Celtic Minstrel

The slime pit (where you need to fireball the pools) wasn't possible in BoE before, but I believe it's possible in OBoE. I don't know about the number puzzle. The moving walls may or may not be possible already; I can't say for sure because I'm not sure how they actually work. There's also Skribbane addiction, joining the Anama... not sure if those are possible quite like in E3. There's also the possibility for towns to be game over if you're caught stealing; I think that's in OBoE but wasn't in the original BoE. Oh, and the dialogs in various places, such as the slime pit, aren't currently possible in OBoE. Maps however are possible now.

The limit is somewhere in the vicinity of four billion (or to be exact, two to the power of thirty-two), so there's no danger of running out. This applies both to the number of types and to the number of things placed on a map.

 

I think the limit on outdoor sections and towns hasn't changed (yet).

I made another build. You can download it for Windows or Mac.

It saves the entire PC, including stats, inventory, status effects, etc.

If the absent status worked at all in LBoE, I believe that was a bug in LBoE - it was never documented and as far as I know, no-one ever actually used it.

 

I guess it's good that you got something working (though I'll note that attempting to make your method character-editor-proof is still going to be futile, since there's no guarantee the character editor won't gain additional abilities too). If you delete the characters, there's basically no going back if I recall correctly, so if you want to let the player switch out their character, you'll need to use the store/unstore mechanism. Assuming it works as it should, that means you need to do the following:

 

1. Reserve 6 SDFs to store the party's unique IDs.
   
2. Store each of the PCs.
   
3. To unstore, set a pointer to point to the SDF that stores the PC you want to unstore.
   
4. Then use the pointer value (a negative number) as the PC ID in the unstore node.
   

 

I don't think it's possible to use unstore without pointers, unless the unique IDs of PCs are predictable... which they might be, I can't remember.

Just so others know, Remington hopped on IRC, where I have been helping him out.

Oh ok ..didnt know that so how do you get OBoE? you all been saying it doesn't work right though? are you able to copy your scenario over to it? I still like the way I have the node setup as is but it sounds like I could do alot more.

Experimental, buggy versions can be downloaded at my website if you want to try them. At this point, if you want to work on your scenario, I'd recommend not using OBoE. I'll also point out that OBoE requires at least Windows XP (and I can't guarantee it works even there, though I seem to recall someone saying it does at one point). I wouldn't expect this to be a problem for you, but who knows?

 

You can convert legacy scenarios to OBoE format with a menu option. It informs you of any specific changes you may need to make where OBoE broke compatibility with legacy scenarios, then you can accept and it will switch.

Actually, that's not a menu option. It just comes up automatically when you save your scenario... or when you load it... one of those.

 

Just a note, based on the description of nodes 106 and 107, those clearly should not be affected by the editor's Reunite Party function -- as that would be more likely to create errors than to fix them.

Yeah, store/unstore have nothing to do with the editor's Reunite Party function. If I'm reading my code correctly though, the Reunite Party function both in the editor and as a special node does work on parties that have been split using Kill/Raise instead of Split Party. I haven't actually tested this however.

Nodes 106 and 107 are new in OBoE, so assuming you're using the original version (from Spiderweb's website), you can't use those. If you're working on the original version, you should reference the docs that came with it, not the ones that are up on calref.

 

That's one way, but you could also make them step on a Stairway node that teleports them to the true starting location in the true starter town.

I knew he made it flexible but I didn't know it resisted the Character Editor.

I'm not actually sure if it resists the Character Editor when you explicitly set a character to "absent" (the status used when the party is split); that passage in the manual is referring to the Reunite Party special node, not the Reunite Party option in the Character Editor. If it does resist though, I'd consider that a bug.

 

However, if I recall correctly, you can also explicitly set a character to "nonexistent", so assuming I do recall correctly, it's still possible to delete characters in a way that the PC editor can't restore.

 

It also seems like that manual entry is rather out-of-date, given that it doesn't actually specify the values you used for things like "absent".

 

But wait, no, he must be using the new one.

His screenshots show otherwise in two ways: a) bright graphics and b) native-looking scrollbars.

Progress report! Fixed these bugs:

 

- When saved game is loaded, characters with spell points start at 0 regardless of where they were at when game was last saved.

 

- Add/Remove Mage Lore skill in training window affects the Mage Spells skill, not Mage Lore.

 

- Character editor: “Item 2” menu gives the item two slots below, e.g. selecting “Iron Javelins” gives “Lemonwood Bow”

 

- Character editor: “Item 3” menu gives the item four slots below, e.g. selecting “Scroll: Flame” gives “Scroll: Kill”

 

- Character editor: “Item 4” menu gives the item six slots below, e.g. selecting “Gold Ring” gives “Silver Ring of Weight”

 

- Character editor: “Add Mage Spells” and “Add Priest Spells” have no effect.

