Necris Omega

One eye to see in infrared, one eye to see in ultraviolet, and one eye to decode those magic eye dealies.

What I'll be most interested in seeing is how the events of Avadon play out in the sequel. Sure, some things were "it doesn't matter at all what you do", but others kinda... well completely redefine Avadon as an organization. I've heard that Redbeard will have retained his position of power, which is... perfectly understandable from a design and writing standpoint, but kinda a kick to the teeth in the wake of that awful, awful boss fight. Sure, the only way to reconcile that is to go with "the keeper is missing!" in that regard, if only to avoid doing what Diablo 3 is doing to the anonymous hero of Diablo 1, but even that might get dicey. Still, with A:EftP being both a massive step up in most fundamental areas, and similar enough to translate, Avadon 2 will be leagues ahead of the first game.

Hm. Should we count Shale? ...

The only reason why I was able to get through the final gauntlet with relative ease this time around was because the LAST time I went through it in the original Avernums I made sure to burn the mechanics and general layout into the part of my brain that remembers that sort of thing. If Jeff had twisted that logic up, played with the layout, or just did more than make the enemies more "interesting", that would have been a headache and a half. Some of the monsters were... just mean.

Demonslayer's only Offensive bonus really does only come into play against demons, while other weapons like the Spectral Falchion have more general stats that apply to everything. Really, unless you've a really die-hard tanking character who goes all googly-eyed over the defensive stats, or are fighting demons, Demonslayer's... there are better choices.

Originally Posted By: (Spike ball) (Rocket ship) In fact, it's probably not accurate to describe the game as having three endings. Instead, it has three major victories to be achieved, and you've successfully completed the game when you've done all three. This is really the best way to think of it. Multiple endings usually means different narratives once the climax of a game has been reached depending on what's done before that - a Geneforge or Avadon. Avernum... no matter what you do, no matter how you handle things, whatever the case may be, the end result of your party's presence in Avernum is the same. You change Avernum for the better, three history defining acts, and the next game picks up from there. And there's nothing wrong with that.

The effect is really lessened when you're dual wielding, which most damage oriented swordsmen will, and the power is really undermined by being split between offensive and defensive traits. Still, as has been said before, it IS the most impressive version of Demonslayer to date - it just still falls short of the franchise defining ultimate weapon the effort, lore, and hype behind it would suggest.

Plus part of the issue isn't just a game-design modernization - getting the older Avernums and Spiderweb games to run on modern systems can be a challenge. That said, because it is a remake, it might just be dampened by the fact that a lot of his long time fans have already danced to this tune twice before, while Avadon's totally shiny and new. And has ninjas. But that's beside the point. For diehard fans, there's no issue, though. And, apparently, in a niche like his, that's enough to justify the work. Really, I think the only remake that made him say "never again" was BoA, though that had other issues than being a remake from my understanding. Besides, A2:CS will be less work now that he's done the new engine adaptation once already. That'll either translate to a shorter development time, or a lot more added goodies. Either way, we win.

Hm, what IS the limit on the Junk Bag (out of curiosity)?

Eh, I think the similarities would dilute the impact each one has. When everything is chocolate, chocolate loses its allure.

What Slarty said, pretty much - especially the comparison about Wart. When I said MMORPGs, I meant genres of RPGs, where battle is mostly a question of numbers rather than positioning, reflexes, and puzzle deduction. When a boss in a game that's based around such mechanics is focused around such mechanics, like a Zelda of Metroid, then that's fine. But when the primary focus of the game isn't, yet the bosses are, it creates an unnecessary disconnect. There's nothing wrong with letting the boss of a turn based RPG function and shine as the boss of a turn based RPG. It doesn't HAVE to try and be something out of a World of WarCraft raid. That's not what we're here for. That's not what makes the game great. The standing an existing system is what makes the game great, and there shouldn't be the need to supersede or undermine the system, if that's the case.

I don't know why, but it always bothered me that there was such a massive window for it, but so few destinations...

While it's really untrue, I've always been big on blaming the MMORPG for converting the idea of a Boss Battle from a question of fighting a very powerful and well equipped but otherwise standards respecting monster to something more of a spectacle, puzzle, or, to use my usual negative description, dance routine. Somewhere along the line the big bad couldn't just be a big bad, he had to be a big bad with a gimmick. And that gimmick couldn't just be a unique attack - it had to be something that was the entire focus of the fight. The Fight was less about fighting and more about pushing the right buttons, or standing in the right place at the right time. For my tastes, this shouldn't be. That's why I didn't like most of the bosses in Avadon. Hop on one foot over to this button/add, press it three times with your nose, and NOW I'll let you touch the boss. Once. Granted, there were some fights I've no complaints about, but to me it really represents what happens when you OVER design a boss. But I do think Jeff's getting closer to the sweet point in that. I honestly didn't think A:EftP had anywhere near the kind of annoying, MMORPG raid-boss type bosses as Avadon - sure, there were some "interesting mechanics" but I never really felt anything quite like having to dance for that stupid Drake, or, God forbid, fighting Redbeard. There the "special boss" mechanics never seemed to eclipse the actual fight, and for my entertainment, that's exactly how it should be. Yeah, I realize it's kinda hard to expect to go back to the days when Sss-thsss was just an XXL Slith Chieftain with a heaping helping of adds, but a tasteful use of non-standard mechanics, and ones that don't completely trivialize my attempts for turn after turn after turn... That works, and I think the latest Avernum is a great step towards proving and perfecting that.

Eh, I haven't played Chess since... I think before Exile 3 existed. I'd collapse faster than a lawn chair with a hyperdrive.

If you don't, the question of "what was there" will haunt you forever.

