only if reputation less than 95 Learned Pinner - join Awakened faction - -10 Learned Pinner - sell Crystal Cone - -6 z18 - Eastern Medab Ghree - reputation question - +3/-3 Lorrick - reputation question - +3/-3 Zensital - tell him to help Awakened - -3 z21 - Belik's Crossing Belik - reputation question after quest - +3/-3 z25 - Magus Complex Loha - reputation question - +3/-3 z26 - Complex Core Tuldaric - reputation question - +3/-3 z31 - Triola Wald - reputation question - +3/-3 z33 - Fort Muck Herik Blade - reputation question - +3/-3 z45 - Gheth Brent - reputation question - +4/-4 Dawn - reputation question - +3/-3 Dawn - Quest: Get Escaped Serviles - quest completion by returning servile - +5 z52 - Darian's Sanctuary Learned Darian - reputation question - +3/-3 Learned Darian - ask her to tell everyone you are pro-servile - sets your reputation to 90 Learned Darian - ask her to tell everyone you are pro-shaper - sets your reputation to 110 z53 - South Rising Road Manny - reputation question - +3/-3 z55 - Rising Trace - reputation question - +5/-5 Selithra - reputation question - +5/-5 Barzahl - can join Barzite faction only if reputation more than 104 Barzahl - join Barzite faction - +10 Barzahl - sell Crystal Cone - +6 z56 - Rising North Gate Zoka - reputation question - +3/-3 Zensital - tell him to join Barzites/tell him to help Awakened - +3/-3 z61 - Radiant College Fenen - reputation question - +3/-3 z68 - Zhass-Uss Issss-Ta - reputation question - +3/-3 Igner - Quest: Spinecore Problem - quest completion - -3 Dhorass - Quest: Kill Melancon - quest completion - -3 Syros - reputation question - +6/-6 Syros - can join Taker faction only if reputation minus leadership less than 90 Syros - join Taker faction - -10 Syros - sell Crystal Cone - -6 z69 - Zhass-Uss Outskirts Baer - reputation question - +5/-5 Kieron - Quest: Recover Pre-Wand - quest completion - -3 Agent Arixy - break her chains/kill her - +5/-5 Zensital - tell him to join Barzites/tell him to join Takers - +3/-3 z76 - Taker Toll Road Dryss - reputation question - +4/-4 z87 - Buck Creek Captain Zosima - tell him he must be destroyed - +3 Grimwing - reputation question - +3/-3 z88 - Everfrost Mine Melathir - tell him his work is leading to disaster/tell him his research is promising - +3/-3 Melathir - tell him he must submit or die - +3

Wow, I didn't realize QW3 might not happen. But as others have pointed out and Jeff mentioned on the G2 remake demo streams recently, he plans to remake G3-G5 and A4 and A5 (not sure about A6) - all of which could definitely benefit from the remake treatment. From his lengthy track record, this is entirely feasible within a ~12-year period.

Since this topic has already been revived and my post seems relevant - I don't own a Mac, and am unsure whether the linked "atlas.sit" file actually works (at all, with or without a code, and/or on modern systems even with emulation), but a few seconds of internet searching turned up the following: Atlas: The Gift of Aramai - Macintosh Repository

Cheers, Mechalibur! There are several IMO equally detestable factions in this one, so planning how to exploit each to the hilt is for me a big part of the fun.

Yeah, I'll see just how munchkiny I want to get. I doubt I'll want to revisit areas just for a few pops of 25XP, but I always rely on the info on this-a-here's Strategy Central.

Helpful to get confirmation (unless something changes again, of course, which is always possible) that the same shameless munchkin tactics I recorded years ago in the original G2 still seem to apply - get stuff from Loyalists > join Awakened for stuff > join Barzites for stuff > kill Barzites/Takers > get unaligned ending (and throughout the process, save all iron bars/shaper equipment/shaper records to get the largest possible XP boosts before any respective points of no return). I also can't be bothered to save all codex entries for a fairly paltry and inconvenient 14x25 = 350XP at endgame, but it's still good to know that could be a thing.

