Mechalibur

I double checked my Awakened file where I never joined the Takers. I got both of those canisters. I think the servant mind in Benerii-Uss power can unlock them for you.

6 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Takers will get you access to a Create Rothgtoth, but not the Create Gazer canister since that angers th Barzites. Which really only helps Shaper or Guardian a little. The Barzite canisters are way more useful to a power gamer.

 

Almost all the items rewards from the different factions are duplicated except the really nice Barzite charm.

 

The best reason to power game joining a faction is getting the higher level training early in the game. You can find/steal all the Servant and Awakened items without joining in other places. Money doesn't make much of a difference except early in the game when you are poor.

 

From an experience point of view. Because you gain less experience with higher levels, none will help you get more than level 24 and killing Takers is really needed to do that. All that joining a faction for their quest is speed up the process to go up quicker earlier in the game.

Do you actually need to join the Takers for that canister though? I was the under the impression you can get it even if they're hostile.

Sabotaging or stealing notes in the magus complex/Radiant College will turn that faction's main city hostile.

I genuinely have not been able to find any benefits to joining them.

So I guess my optimization strategy would be:

Say pro-servile things. Join the Servants using leadership. Loot the Warrens and buy whatever cheap training you want from Tyallea. When you want to move on to the highest level training, join the Awakened, loot the room by Pinner with the key she gives you and get augmented by Tuldaric. Then stick with them until you've done all the quests that require Takers not to be hostile, go to Darian to change your rep, then join the Barzites and clean house. 

From a purely optimization standpoint:

Servants and Awakened are good for early training access. You don't even need to make it to the loyalist encampment any more, Tyallea will teach you pretty much everything, including rotghroths. You can even bypass the reputation check with leadership. The downside is joining the Servants makes the Takers hostile, you can't enter their town or do any of their quests while aligned. The Awakened get you pretty easy access to every spell and creation (other than Cockatrice) and don't turn anyone hostile.

All the really good stuff, however, is with the Barzites. 6 canisters require the barzite badge, and can't be bypassed by killing Barzahl. You can get an extra rank in quick action for 2,000 coins if you join them. There's a unique charm you can get if you give them an extra conduit shard. They're the only faction that teaches Creat Cockatrice (you can get a total skill of 6 this way). And they give access to shaper record turn in for lots of cash and xp. Downside is Takers and the Loyalist encampment turns hostile.

Takers... are a role playing choice. I was unable to find any value in joining from a gameplay perspective. The Awakened get you all the same training so much earlier.

If you're with the Awakened, the captain in Triola can give you one.

You don't really need one though, the biggest obstacle in getting to Taker lands isn't the Takers themselves in my experience.

Take a deep breath

I think it's a rogue thahd you can do it to in the second zone. Most rogues can't be pacified with leadership though, so he's not really lying in that particular instance. 

I think Nora was always like that. Too bad the game never goes into detail about why she's so loyal to him.

Certain scripted encounters allow you to calm down or control rogues with leadership. It's not a regular skill you can use at your discretion.

Jeff did a pass on all the dialogue, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's new.

The game is also pretty frank about Zakary's pathetic nature. So many lines of dialogue with him reference his lack of talent, integrity, or backbone.

Acid - Spray Crystal and Searing Spray (at level 2+). There's no acid baton.

Shocked - Glaahk passive Shocking Skin, maybe? Never actually tried it, not very reliable since they need to be hit by melee. Additionally Essence Lash will only inflict it at level 2 or higher.

Burning: Essence Purge needs to be level 2, for what it's worth. So Ur-Drakons can't inflict it with their version of Essence Purge

There's an ice DoT in the files called Frozen, but it doesn't actually seem to be possible to inflict.

I'm starting to suspect Ornks may not be the strongest creation.

There's no time limit. Until you tell him what he should do with his life, he'll go from town to town as you direct him. More spoilery notes:

Then the game would have to be balanced around them. They're a nice bonus when you get them, but the lack of level ups prevents you from having a full army of units with no essence upkeep, which I think is a good thing.

