Blurb

G5 is a good game to start people with because the engine is so much better than the others. It's addicting.

Once I knew what I was doing (more or less), I did try the Warrior and used Randomizer's build ideas. It really was fun! (Plus, he looks better than the dorky Lifecrafter.) But if had tried it in the beginning, I wouldn't have fared so well. I agree. DV is an excellent and creative strategist. He really made the game fun (and winnable) for me.

Which character are you playing? I really recommend reading Delicious Vlish's character build suggestions in Strategy Central, especially for the Shaper-type characters. This really is a Shaper's game more than any of the others, I think. If you are playing a loner type character like the Agent or Servile, it can be pretty tough.

I think this is the one Shaped item you have to buy. If I recall, Perikalia had the best price.

This is odd. There were places throughout G5 where certain enemies just disintegrated during a battle scene with out ever getting hit. I always thought I must have done something, but ... it kept happening, so I know I didn't. It happened several times in the game, but not in Dera South Shore when I played.

Same thing happened to me, Doom. I was trapped trying to loot the blue box and had to kill him. The other golem helped. Best thing to do is, once everything is dead in the zone, go out an exit and come back in and they're gone.

The first golems in the northeast die before you go into the room with the bad energy field. However, there is another pair of golems who will help once you escape the energy room. They are in the southwest corner. They are extremely helpful. Also, they don't die. They will follow you (annoyingly so) until you leave.

Sounds like it might be a bug. I believe I read here recently that someone else also had problems with missing items. Might be good to post this on the technical support thread?

Thuryl is right. I played one game completely canister crazy and there was only one instance (Dera Bridge in the Dera Reaches) where it appeared a fight was imminent because of it. My PC felt uncontrollable "rage" or something, but leadership was high and the Unbound came and the soldiers helped fight it. No rage fight. A very few bits of dialogue about it. I would say it isn't worth worrying about in G5.

In Below Noyde Pass, there are some serviles who are hiding to the northwest. You can choose to help them or attack them. (servile versus Shaper reputation.) If you slay them, the leader of the group drops a Thahdskin Tunic. Even if you are playing as a servile sympathizer, you can still get away with killing them (just keep the balance more pro-servile). Also, don't offer to help them first and then kill them, or the guy who buys your swamp herbs in the South (and all his pals) will go hostile on you. Just know that it might feel kind of lousy to kill these folks. I think the leader is from Penta and the rest are, like, 20 HP refugee weaklings. (It made a huge difference in my game with +2 strength for my Shaper and Agent PC, but I did play multiple times and was unable to do it after maybe the second time.)

G1 for much the same reasons Slarty mentioned. It's just completely compelling, absorbing, and full of innocence. (The later Geneforges lack the innocence.) However, for playability and engine, I vote G5 hands down. I bought Avernum 5 and thought this might emerge as a favorite. I really loved it! Well, I did ... until... I could not continue beyond the Vahanti lands. I'm not sure why. One day I when I was at that point I walked away and never went back.

Do you have a recent save? I did the same as you and had to go back to the autosave and re-kill more of those beasts again.

You can find a trainer in the place with all the kryshakks. It's called "Abandoned Farm" (abandoned something, anyway). He's in the house to the north. You have to get past the pylons (turn off a couple to get through). Just tell him what he wants to hear and he'll train you.

There is one in the Storm Plains. I think, if I'm not mistaken, it is either Podling Crossroads or Western Pass in the nest of either the mama podling or a mama fyora. I believe it looks just like a shaped belt, so be careful and don't sell it.

Oh, you probably know this, but don't forget about enlisting the other minds' aide before the challenge, as mentioned above. After talking to the nasty one, tell him you'll get back with him, go get the other minds' help, then come back, tell the S-Mind you're ready, etc. I tried hanging onto the bugs, too. I get attached. If you get the green rotters, they have 12 AP, so they can get two attacks. (You can get a canister in the Western Passes after defeating the naughty Eye there that will enable the higher level rot. You will need regular rots to defeat the Eye. At least, I did.) Intelligence really needs to be high for Shapers, so that you can support a large and powerful army. Without that, the Shaper is too weak a character.

Okay, I'm going on some bad memory here and will amend my post so as not to mislead. Also I incorrectly stated "intelligence" instead of "leadership." I'm on a quick work break so writing too fast. The bottom is even better ... not so far to walk. Try to go west of the minds to try to block the rogues. I think weak creations may be an issue. Honestly I strugged horribly with strategies and restarted the game a number of times before discovering that with a Shaper character, I had to pump Shaping and Intel almost to the exclusion of everything else and switch to powerful creations. Then it was ridiculous easy. I played only on normal at that point.