Yeah, I'm shocked he considers 2000 downloads to be a big deal, even recognizing a) it's just a demo and b) his niche is and always has been very much a niche. Of course, this isn't intended to knock him or the game - it's just educational! I'm sure his actual games sell a lot more than 2000, even if only accounting for Steam sales (I always buy on GOG).

Yep, we'll see - and agree with Slarty on A5 not being as "problematic" with the scale issue, as I also felt when I first played it. In that one, at least you don't have the established A1-A3 world to measure against, since you're traveling through entirely new locations. When another user on the stream asked about the world map style in A4-A6, Jeff responded, and I immediately wrote "awwwww...", he said "Welp, I've already succeeded in disappointing people with a game that's years away." He did mention his main reason for originally changing the style in A4 was to keep his creativity flowing with a design shakeup. As you all say, though, even though he's planning for now to stick with the basic design, I do hope he can smooth out some of the rougher edges. (As a side note to the side note, if he wanted to take the 18(00) zones filled with chitrachs and make them... not filled with chitrachs, I wouldn't complain.)

There is a 50% chance my memory of what Jeff said about the exact planned remake order is 100% incorrect... he and Mariann did seem equally ready to bring both A4 and G3 up to their more recent standards, though, and he went on at some length about A4 and A5 both needing an update. As a side note (since I've thoroughly derailed this topic already...), to my great disappointment, he did confirm the A4-A6 remakes will not convert to the separate world map exploration style which I believe is used in all his other games. That's by far what I disliked most about A4-A6 - placing the entire map on a single "zoomed-in" scale killed the sense of the vast scope of the world for me, with locations that were supposed to be 100 miles apart per in-game lore appearing to be about 100 meters apart instead. But I understand that would be an even much bigger overhaul than he's able/willing to take on for the remakes, and for some reason unfathomable to me, apparently some players prefer the zoom. Kind of a moot point regardless, since he'll be taking my money for all remakes almost on day one anyway.

I am "pretty sure" (exuding unjustified confidence here) Jeff is going to stick to the plan of finishing Queen's Vlish 3 next, before the pack of remaining G3-5/A4-6 remakes, and I don't remember him saying anything to the contrary on the Feb 10 stream at least.

I think Jeff mentioned on the Feb 10 stream that A4 might be the next remake before G3 (all post-QW3 of course), though I could be misremembering and getting that backwards. Whatever the exact order, he seems very keen to remake G3, A4, and A5 especially (as well as A6).

And as Jeff himself realizes, even the current remakes as of today are a bit clunky with e.g. greater than 1080p resolutions etc. He could keep remaking the remakes every 10-15 years and always have something to do to keep all of his games - even the more relatively recent ones like A6 - mostly current from a technical standpoint.

Both Jeff and Mariann mentioned several times on the recent Feb 10 Steam G2 demo stream that G3 was the weakest of the series, and is due for a more significant overhaul in the remake. How far that actually goes obviously remains to be seen. (In response to my and others' points in the chat, they were similarly hyped for the upcoming A4-A6 remakes.)

They may in fact also hint at the sacrifices, but they're just flavor pop-ups (appearing in the southeastern area of the southern Kranas, and again in the southern area of the northern Kranas), and have nothing to do with the timing of the Cestus judgment or anything else.

OK, thanks for the replies - I admit I'm also not looking to go through that kind of testing for something I'm not especially interested in, and it seems nobody else is likely to want to invest the time either.

One more sorta tangential question - what exactly does the "Damage to Kranas/Dhaga/Litha" effect given by the Conqueror's Venom necklace and some runes do? Does it a) add +5 physical and magical damage whenever fighting any enemies in those respective provinces, b) apply that bonus anywhere in the game but only when fighting human enemies from those provinces, or c) something else, and if so, what?

