alhoon

Episode 59, I got to admit, you could take the Bandits AND the turrets together. Taking over the turrets to fight low-level bandits was plain cruel...

I laughed, and I laughed hard when you were so excited about the cannister and the artifact ingredients in the bandit camp that you... forgot to heal the poison and you died.

I could picture the Shaped cannister-junky turning green but crawling towards the Cannister as his vital organs fail with an outstreched hand saying "Mine! Mine!" and after using it dying content with a smile, the cannister's broken remains in his hands, last words being "my precious..."

Episode 60, that Rot from the trap... worse than an Unbound. Or at least close. I don't understand why the Shapers and rebels make so much fuss about them since bandits have access to as powerful creations in traps.

As for the chain misses of 2 85% misses followed by 2 90% misses.

I am quite convinced that you didn't stumble upon the 1/4500 chance that this had to happen. From this and other signs I believe the randomness generators of the game are not working well*.

I rarelly parry but if I parry, I chain-parry often even at 5%.

*Or perhaps it's by design. It could be that the numbers are random but correlated. As in, in 1000 hits, you would hit 850 times and miss 150. However those 150 miss chances are not uniform; they're close to each other to clusters of "bad luck".

I don't know how much you know (or are interested) by stochastic processes, time series and Markov Chains, so I'll not go further.

When I parry with my 3% I parry often twice.

However the "parry-heavy" periods are 3%. I.e. in one every 30 battles I go parry-heavy and in 29/30 battles I fail to parry consistently.

Another thing: OMG, Perikalia guards are really tough. Again, why the panic over the Unbound? Three of those can take one without casualties.

I think the reason the guards are so insanely tough here is because they represent more than "one" guard. Instead of putting in 3-4 guards with 150-200 hp and lower stats, they put 1 with 1000 hp that will be about as hard (less attacks, more hp).

Episode 61: You were right. The lag makes the episode harder to watch.

Ahh... Felicia and the quite open crush the belaguered commander of Rockfall has on her.

Along with Semini and Makar (and Makar nevered seemed to even acknowledge Semini's affection) they're my favorite "what-if" couple. I was trully sorry by their demise.

Unlike Makar-Semini Felicia seems to respect commander Rossi and at least realize her role in his life (the "I'm the only think that keeps him sane" remark).

Episode 62:

Wow! You're braver than I thought! You picked a fight with a Drakon and 6 Rots, with just your 5 creations (3 of which are tier 3).

Brave indeed. Not exactly reasonable or realistic, but brave.

If I may, what I did is after more or less shouting "THIS IS SPARTA!" to his face to play tough (like you), I ran back through the reaper turrets. They reaped them appart!

But alas, the frame-rate is really bad in this one...

And the discussion with the poor servile in Vengeance that wanted something more than her life... NOW I remember who is Preva! I hope you haven't turned her in.

In case you still can, you could talk to Preva about this gal. I think. I'm not 100% sure.

And another thing, one of the few times that I found GF5 to be short-sighted. If you recall (min 15) you find in Fort Vengeance some creations that are becoming dangerously close to rogue... and auto-calm them.

No choice about whether you WANT to do it. My character, quite pro-rebel at this point, walked around a corner and helped the enemy. Just cause.

Anyway. Cyprien, the snobbed and discontented mage of Fort Vengeance. Did you find any way to turn her rebel? She seems the prime candidate I would target for recruitment if I was a rebel. Skilled, powerful and 2nd-class because the Shapers said so. Literally robbed of her potential by a controlling and powerhungry elite.

Alas, rewatching this episode (Cyprien + Tima and Thoma the Serviles) I remember while I despise Shaper law so much and why the rebellion was necessary. If only the Drakons had a lesser hand in it...

Alas, it is what it is. It probably took me quite some effort around this time in the game to not go full Rebel but remain somewhat in the middle.

I won't start another long rant of why the rebellion is a direct consequence of the Shaper law, not a result of the SLaw not being followed though.

