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The penalty for Dual Wielding is never -40%. In A:EFTP, it's -20%. The -20% to-hit is really only meaningful at very low levels, after that you'll cap to-hit with a good build anyway. The -20% to damage sounds bad, but it's really -0.2 to the damage multiplier, and there are eventually a lot of things that add to that -- various skills, traits, spell effects, and item attributes. Even ignoring those, you're getting two 80% hits instead of one 100% hit. In A2:CS and A3:RW, it goes up to -35%. This sounds like a lot, but dual wielding still outclasses single wielding more than handily. This is, however, one more thing that adds to the dominance of spell damage in A2:CS. Spellcraft does not act like an extra level of mage or priest spells. It adds to the spellcasting damage/healing/duration multiplier, just like Blademaster does for melee attacks.

And this, Ess, I love you, and if I didn't know you better I'd seriously think you were trolling. "mathematically equivalent" basically just means "have equal numerical value", right? What makes them "mathetically equivalent" is the output of the function -- the function itself is irrelevant to that statement. So again, when you use this as a metaphor for a process in the round, this is where you say two things are "indistinguishable" and again it's the output that is indistinguishable. But you're jumping to your own conclusion here by using 4 and 4 in this metaphor. 4 and 4 are quite obviously not just similar or equivalent but in fact identical. The very thing we're debating is whether the outputs of these imaginary shaping processes would be identical. You've posited a scenario where they are visibly identical. (That's explicitly your assertion, that if the results are indistinguishable the same things are happening.) 4 and 4 are more strictly identical than that. This is subtle but misleading. And "Moreover, this indicates a more general level of similarity." You're saying here that if two processes have the same input and output, it "indicates" that they are similar. That is total baloney. You know very well that two entirely and completely different processes can overlap on one or more sets of IO pairs without that saying anything about generally applicable similarity. If function B were instead (6-x)+(y*0) you'd get the same result -- the suggestion that there is an "indication" here is nonsense.

No. For that specific case, the result of A and the result of B are indistinguishable. This is not semantics. This makes a big difference, because process A and process B may well either (1) entail other differences during the process that matter then if they aren't distinguishable later; and/or (2) produce other results which are meaningfully different, but which we aren't able to distinguish, because we can't see or aren't looking at those differences. No. You have not demonstrated that this situation exists, you have asserted without evidence that it exists. Or if you prefer, you have spun speculative evidence out of thin air and are using it as proof. Creating a clone of a creature -- not just its "tiny scrolls" but its actual brain, cognitive patterns developed through living and all -- is not something that was ever done or discussed nor was anything even remotely similar to that technologically/magically ever discussed. So regardless of whether or not it's possible, we don't know that the results would be "indistinguishable."

What. Ess, this makes no sense. Process A produces result X. Process B also produces result X. Therefore, according to you, we can't distinguish between process A and process B? Never mind that the results at issue here are extremely distinguishable -- even if they weren't, the processes remain 100% distinguishable.

Directly shaping an existing creature, and moving a brain from one body to another, are two completely different things. It doesn't matter what species labels you want to give either case before or after the change -- the changes themselves are completely different in character.

An all spellcasting party definitely isn't necessary, even on Torment. On Normal any sensible party will work fine. The Garzahd fight goes fine with an all-spellcaster party. Adrenaline Rush remains OP in A2:CS. Dual wielding, not so much -- it's OK, but it's truly outclassed by spellcasting.

I think I agree with alhoon. It's not hard to imagine what Ess is describing. It's also technically not what the game mechanics or in-game descriptions say. Maybe it's plausible that it could be done, and I certainly have no problem imagining that happening with a sequence of player creations for RP purposes... but that's very different from suggesting it is regularly possible in the game world itself. There's nothing to indicate that.

I just want to congratulate Ess on finding a way to bring up Thomas Riker in a thread about creation names. Impressed.

If I were gonna rank all the games in this regard -- how much strategic choices end up gravitating towards a single party+PC setup as opposed to diverging into a variety of interesting choices -- I think it would look something like this: Nethergate: Resurrection G4 G5 A3: RW Ava1 QW Nethergate Avernum 1-3 Exile 1-3 A6 G1 (shaping) G2 (parry, tho also introduced daze and creation creep began) A:EFTP (rush to adrenaline-filled spellcasters, dual-wielders with two specific weapons) Ava2 (sarcastic tinkermages + megahaster) A5 (adrenaline-filled everything) Ava3 (double damage tinkermages + megahaster) G3 (vlish) A2:CS (adrenaline-filled direct damage spellcasters) A4 (divinely touched nephils that shoot bows for kicks) Not 100% set on this but after giving it a few quick thoughts, yeah.

The Wikipedia entry oversimplifies. A4-6 use basically the same engine as Geneforge in terms of character stats and combat mechanics. The map is completely different -- Geneforge isn't visibly grid-based -- and A4-6 were larger on average than the Geneforges, certainly not small enough to fit in a single zone. Avadon and Geneforge don't use encounter maps, but they don't have world maps either -- or rather, there is no walkabout mode on the world map, just zones that you click on and immediately go to. I suggest you give the games a chance. Also, FWIW, if you buy directly from Spiderweb, they have a no-questions-asked refund policy that they are pretty generous about -- no specified time limit, just trust that people will use it in good faith. (This is, of course, in addition to giving money directly to an indie dev rather than to steam/gog/other middlemen.)