Originally Posted By: Marak Speaking of... There's a reason you don't see Jeff post on here much. I was hoping to mention that too, but couldn't find the link. Thought it was on another article somewhere, not his blog. Ah well.

Ah, nothing like scathing, totally nonconstructive criticism laced with baseless accusations and ignorance, eh? And some wonder why developers rank forum input on the low end of design input... If you want to effect change, raging against the machine/Jeff isn't going to do it. Try writing an in-depth review, hit the high and low points alike to establish a lack of bias and credibility, try to throw in some semblance of wit, and come to the table with specific instances and examples for your complaints. Throwing a tantrum at the designer is... well, you got enough of Jeff's attention for him to stick his head in and give you a proverbial raspberry, and if that's all you're after, well... congratulations. Otherwise... settle down, compile and rationalize your feelings, and don't expect to influence anyone with trash talk and rage.

True, and I always liked that idea, but I don't think that's been explicitly laid out in games hence, has it? Even still there are numerous descriptions of instances where the literal wealth in question is specifically coinage. But again, I really do like the idea of melting all valuables into an abstract number rather than having the character haul them around. When there's dynamic sales prices, it makes some sense, but unless there's some other reason for an item to exist other than being converted into gold (crafting, enchantments, spell components) ... eh, why just convert it into gold and cut out the middle man?

Eh, given one of the descriptions it's clear Avernum started minting it's own - not "gold" persay, but unique currency. On the rarer end of things, you have all sorts of ruins and such with treasure in them long before Avernum's establishment. Vahnatai, other, somewhat random and never fully explained ancient human settlements, the occasional Lich or dragon... And of course the Empire'd send down supplies, not to mention all the goodies left behind by the first expedition. That said, most cash'd probably be copper and silver minted by the Avernum government at this stage.

While I always thought Jeff's games did a great job of keeping money relevant throughout, A:EftP felt almost too restrictive? Costs are prohibitively high, and loot comparably low to the first incarnation. In the end, I gotta say Ackrovan is absolutely right, money is extremely tight in this one.

Considering I was used to a weapon where the full budget is based off offense rather than split between a half hearted, type limited offensive buff and a hardly noticeable defense enhancement, no, it wasn't. The damage range was higher, but nothing I would call spectacular or close to the "legendary" status and means of acquisition Demonslayer suggests. When dual wielding, as any damage focused swordsman can be expected to do, the difference is even less significant. In the end, I just don't see Demonslayer as the kind of legendary, game changing, ultimate weapon it's made out to be. Sorry, but from my experience with it I agree with the final A6 assessment - Demonslayer is more hype than anything.

Sounds very interesting - having just plowed through the game, I wouldn't mind seeing some revamping. Some thoughts based off all of three days (one Normal playthrough) of experience Weapons I like that you're upping the other weapons - my spearman always lagged behind my dual wielding swordsman. Likewise, bows and throwing weapons were never thrilling. Never picked up a shield or a braodsword for any real length of time - can't provide much insight on either idea. No solid input on any of the special weapons - I didn't run into many of them and I've no real complaints. Perhaps, however, the effect of Demonslayer could be strengthened? I've always found it to be very... lackluster even when thrown against its target of choice. Battle Disciplines I stuck to the simpler of ones, and can't say much here. Bladesweep could use a good buffing, though, I suppose. Spells Spay Acid was terribly weak for it's level - glad to hear you're changing it. Changing Icy Rain, however... saddling the mage with ALL cone spells...? The current incarnation is annoying enough as it is. I never used Howl of Terror because I've long since become adverse to such spells in Spiderweb games because they never seem to work ever. EVER. Nerfing Haste... Jeff's nerfed that ability over the years enough as it is. When every third enemy can Battle Frenzy en masse at will, something needs to be in place to keep things even. I never used Heal. Minor Heal and Mass Heal, sure, but Heal... never. So I can see why Minor Heal should be taken down a few pegs. You'll have to elaborate what you mean when you say, "modifying", "Holy Scourge", and "Flamestrike". One thing I would suggest would be to make Ward of Thoughts... DO something. Even at level 3 this spell was so absolutely worthless I would get frustrated and resort to cheating. I can see the goals in differentiating the two magic classes, and turning down the AoE a bit, but there are too many cone attacks in the game as it is, and all that accomplishes is choking an already stagnant arsenal of spells. Consumables Unfortunately, I don't know what to say here either. Early on in the game they can be very overpowered, but by midlevel I found most damage and effect wands and scrolls to be about as effective as name calling and fist shaking. Nerf them any further and they lose all value - buff them too much and it's too much. I can't see any sort of happy middle ground here. Buffing/curing items are another issue, but I see no way to fix them one way or another without extensive revamps of the item use system itself.

Well in many instances "Rakshasa" aren't demons in the same way that "demons" are demons. They're considered to be dark spirits from realms beyond the mortal, so, "outsiders", but they're not literal "hellspawn" so to speak.

Different mythologies, different standards. Besides, in classical European mythology, there ARE female demons as well. As to demonic reproduction... Well again, even in classical, European/Judeo-Christian Mythology, it happens. In the World of Avernum...? We haven't had the kind of demonology exposure to know or not. Are demons fundamental, eternal beings that have always been? Are they periodically spawned of raw darkness and evil? Are they comparable to mundane, biological creatures with a need to procreate to sustain their kind? We just don't know. Or at least I don't remember if it's ever been explained in detail.

Rakshasas are featured in other RPG platforms, usually along extremely similar lines as to the classical mythological description. You can find them in D&D, for instance. As an advanced Black Belt of Nerd-jitzu, Jeff likely encountered them there. As to their place in Spiderweb, well they've been a part of Jeff's work since either Exile 1 or 2.