I think there is no solution to fighting the rogue Synthesis Mind. I had very high Leadership and still had to take him down. I think you might be better off to ditch the bugs and get some rotdhizons. Also, after talking to the the S-Mind, leave him in battle mode. Don't fight him yet. The waves of rogues start at the bottom (not top!) and go up. Buff and once over, go to the next. Once There are at least two waves, I think, so repeat the process. Once the rogues are gone, then go back to the nasty mind. He is weakened by now, so he is easier to kill.

I never lost any of the minds (and few of the minds' creations). Are you playing solo on or torment?

I know that's doable, Dok, because I've seen people post that they have been able to keep leveled up second- and third-tier creations. I tried it. For me, the creations struggled just past mid-game and I started to have trouble, and this was with Shaping skills high so they started out really strong. As soon as I replaced them, it was a 180 for me. Rots, in particular, turned the whole thing around. It must be said that I am very much what folks around here call "a casual player." I play on normal and don't want to fuss around too much heaping on extra challenges. I like the plots and characters and am pretty decent with fighting strategy if I have a good crew.

As a Shaper-type character, I pump intelligence extremely high, usually in the mid/high 20s by the end of the game. This enables me to have seven powerful creations pretty much throughout the game. I don't think leaving Intelligence in the high teens will give your weak PC as much power as you need. Otherwise, I mostly pump Shaping skills, #1 battle, #2 Magic (for wingbolts), #3 fire (enough to get drayks). I think I may have put a point into Endurance. Check out Strategy Central for build ideas by Randomizer and Delicious Vlish, both of whom are excellent strategists. (Randomizer can figure his way around anything in the game, too.) I wasn't doing too well until I started reading up in SC. G5, to me, had too many changes to play the way I had played the previous Geneforge games.

I would like to have seen more about the overall feel of G5 rather than mechanics of movement. Also, some mention of the way G5 has of completely absorbing the player into the Shaper/rebel world would have been nice. I really *felt* those ethical dilemmas as I played and struggled with them. How often does that happen in a game? However, I was really happy with the review overall because it did offer the positive outlook that the game deserved. The first review was ridiculous. Now there was someone who didn't even bother to play the game and was in no position to talk about the fine points (or even the basics) of the game.

How fun! I highly recommend PC users just go ahead and buy this game. It's awesome. I played it an embarasssing number of times with different PCs. Shaping rules.

I'm still very curious about that southeast door. Has anybody found the secret to unlocking it? It's been bugging me.

Originally Posted By: A PDN by any other color Critical opinion holds that Shakespeare's masterpieces are the plays you listed, Mystic. His comedies are funny, but they aren't as deep, or maybe their depths are less accessible. This is a bias of longstanding, that comedies aren't deep. This bias affects Oscar picks and TV show ratings, too. Oddly, really good comedies are often far more multilayered and the best of them are far deeper than the tear-jerkers or the angst-filled tragedies. The best ones can make us laugh at the human condition and the daily tragedies we face. (They are much harder to write and produce also. Consider how difficult it is to *develop* wit. You have it or you don't.) Critics often include Hamlet on their best of the Bard's tragedies lists, but I was directed to Othello, Richard II, and Henry IV Part One for their "unique" contributions to dramatic literature. Often, the reasons for placing a work in a best list is not just how it stands up by itself, but also how seminal it is. I will always have a soft spot for A Midsummer Night's Dream (ridiculously silly) and As You Like It (a rather *nothing* romantic pastoral comedy). Critics. Pffft!

I've only played Geneforge, so I don't have the other JV gaming repertoire to compare. But I do find no real swarming in A5, which is a refreshing change. In the event of nasty plants, true haste helps, too. (Haste in G5 was barely worth the spell energy.) I think I came into this thinking I would use the same strategies as Geneforge, but I don't need them. I just got into the Northwest Quadrant and haven't had any real trouble. (I'm playing on Easy to enjoy the game the first time; then Normal later). The Golem at the Stone Circle took out my weak character, but the *unconscious* thing (yay!) makes this easily resolved. Other movement that I find interesting: -- No doorway blocking! In A5, they just switch positions! No character gets pummeled while the others scramble to get an attack view or with melee characters just passing turns. -- Rapid party movement through areas. With vast, open terrain, this makes revisiting a remote cave much easier. G5 movement is more lifelike and probably more suited to its gameplay. -- True haste. You can send a player into an exploding floor cave with nasty bats to get a great jacket and he lives to tell the tale. I can't say how much more I like just playing this game than I did G5 because of haste. I did like G5, but for me way too much was nerfed, making the game less fun. -- Healing from afar. The priest doesn't have to basically walk up to a melee character in the line of fire to heal. This is all minutiae to veteran players, but the differences are making gameplay very interesting for an Avernum newb like me.