Avadon doesn't use a unified map like A4-6. It has separate zones, like Geneforge. I definitely agree with your gripe about the lack of range indications.

The answer differs for each game in the trilogy, but Adrenaline Rush is definitely one of the most impactful abilities. Hardiness especially is an incredibly strong skill for everyone, so there's no reason not to have mages and priests get Adrenaline Rush. How soon it's worth doing this depends on part on how easily available +weapon skill items and trainers are. In A:EFTP, there are several available very early, so you can easily dash to AR. In the others it's more of an investment. That said, the difference between AR and no AR is far more significant than the difference between early/mid AoE spells and mid/late AoE spells.

Unfortunately this isn't always the ultimate outcome of even Jeff's games 😅 but on the level of individual weapons, definitely. There is a positive trend over time here, at least. A3:RW and Queen's Wish are both a lot more like this ("no one best answer") than A:EFTP and A2:CS were.

That's not a text file, that's a truetype font. Fonts are considered system files for some purposes, so safe mode is probably what's stopping you from moving it.

All actual modifiers attached to items themselves affect your character globally. In the example above, Deadly Blow from the cleaver will affect missile attacks; the hit reduction on the shield will, too. The dual wielding penalty is different. It isn't a modifier on an item, it's just something that applies when you make a dual wielding attack.

I'll set things off with a plump "no." Not out of any disrespect -- they're simply very different. There are two very different approaches to world-building and story-creating here. Tolkien was attached, on many levels, to the internal consistency of his worlds (see in particular his essay about sub-creation), down to gritty details. He had no interest in "creating unique stories/situations" in isolation -- something that Jeff definitely does, and does well, in his games. Correspondingly, Jeff is a lot looser about canon -- Tolkien may have retconned things here and there over the decades, but he never, say, forgot an entire continent existed. Jeff delights in out-of-context cameos and parodies that speak to the present day; Tolkien wanted something that felt ancient, and went out of his way to disclaim any allegories in his books. Their world-building focuses on very different things. I guess Jeff has more in common with Tolkien than a big gaming conglomerate might. But that's not saying much. EDIT: Visual comparison:

Buzko is correct. You can only wear up to -5% without any levels in Swordmage. Also, it's not the "net" of ANY bonuses to hit. It's the net of all bonuses and penalties to hit on equipment. I don't think anything else counts. From my old analysis: * Swordmage (x4) (needs level 6) Needed if you want to use heavily encumbering armor on your mage. Too bad there isn't really a good reason to do that in the first place. You can wear -5% without this skill, and special hit chance bonuses from equipment counteracts the penalty, so a +5% bow (of which there are many) will allow you to wear a base of -10%. The negative hit chance greaves, gauntlets, boots, and helmets aren't terribly useful for a rear position mage anyway, and there is even one chest armor that provides 34% protection without encumberance (Runed Plate). There are some terrific shields without any hit penalty. -10% is enough for the Mercuric Leather + Quicksilver Bulwark, or the Mercuric Chain + Quicksilver Sandals. So you can even outfit 2 mages in AP+ gear without this. The other encumbering armors are a trade-off anyway since you miss out of the bonuses from the Robe of the Magi. Unless you are a singleton, this trait is unnecessary (and maybe even then).

Between Silvar and Duvno is exactly where the first Gremlin Grove in Spiderweb's history was. And they can definitely steal your food. Might be worth correcting the misinformation about game mechanics, at least.

Also, I don't remember what the food cap was in Exile, but it definitely was not 255, as this screenshot from google proves:

Since I'm being quoted without attribution or a link, and there is other relevant information in the original post, here is a link: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/21108-effectiveness-of-gymnastics-and-sniper-for-extra-actions/ The second quote appears to be from Triumph, and I would note that we also speculated, from some testing in A2:CS, that Luck may contribute 1% per point to the damage percentile multiplier (where almost all percentile bonuses are summed). I don't think we ever sorted that out conclusively.

I just googled. Good synthesizer music. Whoa. Nice stuff Tim.

The whole item list and equipment mechanics are very different from Exile, so it's hard to compare individual items and shop lists. But the "random selection" shops that could have amazing top-tier magic items for sale are definitely not a thing anymore. It's just fixed inventory for all merchants now.

ADoS, friendly suggestion. When you are feeling stressed out in general, and get frustrated with someone, might be worth taking it up with them privately. After somebody requests that the thread stay on topic, that's probably not the best time to air a personal grievance either. But since that's where things have gone, it's probably time for this thread to close.

And forgetting the legal concerns, this is ethically extremely problematic. We're not talking about a mechanical file format conversion here, we're talking about manually making choices about whether or not and how to edit other people's work. Without their consent. These sorts of suggestions, that are so toxic but come from the mouth of the project, keep other people away from this development project.

Yeah, this is still a creative idea that would unfortunately cause a lot of problems in practice.