To return to commenting on your comments... You're right that she seems a trakovite candidate too. Perhaps that's why I didn't find a way to make her rebel.

Well, I can't add many words in the same paragraph. There's a limit. Go over the letter limit and it crashes. I had to figure the hard way. But I'll see what I can do.

Without spoiling much, there'll be a tribute to both of you in the next version of my mod:

May I suggest you try the "V1.1" that I'll upload soon, including the corrections and suggestions from this thread? Our name-changing moderator has provided some ideas for improvements on the research.

As for save-game compatible: It is. I made the whole thing with my before-ending-choosing save.

As a note, if you're level 45 you can already defeat everything with ease but I'm sure you will still enjoy the mod. There are hidden gems there.

To try the mod, I would suggest again you make a save before choosing a faction and start from that save.

Well, the long-companion Vlish (that by that time would be higher level than the mega-Vlish) is not affected by the research. What the Megavlish research allows you to do is to "catch up" if you decide to make Vlish. Add in the artifacts\items that give levels on creation and cannisters\training and the Megavlsh would be at the same level as a Vlish that has been with you since the second area.

Same with plated clawbugs.

Of course you cede other bonuses to do that, but that's the choice of the player.

As a note, I cleared a few high-ish level encounters with just my mega-Vlish and a just-spawned Wingbolt fighting together. Same with War-trall and Plated clawbug.

The Mega-Vlish did better against magic-resistant creations and slightly worse (but with curse) against non-magic resistant ones (Rots). The Vlish was so high level, that it was taking less damage than the wingbolt in some attacks.

I was really impressed.

In the end, it was really fun to have a str 34, dex 34, 600 hp Clawbug and a str 31, dex 33, 420 hp Vlish vs Rots and Drakons.

And fun was the target. So... I consider that a job well done.

" the player who goes this route is still taking a loss, compared to just making wingbolts and taking the other bonuses instead. "

True, but Trashing Gazaki Uss with 2 Vlish is funnier.

" I'm glad you liked the idea and appreciate the min-maxing, but no actual deferring please. "

I kinda need your expertise here. My +6 lvls, boosted-to-cost-60-essence Vlish has about the same hp as the WBolt, does 1/2 the damage but curses enemies. And it's about as hard to hit. I think ... it's fairly powerful. Boost the Vlish to cost as much as the Wingbolt and it is a quite better creation. Which is OK, cause it's still worse than gazers that you would have by the time you get spawning 30-level Vlish.

What do you think? We're REALLY at the threshold that the protagonist can make Vlish more powerful than wingbolts at about the same essence cost.

We could well go back to the 4 Vlish armies...

Plated Clawbug +6 lvls boosted to 90 essence is not as good as a war trall, but certainly not useless. Not sure how WTralls compare to Rots, but still remarkable.

I guess that at +4 lvls (which would be in the "I don't have 140 essence to spare for an extra 4-tier" part of the game) if you have focused on 2-tier you'd be better off with a slightly boosted 2-tier than a vanilla 3-tier for a tough battle.

Is it too much? It doesn't matter?

Yeah, I'm doing tests on Vlish\Wingbolt right now. The mod is for Shapers\Lifecrafters so essence is not that much a problem to mitigate the huge advantage in level, hp and damage of the wingbolts. I'm actually going for "Vlish that costs 70 essence to be able to sliiightly compete with 140 essence costing wingbolt"

Roamer\Kyshaak is not even possible so I won't sweat over it.

Battle Beta \ Rot ... ? That I'll also try to peg at "Beta costing 1/2 as a rot to be able to not make a fool of itself compared to the rot."

If you have more suggestions, keep them coming. The "Boosting all low-tiers together is not game breaking" was an eye-opener. And I totally respect the work you have done on game balance and optimization. So I defer to your wisdom.

Sold.