1) Missing rep changes: a) In the Low Dhaga section, as an alternative to ""(Just leave.)" -2R" with the young Ro hunters surrounded by lizards, the option "Help them!" gives +2R. b) Defeating the final group of scorpions east of the Shattered City gives +2R. c) Defeating Pitmaster Grenich in the arena gives +2R and +2V. d) Attacking the Geld Nas camped east of Deep Post Anelace gives -3R. 2) Errors: a) Paying Sparl to free Raiman gives -2R and -3V, not -2R and -2V. b) "Amberl (Sisilyn) [sp]" should be "Amberl (Isskale)" (with the entry also logically moved below the "Amberl (Ruska)" entry, since Isskale is encountered after Ruska). She isn't ever encountered in Ssilyn, as far as I'm aware. c) The "(Pull out the sword.)" entry is for Tranquility Path, not Tehrorman as listed. Also, adding an empty line for clarity between the Spiral Mine and this item would be helpful. d) The line "They will be honored by your interest. Perhaps someday you will, when your current work is done." is spoken by Darmal, not the player character. This is a bit confusing, as it's inconsistent with the rest of the list where the player character's dialogue choices are instead listed as the reputation triggers. Unfortunately, I didn't write down the exact PC dialogue choice that leads to this one. e) There was another very minor error somewhere (I think it was the difference between +/- 1V vs. 2V), but unfortunately I didn't note it at the time. If I remember later, I'll edit this post to describe the issue, but it's unlikely. 3) Formatting: Many of the outdoor encounter listings, Sutter and Delia mirror dialogues, and High Litha and Kranas listings are out of logical order in terms of when you're likely to encounter them - e.g. the "Open the coaches." Low Dhaga encounter is in the northern part of the province, but is listed near the top of the section among encounters in the southern half. This is obviously not a critical issue, but as a more chronological ordering may be useful to readers, I thought I'd mention it. Thank you!

I've verified most of them in game, if that helps. Also as noted, many are typos and/or inconsistencies with your "resources" topic, so game version updates aren't relevant. If it's still not possible to update the top post, I guess people will need to read both the top post and then search through the topic for my corrections for accurate current data - whatever works. (4 December 2022) I found several more substantive errors in the above list, and have consolidated all issues found to date here in this bottom post, also in line with my post in the "QW2 - Resources" forum topic: Errors in "QW2 - Atlas of Quests and Item Locations" topic data: - missing wood (5) / stone (2) / iron (4) / quicksilver (2) reward from picking Yvette as governor - missing wood (2) / stone (1) reward from getting Raasa Elha's permission to travel Pilgrimage Road - "Geld Nes [sp] assassin (after getting second part of Geld Nas quest) - can let go with bribe - Clarity Brew quicksilver (1)" - "Kranas Claim - wood (5), iron (4 5)" - "Claim of High Litha - wood stone (5), quicksilver (2)" - "300 XP for rest, 100c if don’t give bonuses to convicts - less resources reduced by wood (3), stone (3) if convicts killed only wood (3), stone (3)" - "Esker Keep - wood (15), stone (20), iron (4 5)" - "Trader Tsuenai [sp] - Tsuenai’s End [sp] - Deep Metal, stone (1) (or if spared by Geld Nas stone (2)), 300 XP - "Shattered City - wood (5), stone (5) - fully cleared wood (10), stone (5 10)" - "Oravera Claim - stone (5), quicksilver (1 2)" - "The White Crypts - stone (3), quicksilver (1 2)" - "Larokan Ruins [sp] - stone (2) given by Captain Azucena in Esker Keep after fully clearing" - missing healing potion and truth scourge rewards from encounters in Aram Peaks - (there are many other errors in the data, but the above are the ones - mostly with a focus on fort resources - I happened to find) Errors in "QW2 - Resources" topic data (also noted in my subsequently edited post in that topic): - missing iron (1) optional bribe from Head Kuanysh Cestus judgment - missing quicksilver (1) optional bribe from Geld Nas assassin Cestus judgment - missing stone (3) optional reward from Altynay Cestus judgment - missing wood (4) / stone (1) / iron (3) / quicksilver (1) reward from killing the Young Heart Tree in Tehrorman - Gentle Coast / Litha Claim - wood stone (5), quicksilver (2) - Shattered Ruins - wood (5), stone (5) - fully cleared wood (10), stone (5 10)

Following up with more consistency issues between this topic, the QW2 Resources topic, and the game data (many thanks to Randomizer for their time and patience potentially updating both of these very useful topics' top posts accordingly for readers' future reference): (3 December 2022) I've added another error to my list, and moved it to my post at the bottom of topic for easier visibility.