mikeprichard

Yes, the Far-Fletch Clan and several other trainers are listed in darint's post (just below the OP) - not sure if they're going to get added to the OP.

Thanks for the XP trait data, Slarty! Barely one extra level at endgame is about what I expected (that's also how the traits worked out in A:EFTP), so IMO they're not really worth it - the difference between (say) a level 33 and a level 34 party isn't enough for me to justify bumping two other traits, even for humans. But of course, that all depends on your party build. Anyway, good to know. And Triumph - I remember gold having a max carry amount back in the original Avernum trilogy, but I didn't think it's been like that for the past several games. Best to let the experts weigh in, though; I'm still only at level 6.

Randomizer - the wisdom crystal in the Northern Caverns (first area) definitely doesn't work with CL 2 (my party currently has CL 4 but Luck 0, and doesn't get the crystal; the dialogue message even says "How unlucky."). The OP should probably be updated to remove the "CL 2?". Thanks, and amazing work as always.

Thanks, Randomizer - that's one more thing that'll eventually be out of my luggage. EDIT: Just saw Slarty's new topic that's replaced this one in Strategy Central; it also explains this. Thanks again.

It looks like iron bars are only needed for the Fort Draco/Kellia quest, which is completed when the barriers come down - so there are no quest/XP rewards for collecting them after that point, ja?

Thanks for the heads-up, Lilith - I'm going to use the editor as well at that point. I think losing out on the Resistance crystal is enough of a penalty to my Sage Lore party build as it is, anyway.

Right, I was planning on using summons more as meatshields for tough boss fights, but I still might change up a couple of those traits; I'm only at level 3 so far. Going back to the XP thing, it'd be great if anyone who's further along could post some data - or I'll just test out the XP traits myself later (comparing characters with one and both XP traits to characters with no XP traits). If I do and nobody else has come up with much in the meantime, I'll post what I found.

Cool, thanks. That was one reason I was planning on waiting until a patch came out. I did also see someone reporting save file corruption issues (or something about someone walking around with a spear equipped that suddenly disappeared? - some weird stuff I can't find again on the forums right now), which would be nasty, but I guess I'll just hope that doesn't happen to me.

Have fun - I'm just starting on Normal, but I think that group should see you through Torment. Later!

Nobear - great ideas; I'm stealing them! Recovery on the fighter is probably redundant with his QA, and the loss of Fast Recovery on everyone except for the "main" priest (it makes sense for him at least to have that from a roleplaying perspective) is more than compensated for by having 3 Mass Healers. I'm updating my older post with your suggestions; good one.

So it looks like all level 3 spellbooks are actually in the game and accessible in version 1.0 for Windows/Mac? I thought I read somewhere that some of them were still missing/bugged.

This is why I plan every skill, trait, and training point for each party member before I start a playthrough. Totally not obsessive at all.

Ahhhhh OK!

Good question - I was also wondering whether that trait pick was worthwhile compared to maybe the Luck traits or something else. 2 extra summoned monster levels per Summoning Focus trait sounds really good if you actually use summons, but I'm not sure how it works out in practice - or if it works at all with Simulacrum.

Darn, bad news. It's not a huge problem if you plan for it, but if you train your two points before you "max" the skill (at 10 for most skills), you'll only be able to get the skill to 10, not 12... which is very annoying for us min-maxers.

Minor typo in the initial nephilim castle - the nephar chieftan's dialogue has him shaking his "hand" instead of his "head" (the latter makes more sense in context). Speaking of which - no offense, Slarty, but I think you've misspelled "retroactivity" in your sig. Obviously not important; I'm just nuts.

I was also wondering if it still worked this way in A2:CS. I hope not, but please let us know if you do test it out!

Thanks, Lilith; I get it - so I'll probably max at Swordmage x3. And Slarty, I'll look out for those armors; they might free up another trait or two to test out the XP bonus traits. Again, I vaguely recall they only added barely another level by the endgame in A:EFTP (nothing to sneeze at, but not mind-blowing) due to only tacking 5-9% onto the diminishing monster XP returns, but I could be misremembering and/or they could be better this time around, depending on how XP is distributed.

I'm not quite clear on how Swordmage/casting mage spells in encumbering armor works. If you start with the ability to cast mage spells in up to 5% encumbering armor, and each Swordmage trait adds 10% to that, how would only two Swordmage traits (10% + 10% + 5% = 25% encumbrance as max for mage spells) allow you to get to 30-35% encumbrance without incurring a spell penalty?

I'm definitely confusing my Avernums these days - good to know bows/thrown contribute fully to disciplines now (as they should!). I also noticed Lethal Blow is now (apparently?) no longer applied to magic damage, so I removed those unnecessary Lethal Blow +2s from my three magic users. As for traits, hadn't thought about the XP traits - they generally weren't too great an investment in older games. So which of my current traits (I've edited my original post) would you suggest switching out for Luck x2 and XP x2? And looky, this thread done got stickied.

Slarty - great feedback; I was unsure about some of those traits. 1) I'll dump Riposte Mastery x2 in favor of the extra Endurance x2 traits to get to max Endurance - otherwise, I can't think of anything more important for the fighter's traits. 2)&3) I see your point on the Healing Focus/Swordmage x4 seeming somewhat unnecessary, but again, I don't see much urgent need for trait points elsewhere (unless maybe in Endurance?). 4) I was trying to get 15 in weapons for all characters to get Adrenaline Rush without having to rely on equipment bonuses - so that's the reasoning behind the 10 in melee for all. But I guess if money is as plentiful as you say, maybe I can just train everyone in thrown weapons +2 as well to make up for dropping melee to 8+2 from 10+2 and still get that "natural" AR access (assuming in A2:CS, each point in bows and thrown counts as a full battle discipline point, and not only a half point as in earlier games)?

Thanks, Bonam - that's a useful reference. I'll do some testing when I get to the point of access for the FR trait. And I forgot about the tinker's gloves; right you are, Slarty. So I think I've pretty much settled on my tank/priest x1.5/mage x2 party - updating my prior post. Thanks for the advice folks.

Bonam - a completionist will also want 8 TU on one character for the level 3 Icy Rain book - so your Priest 2 would need to take Nimble Fingers x2 (EDIT: or tinker's gloves + Nimble Fingers x1 - thanks Slarty) for that. Or not, if you don't care about the book. Slarty - great, thanks. I'll mess around with the trait, though I frankly can't think of any other urgent place to put my excess crazy 24 trait points within my above plan. In general on this topic, I personally need to have at least one DW tank in my party - it might not be "optimal" (especially on Torment) in terms of the ridiculous power of magic damage, but having one dedicated double ginsu knife is just too damn fun.

OK, I'm becoming more convinced to switch one of my DW tanks over to a mage(16)/priest(8) combo. Last thing - how useful do you find First Aid and/or the Fast Recovery trait in the mid/late-game? You'll see I'm considering the 8 trained points of First Aid, plus one FR trait for each player, but curious how that would eventually play out in terms of post-battle SP recovery.

Yeah, but like I say, I'm still waiting for version 1.0.0.0.0.1... Thanks for answering the lazy question, all the same. So back to my original meta-question - do you/others find it at all tedious to play mostly/only mage characters when it comes to having slightly more micro-management in terms of party placement and SP management (compared to more dedicated tanks that can just walk up and kill single targets)? Or maybe I'm making too much of the issue. Like I say, I've always done two tanks/one priest/one mage, but I'm thinking of mixing in more magic this time around.