You convinced me with the "If I spend the entire game collecting research on Vlish, why shouldn't they become better than wingbolts?" argument. And you're also right that no, they won't be better because they have a total of +8. Especially considering what other things you opted out (don't spoil please! It's the big surprise!) so you can get supervlish.

By the time you have gathered those 20-30 research notes, you would already HAVE wingbolts most probably in your arsenal. So expendable Vlish would need that +8 to compete.

That I'll do: All 3 same-tier raise (but it'll be more expensive) together.

And most importantly... You don't have to make super-Vlish or spend half the game going for the most badass Vlish the world has ever seen. But if you want... why not?

Thanks for setting my priorities straight. I won't go for Super-vlish \ Mega-Drayks \ super-Cryoras. Others may want to. And you're right. If a player wants to spend effort on getting the Drayks of apocalypse... it shouldn't be effort spent in reloads when it could be effort locating notes and equipment.

To my defense...I am not a game designer. I made the wrong choice. V1.1 will also have corrected the choices to remove randomness.

First, thank you for the interest and the comments. As well as the correction. V1.1 Will have that corrected.

Second, about the research:

- The most important reason is game balance. There are over 30 research notes and you could buy more. Focus on Vlish for long enough and you'll end up with Vlish that are better than Wingbolts.

- I could of course just... increase the cost for focused creations. However the protagonist in my opinion (and is reflected in the mod) works on notes from here and there. Some notes about Drayks. A nice idea about Vlish. The problems someone stumbled when trying to make Fyoras.

He doesn't have a full Shaper Library or laboratory. He's mostly using his genious to back-engineer from and improve on other people's work.*

- Thematically, based on the identity of the protagonist, not my ideas, stuff we know from the 1st chapter of the game (heavily changed, powerful, re-awakens lost powers) I felt that he should be good in all low tier creations. Cheap research is the way to do it IMO.

- Save-scumming is of course an option and I don't mind that. People that want to reload for a better result are free to do so. I don't frown on that... I'm a compulsive-loader myself .

If I may spoil future plans for you (about other character types, not Shaper/Lifecrafter),

EDIT:

* What could be done on V1.2 is simply to have side-quests where the Drayk-mad \ Vlish-mad \ Cryoras-are-underestimated-mad protagonist simply looks for and tracks the right research.

- Taygen is reportedly Brilliant... raiding his place could help our Drayks-better-than-Drakons protagonist.

- What more can be found in Rawal's repository? Probably what the protagonist needs to make terror Vlish that are, indeed, terrific.

- Benhold is hitting Shapers. Did he steal that valuable report about Uber-Fyoras?

That kind of thing.

But... to be frank, I prefer to work on the Agent\Infiltrator Origins (V2)

You may both be interested in this. It's a mod I made, that I am very proud of. I've modded many, many games (practically all modable games I have) but rarely I am so pleased with the result.

It's Blxz's videos that renewed my interest in GF5 and thank you for that.

After a lot of work, I can finally present to all you Geneforge fans a new modification for GF5.

The mod expands the content of GF5 without altering existing quests\endings\content by adding a new, large, quest chain for Shapers \ Lifecrafters (only for those). It adds choices, it doesn't remove any existing ones. The content is combat-light... unless you decide otherwise.

The only assumption this mod makes aside of the game is...the identity of the amnesiac protagonist, that he discovers bit by bit.

As such the quest chain can be completely ignored without any effect on GF5 game. Or... you can follow it, discover clues of who you are, choose to ignore or believe them, set up a research laboratory like so many NPCs have, discover amazing (but not game-breaking) powers and perhaps settle some old scores with past enemies.

To be clear, the protagonist doesn't discover any concrete proof to confirm the theory on his identity. You even have the choice to reject the conclusion at the end of the identity quest as false. But if you do, you won't get the idea to build up the laboratory.

I believe the mod increases the replay-value of GF5, since not only it adds exiting features and quests in certain locations, but you'll keep an eye open for the now much-coveted research notes in areas not affected by the mod.

