wz. As

And it'd be a planar graph if it weren't for Nikki mucking things up. Can't you unmeet someone so we can lay this thing flat?

Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: wz. As Originally Posted By: Eponymous Heroics A p-zombie is something that behaves exactly like a human being but that does not in fact experience anything. In short, it's nonsense, and no such thing could possibly exist, let alone actually exist. That's a rather odd thing to say, considering that 20% of the people alive on Earth right now are p-zombies. you've stumped me. are you simply countering my ridiculous assertion with another?

Originally Posted By: Eponymous Heroics A p-zombie is something that behaves exactly like a human being but that does not in fact experience anything. In short, it's nonsense, and no such thing could possibly exist, let alone actually exist.

Nice. My line should be blue, if I even belong there at all — Sarachim and I went to the same high school at the same time but I don't recall ever actually speaking to him in person. edit: also, ash and marlenny are married?

What do the colors mean? EDIT: also, I saw Drakefyre on the street once but I only recognized him by his facebook picture and he didn't see/recognize me. does that count?

I think Thuryl has it right. What is it that "punishment" (I'm not sure that it's the best word to use here) is supposed to accomplish? 1) Deterrence, 2) protection of the rest of society from the offending individual, 3) rehabilitation, if possible. Not necessarily in that order of importance. Some would also probably add *4) retribution, but personally, I don't think it belongs in the list. 1) How do we deter humans and programs from committing crimes? Devise negative consequences for those actions, so that committing a crime becomes less desirable than not committing a crime. The exact consequences would have to be tailored to the desires of the individuals, or they wouldn't be negative consequences. 2) If the threat of negative consequences fails to sufficiently deter evildoers, then society needs to be protected in other ways. Society can attempt to reduce opportunities for crime (e.g. by having more visible police officers so that getting caught becomes more likely) or by physically preventing offenders from repeating their crimes. (e.g. jail or death in the case of humans and embodied AIs, or pause buttons or restricted access to internet in the case of unembodied AIs.) 3) Rehabilitation in the case of AIs sounds complicated. Presumably, in the hypothetical situation where AI exists and commits crimes, we have already tried and failed to create non-offending AI in the first place. That would leave us with deterrence and protection. I think any solution leads us towards having to psychoanalyze the AIs. If we try to rehabilitate them, how do we know when we have succeeded? How can we predict the recidivism rate for rehabilitated AIs? How can we devise a deterrent that would actually work on an AI? These questions require us to understand the AI's mind. "Punishment" is beside the point. I think the thorny question here is, "How bad should we feel about pulling the plug on an AI or reprogramming it in some way that changes its essential nature?" Our level of empathy for various creatures varies widely between people (there are treehuggers and dog lovers and racists), and some people will think of AIs as more "alive" than others, leading to disagreements about what courses of action are actually available to us regarding dealing with AI.

Uh, my comment was somewhat rude. sorry about that. in the future I'll try to be silent if I'm not being constructive.

Re: Ephesos You missed one http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=181393#Post181406 and http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=181394#Post181405

I agree with slarty. My first thought on reading the update was, is this a joke? All the bad things from A4 and previous games? I suppose we should remember that even though lots of *vocal* people disliked A4, it sold very well.

I redirected Xelgion's attack to Nioca; that's why he died. --- Machrone asks "Is Wz As the Anama Hunter?" Machrone receives answer: No --- Tarson, I can only guess that no one believed you, and I'm flattered you used a question on me. Sorry about that Marlenny. My strategy was to make sure NO ONE knew who I was. The hardest part about it was not doing anything. Sorry Nioca, but I couldn't let you know who I was because at the end of Day 4 I needed someone alive not to win. Sporefrog, great job! Sleeping Dragon, even after I was told you were the DL Blademaster, you *still* convinced me you were Shanker. The only thing was, I didn't think there was a real Anama Hunter in play, so your "target list"...

awwww, seriously?

Is bad publicity (or mediocre publicity, or misnumbered publicity, or publicity you don't believe in) really worse than no publicity at all?

New voice, entering here: What exactly is going to happen when you do decide that you're "done" and that the discussion has ended in some sort of consensus? Everyone is free to create a CSR wherever someone will let them. I can't speak for Stareye, but I'd imagine the question he wants answered right now is, "If I create a CSR on the Spiderweb Boards in the way I have been describing, will you all help write reviews and/or help moderate it?" Just because someone creates a forum for something doesn't mean it will succeed; the point of this discussion is to convince people that a given proposal will work, and to convince them enough for them to agree to write reviews. Originally Posted By: Naughty Salmon So, is this a situation where the community gets to make a decision? Yes, insofar as you agree to write reviews or not. To everyone: if you like Stareye's proposal, now would be the time to say "I will contribute to the CSR as you have outlined it; I will write reviews." That goes for anyone's plan actually. If you like it enough to contribute, say so, because that is what determines whether it will survive.