 

- Scenario editor: In Scenario menu, Advanced section, starting with “Edit Horses”, the menu option two slots below is called. For example, choosing “Edit Horses” calls “Variable Town Entry”

 

- ZA-KHAZI RUN, Town 0: Boats don’t appear despite being placed.

 

Plus the issue where items didn't appear at all (similar to the boats issue), and another issue with the PC editor item menus (the last three or so items were sometimes missing due to bad rounding).

 

 

These bugs are still not addressed:

- “A Small Rebellion” file corrupted? Entering scenario seems to make save files unreadable.

 

- Scenario editor: “One Time Display Dialog” node - clicking “edit text” causes the editor to crash if text number at -1.

 

- ZA-KHAZI RUN, Town 0: Ghost in Fort Goodling has merchant talking picture.

 

- ZA-KHAZI RUN, Town 0: Message telling player they “can’t enter” docks until they have supplies does not actually block them.

BoE has those portal nodes where only one PC gets to go through, right? It might be messy, but is there a way to enter one of those at the start and just never reunite with the party? (Not sure how that works with town changes.)

It doesn't work very well; if you exit town and re-enter, the items of the missing PCs are dropped. As far as I know, reuniting would still work in that case, though; they just would no longer have their stuff.

 

(which if i remember correctly dust status you cannot be ressurected?)

You can resurrect from dust status. It just requires a higher-level spell.

 

Ennui Im glad to atleast hear that it can be possible to make it work, for me I'd rather FORCE them to play with 1 PC at a time, It just feels better to me that they HAVE to rather then choosing not to and ruining my whole experience for the player.

This is literally impossible within the BoE engine and always has been, thanks to the existence of the character editor.

 

The all mighty doer of stuff, Im not getting what your saying. I just checked the character editor with a loaded party or not and I dont see how you can "add" party members after there past the node or even before it.

 

1. If a character died, or if you used the Split Party node, the character editor can bring back the missing party members.
   
2. It is possible to add new PCs after the game begins, without using the character editor, but as I recall, you need to be in the town you started in; so you can easily get around that by making the startup town a "setup" town that removes 5 party members and then takes you to a different town.
   

 

I also note that the original Blades of Exile clearly leaned more towards giving the designer control than you guys are, as the removal of the scenario password and Shift-D restriction you mention demonstrates.

That isn't really relevant here, given that the scenario password never restricted use of the character editor, only the scenario editor.

 

 

Long story short, Remington - you need to design under the assumption that the character editor does not exist. There is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent people from using the character editor (or saved games in general), so there's no point in even trying. There's nothing wrong with trying to force the player to use only one PC, though. If they take the effort get around it, that's their fault for ignoring your instructions. You've said that most people will cheat, but to be honest, I don't think that's the case unless cheating is easier than just playing the game. In this case, cheating means:

 

1. Save your game.
   
2. Open your saved game in the character editor, make changes, save results.
   
3. Return to game, reopen your saved game.
   

 

I don't see how you could call that easier than just continuing to play with a single character, as you want them to.

Presumably you're working on original BoE so this doesn't apply, but pretty much everything you mentioned is theoretically not a problem in OBoE. This doesn't help you right now, since OBoE is unstable and unplayable, but from the sounds of it you're going to be taking quite a long time with other aspects of your design, so perhaps OBoE will be usable by the time you get to wanting some of its new capabilities.

 

To answer your questions (unless otherwise noted, these answers only apply to OBoE):

1. It's possibly to make NPC that will join the party as a full party member - in effect, transforming an NPC into a PC. There's no way in either version of BoE to force a player to start with only one character though, short of deleting (or, in OBoE, storing) all but one when the scenario starts.
   
2. There is absolutely no way in either version of BoE to give the player penalties for full party death. I believe there already exist penalties for PC death, though. I have no intention of ever adding anything that would subvert the ability to load the game where you left off. Personally, I think you shouldn't be concerned about this. Save-scumming is boring usually, but if someone's so dedicated that they can be bothered to do it, then I see no reason to stop them.
   
3. There is a new way to affect fog of war in OBoE, if I recall correctly. If there isn't, it would be trivial to add.
   
4. This is really just a matter of opinion, really. It's easy to prevent outdoor battles either by not setting up the wandering encounters or by not ever allowing the party to leave town. Personally, I think a few outdoor battles makes a vast outdoors more interesting, though. They don't necessarily need to be random ones - if you dislike wandering encounters, you could just use the fixed outdoor battle encounters.
   
5. These limits are pretty much all removed in OBoE. You can have effectively unlimited amounts of terrains, items, etc. For pre-OBoE though, it has been common practice to turn furniture into items (rather than terrains), which would save a fair amount of terrain slots. Of course, item slots are the most limited, so whether that's a good idea really depends.
   

—Alorael, who supposes one could also download the Windows version, copy the graphics over the newer graphics in a Mac installation, and then feel successful without having to resort to having or emulating window.