At the end of the quest chain you manage to do something most people considered impossible. Both people in the game and gamers that play the game alike.

You can find the mod (V1.1) here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/z2mj9c09253w6c1/GF5Origins.rar/file

Installation instructions

Clarifications

EDIT: I'm working on a new mod for Warriors and Guardians. You take command of a Rebel outpost. See post 19 for more details.

About my motives: Why I decided to spend that much time on a mod.

Changes from V1.0

I was interested in AoD too until I read the reviews that you have to stick to a character path progress and keep it, or you start failing skill checks pretty quick. I have found a very rough solution to this (namely, cheating and increasing ALL the skills so that I could explore other options) but that's not what the game developers wanted; they obviously wanted to make it "stick to what you know and don't deviate much".

I will soon have something for you to check... but I won't say more at this time.

In 650 years, a group of serviles will trade stories about how their race was created because the first Shaper had to spend days on end shredding paper before he decided to do something about it. Make something about it.

The simplest and strangest of the five sets of endings.

If I may ask, how you investigated the endings? Is the text in some file?

Well, you'll find work soon enough I hope. Geneforges would be come hot once you finish yours, so you would find employment soon enough!

Interesting perspective! Litalia certainly does want to induce fear (of shaping) and use it to change the behavior of a government or civilian population (the shaper council), so she meets the typical statutory definition…

But she doesn’t really tweak like a terrorist. The terrorists I know about, whatever they say about the world they want to build, always seem to have a good head of revenge or resentment on.

...

Litalia, by contrast, has gone through two kinds of crazy and come out calm on the other side.

Very heavy spoilers follow:

No really, heavy GF5 spoilers.

What Litalia herself says (the relevant parts):

- Is it really possible to get a member of the Council to reject Shaping?

- None are so angry as a spurned lover. All we need to do is make sure that the Shaping art hurts them as much as it has hurt others.

NOTE: That reeks of revenge and resentment

- Wait ... Did you say to release the shredbugs?

- I did. They will do great harm, but that is nothing compared to the horrors that will be created if the war continues.

NOTE: Even in this no-judging game, the answer is astonishment by a person that could be played a cold-hearted murderer.

- Are you sure I can convince Astoria?

- No, but I think, when she sees the disaster that has resulted from her action and inaction, that you have a chance of moving her slightly. That is the best we can do at this point.

NOTE: The "action and inaction" that results in disaster, includes a Trakovite pressing the big red button.

Litalia admits she would sacrifice a good part of Astoria's people with bio-terrorism for a possible slight shift in Astoria's views.

- Now we must reach Alwan, that bitter old cripple.

NOTE: Resentment

- This belief is all that sustains his tormented form. We will take that hope from him.

NOTE: Cold. Chillingly cold. And vengeful.

- What will this do to the Shaper army?

- It will give them a very unpleasant time. Especially the humans. It will be gruesome, but this is what will be required to teach those still loyal to the Shapers that the safety and wealth provided by the creations is an illusion.

NOTE: Again, this "illusion" requires a Trakovite to sabotage a well guarded military installation.

- General Alwan seems unshaken.

- Oh, how I loathe that man. He will be a fanatic, crazed and unbroken, until the day he dies.

NOTE: Slaughter and pain to destroy one man's hopes. Failed. And it's the one man's convictions that are at fault.

Keep in mind that is LITALIA here decrying fanaticism and madness. More like "I flip my world view like a coin every few years leaving a pile of corpses. Why can't he be the same?!"

- Do this. Create temporary, nightmarish chaos. Enough that even a madman like Taygen can see where Shaping research leads.

- What do you want the disease to do?

- Cause enough pain to make us all fear Shaping as much as we should. But not enough to scourge Terrestia of life.

NOTE: That's more or less the definition of Bioterrorism IMO.

- I have Shaper Rawal's control tool in me.