Is it over?

I thought it was less likely that he was telling the truth than that he just made it up on the spot, and it appears I was right.

Hey everyone, Nioca just sent me a PM saying, "I'm the Pure Spirit and Omlette is Dionicio" — has anyone else received such a PM?

What happens if Vahkos sends out a spirit he doesn't have (i.e. one that was used up by someone targeting him)? If his attack just fails without any notification, that would make it pretty hard for him. It seems like he would just have to wait until day 5 and hope they weren't all gone.

A number of roles have rules about first strike. When they interact, which takes precedence? Let's take an extreme example. Suppose Gladwell has the Skribbane Addict as a target, recruits him, and then decides he wants him dead after all. Gladwell forgets to switch his immunity to physical and then compels the Addict to attack Gladwell himself. The addict has not taken Skribbane. What happens? - Gladwell gets first strike against servants - Compelled servants get first strike - Addict has not taken skribbane and hence Gladwell gets first strike - But they're enemies, so the Addict (the attacker) gets first strike Which of these wins?

Originally Posted By: Sporefrog Personally, there was no strategic reason. I just thought you were being a jerk and liked Sleeping Dragon more. Someone had to die, and I was bound by andraste's early help not to backstab her, and between you and sleeping dragon I preferred SD. We're the darkside, since when are we supposed to be nice allies? Both sleeping dragon and the blademaster were on shanker's list to keep alive. I'm not taking this game personally, and I'm not upset people betrayed me. I'm asking so that I can play better next time, and figure out how others play. So, I guess your answer helps. Thanks. Originally Posted By: Omlette wz. As: We knew that keeping you alive would mean killing Andraste, Rowen and Sleeping Dragon. Sleeping Dragon was our initial contact in your alliance, Andraste as Shanker had far more to offer us than you did, and Rowen would never hurt anyone (apart from w-dueck, who we wanted to hurt). We'd already promised SD that we'd get her a victory even if it meant killing you, and then I started the whole play-acting thing to pull you in to our alliance. For me killing you was a matter of loyalties: you had no business killing SD, so you were no longer a trustworthy ally and needed to go. That makes sense.

Rowen: perhaps I could have handled it better, but different people respond differently. Next game I'll know how to approach you But I think my downfall was more that my supposed allies were already predisposed against me. Of course, the DLs played very well and could choose whichever allies they wanted. It just seems like the path of least resistance for them would not be to betray Gladwell in an alliance they know will work. Was there a particular strategic reason that I was overlooking, Sporefrog? I thought I was closing off reasons to betray me by killing SD, and assumed that retribution would not be worth risking an alliance over. Or maybe the seeds of my destruction were sown before SD died?

A lesson I've learned on general strategy: Just because you're part of an alliance that has a 100% chance of winning if everyone carries out the plan, doesn't mean that people in the alliance won't stab you in the back in order to meet the goals of their other, secret alliance. i.e. there can be two different alliances with non-empty intersection such that either of the two alliances can win, and the key is to make sure you're in the right one.

Marlenny, Sleeping Dragon's death at least was right to be reported immediately, as Duck had power skill at the time, not stealth.

Originally Posted By: Sporefrog I mean you can call me a jerk, and maybe it's just pent up aggression after that last game, but I was fully intending to Rod of Alacrity the blademaster into your face. It's your first game, you aren't allowed to win yet! Great job moderating Marlenny. I want to know how Duck died, haha. And who was responsible for killing gladwell? I was about to do it to avenge Sleeping Dragon. Really? No fair! She wanted to kill me, I had to do it! You would have won anyway! Oh well, I thought it was a fun game regardless. EDIT: Nioca, I don't think you actually did too much damage. Duck, my heart goes out to you, my one true loyal servant. EDIT 2: Never mind, I see you were going to betray me too. Man, doesn't anyone like me?

Then I made the right decision

Yeah, sorry Sleeping Dragon. You made it clear you wanted to win whether or not I survived, and I couldn't quite trust you. Had you just handed over that holy symbol, all could have turned out well Good job DLs! That was really well done.