This would probably be very difficult, given how the graphics are represented in the Mac version of Exile 1. (I think Exile 2 would be slightly easier.) First of all, both Exile 1 and Exile 2 store their graphics in the resource fork, so you'd need a resource editor... if you're able to play the Mac version, you can probably also run ResEdit, though. Secondly, Exile 1 doesn't really use tilesheets to the same extent as the Windows version - many of the graphics are split up with one tile per resource, and furthermore, if I recall correctly, even those that are on a tilesheet are not necessarily arranged the same as in the Windows tilesheets.

 

It's probably easier to just set up a Windows 3.x install in DOSBox and use the Windows versions directly, as I have.

Well, I doubt he'll ever release the source to the original trilogy, but he did release the source to Blades of Exile, so it would in principle be possible to remake the Exile trilogy on that engine. I'm not recommending it, mind you (in particular, permission would be needed!), but it is roughly the same engine as E3.

 

(Of course, BoE also needs to be stable before you can do anything like that with it...)

I've fixed two of those if I recall correctly - the Advanced section in the Scenario menu, and the Mage Lore training issue.

 

In addition to the missing boats, it seems that there are missing items in some scenarios, for example in the first storeroom in Valley of Dying things. I'm not sure what to make of these issues... but I suppose I will have to investigate soon since they essentially make the game unplayable.

Well, that error definitely indicates it's not linking against zlib - the gzclose() function is defined in the zlib .lib/.dll, so if it was linking against it, it would've resolved the symbol. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be linking against it though... sorry...

That's certainly one way in which BoE was better, as it allowed you to place your summons when in combat. (When summoning from town mode they would still appear randomly, though.) I'm guessing the issue here for BoA is that the engine has no way to target an empty space... which I guess is also why spells like Unlock and Move Mountains(?) were changed to radius spells.

I'm a little baffled by a moment in the most recent episode. You tried Divine Retribution on the eyebeasts. You determined that they were immune to it. You then tried Arcane Blow — which does the same type of damage as Divine Retribution. Seeing that they were immune to that, you then tried Lightning Spray — which again does the same type of damage! If something's immune to one of those spells, it will be immune to all of those spells. It would be like trying Bolt of Fire and then Divine Fire and then Fireblast — they're all fire, so an immunity to fire makes something immune to all of those.

I don't think that's quite the same situation. Bolt of Fire, Divine Fire, and Fireblast very obviously deal the same type of damage. Divine Retribution, Arcane Blow, and Lightning Spray do not obviously deal the same type of damage. In fact, while I could understand expecting the first two to do the same type of damage (magic damage), it would be quite reasonable to expect Lightning Spray to deal a different type of damage (electricity).

 

Basically, the fact that those three spells deal the same type of damage just isn't as obvious as it is with the three fire spells, so it shouldn't be so surprising to see someone trying all three on the same monster.

I don't remember exactly how long Melliput Mobsters is, but I know it's short. If I recall correctly, you basically go through three dungeons. Whether that takes more than 2 hours as Tarsus suggests though, I can't remember.

 

I think there were also one or two unfinished but non-essential features in the main town, including the ability to play a card game and something about a hotel. So you may want to avoid those, or at least save before trying them in case something goes wrong.

 

Someday I'll probably come back to it and finish them. Probably. We can hope.

I just want to point out that "current HP or SP" is not really a stat, if you define stats as the things you can put skill points into.

 

I hadn't thought of using some other skill in place of Str/Dex in the calculations... hmm...

 

Cleave as an item ability might be doable, sure. I'll put that on the list. (It might be doable with the "call special on hit" ability, but such items can't be carried between scenarios, so even if it's possible it'd be nicer to have it as a dedicated ability.)

 

The specific help page on items is here if you haven't found it already.

Ah, so Burano was a case of multiple names for the same scenario. Okay then.

 

Besides TrueSite there's also the Alexandria database, by the way. I think they probably have all the same scenarios, but not 100% sure.

I do think it makes more sense in the BoE forum, and would've probably moved it myself once it stopped getting as much attention. If you feel "higher exposure" isn't a good enough reason for it to be here though, by all means move it.

True, that possibility does exist. However, there were some that clearly didn't make sense, such as petrification touch on the cockroaches. This was almost certainly caused by a reshuffling of which magic number meant what, while failing to update bladbase references to it.

Interesting! I never would've guessed they'd summon ghasts... actually given their paralysis touch it kinda surprises me that they'd maybe have another ability too.

 

As long as you're investigating E3 stuff, I'd like to confirm the abilities of some of the monsters I've never encountered - particularly rakshasa and naga, where it's not obvious from the name what kind of abilities they should have. (I've also never encountered the golems or the efreet, but those are fairly clear, I think.) I also wanted to confirm whether the alien slime is supposed to have an ability besides summoning (I think it has paralysis touch in BoE), but given that that's near the beginning, I could probably do it myself with a god party. That's all I can think of right now.