- She laughs. "Rawal is not the first to have this idea. Ghaldring and I made the same thing. Then discarded the design. It is just too unreliable. "

NOTE: She didn't say "it's a disgusting evil thing". Nooope. Unreliable because it kills your best abusable tools. It prematurely kills your best servants.

And after aaaaall these:

- I am through killing. I have no more use for these. I will never take another human life.

Riiiiiiiiiiight Litalia. Shredbugs, an army of rogues and an imperfect disease will do that for you.

She started the Rebellion and she is the one to end it.

And another thing: If you kill the madwoman she breaks apart to slime and essence. She hasn't deshaped herself. She just thinks she did. Why? Because she's mad.

It's been months, and by all that's reasonable it should have been more months since I last played GF3. But I couldn't stay away much longer. I had to scratch that GF itch.

Progressing a bit with the story.

Gatherers camp: the place where the loyal gatherers sit and wait for Diwaniya to finally do something.

That's why I dislike Shapers: The people there are very worried that the Shapers would "not see a difference" between loyal gatherers and Lankan's troublemakers.

Diwaniya lab:

Too. Many. Mines. He could have used them elsewhere. Kudos on him for resisting the pull of cannisters. Especially since it was a cannister I wanted.

" A Shaper making waves of creations with which to harass the surrounding area would be dangerous, sure, but not the kind of thing that razes cities and crushes armies "

Monarch.

But yes, aside of that crazed old loon, you are right. Of course a lone shaper sending waves wouldn't raze cities but Shapers in the game in forts etc can handle shaping 7-10 war tralls or rots aside of a few creations around them. Those can defeat 30+ soldiers in open battle. Add in walls and turrets for the defenders and the soldiers would win, but with casualties. By the time the dust settles and all those rots are dead, the soldiers would be wounded while 10 more rots would arrive in 10-15 minutes. And then 10 more. And then 10 more etc

If the surviving soldiers get OUT of the fort/town to attack the shaper they would be caught in the open and killed.

So, of course a moderately skilled shaper with a pool won't be able to destroy a kingdom 8 Vlish\battle alphas at a time. But a competent shaper could overcome a town with 1000-2000 people with practically no casualties.

"Substitute "dudes with swords" for creations if you want"

There's another problem with this: A dude takes ~20 years to be competent with a sword. A battle Alpha takes a few seconds...

Yes, but that assumes another shaper and one that knows where the monsters are coming from and the forces mastered to be able to overtake the Shaper going berserk in the pool. Of course there are counter measures. But that could be said for anything.

Yeap.

See the fight in the end of GF5 in particular. There are 3-4 Shapers and 8 Drakon lifecrafters. They have probably 100s of pods each. The battle could go on forever... This dozen of lifecrafters makes over 500 creations.

What I'm saying is that if there's no shaper around to counter a Shaper with an essence pool, he could send 5 by 5 by 5 creations out to fight and die. I have emptied whole zones that way.

I defeated the whole Rebel army in GF5, that's in the border with the 4 Unbound that way.

That doesn't change the fact that if fed and not over-used they could provide essence required for hundreds of creations each day.

Yes, essence pools are not infinite and they need to be fed and all.

But with one essence pool you could realistically have the equivalent of 50+ essence pods per day without endangering the pool. That's more than enough to cause a hell of trouble.

There would be no way to suppress the Monarch without Shapers/Lifecrafters. There was barely a way to suppress him without BOTH Shapers and Lifecrafters. All he had to do was create a few more mad creators to places he eradicated to wipe non-Monarch-shaped life out of existence. Till one day he would trip and lose his cane. That would be funny.

Was he immortal BTW? What was his end plan? OK, assume he got the continent to himself. Most of it empty. He could take a stroll on empty cities with his control baton.

And then... what?

OK, he loved solitude. If people around him bothered him so much, he could just go to Sucia island or something and settle there to not have to face the world. All moral problems aside, EMPTYING a continent is kinda pointless.

From his notes, he didn't seem like a nihilist. He didn't want to empty the world to punish it or something.

PS Litalia