9 minutes ago, Marzog said:

Do the canisters still count as a level of training like in the original? I recall having to save the canisters of certain creations and spells if you wanted them to reach level 3 since you're only allowed to train skills twice. 

 

Nope. Pick them up whenever.

6 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Helix Ring (+2% physical and magical armor) - maximum 3 augmentations

Need to kill certain named NPCs while in inventory to charge

For anyone curious, the following NPCs can charge the Helix Ring:

Zakary

Learned Pinner

Tuldaric

Barzahl

Stannis

Syros

Rhakkus

Akkat

Phariton

Interestingly, Easss does not appear to qualify.

The ring must be in your inventory. It can store extra charges, so you don't need to spend the stored energy before killing someone else on the list.

Yep, no weird optimization needed for when to increase your skills thankfully. There are a few increases from quests and stuff, but they don't affect skill costs.

Yeah. So a point in Fire Shaping will get you -2 control for fire creations and -1 control for other creations. Control is pretty much a non-issue, I actually wish it was harder to reduce control level since you don't even need to think about it any more.

3 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Battle Shaping:

Create Thahd - at battle shaping skill 1 - Volatile Thahd - at skill 2

Create Clawbug - at skill 2 - iron Clawbug - at skill 3

Create Battle Alpha - at skill 2 -Bbattle Beta - at skill 4

Create Rotghroth at skill 3 - Rotdhizon at skill level 5

Create Ornk - at skill 1

Missing the Stalkthorn here (requires 2)

3 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Daze - circular area to daze foes

Wrack - circular area to make foes have  -15% to hit and damage, chance to slow to lose turn (need Mental Magic level 1)

Dominate - causes foe to be charmed (need Mental Magic level 3)

Delirium - stronger version of daze and harder to resist (need Mental Magic level 4)

Wrack Wave - wrack on all targets in circular area

Mass Madness - all targets in circular area get different mental effect

Daze requires 1, Wrack requires 2, Wrack Wave is 5, and Mass Madness is 6.

3 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Heal - heals more damage in target than minor heal

Requires 4 in healing craft

3 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Quickladh - spray of energy t foe (need Battle Magic level 3)

Airshock - circular area of energy damage with chance of stun (need Battle Magic level 3)

Essence Purge - spray of searing energy and does fire damage for multiple rounds

Airshock requires 4, Essence Purge requires 5. Incidentally, Essence Purge only inflicts burning at skill level 2 or higher.

3 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Chain Lightning - Skill 5 - Does decreasing energy damage to nearby foes (5 spaces apart) and on harder difficulties will hit your creations  and friendly NPCs. Each level adds 15% bonus damage.

You don't get a 15% damage bonus per level, it just increases the damage dice of the lightning effect.

3 hours ago, Randomizer said:

Or consider dropping extra items for later in a cleared zone like the Crumbling Docks.

Here's another Mutagen-specific reference

Well it's a bit different from battle disciplines in that they don't have a cooldown and require essence to utilize (unless they were different in A5 - I only played the re-remakes)

I've actually found Weapon Shaping to be incredibly fun, whereas battle disciplines were pretty whatever to me. Most of the effects are pretty useful - doing stuff like chain lightning + a spray baton gives guardians great AoE options. Essence Lash gives a pretty noticeable damage boost at higher levels and wrack/shock are both excellent against bosses. Lifedrain gives some nice sustain, especially if you combine it with regen, which can be applied before battle and lasts a pretty good duration.

Thanks for the list! I noticed a few things seem copied from your Mutagen version of this and are different in Infestation:

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Switching between melee and missile attacks costs no action points

It actually costs 1 now (it was free in Mutagen)

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

The highest trap is 10.

There are a pair of box mines that are 12 to disarm in Benerii-Uss, but they're pretty easy to cheese (enter combat room, step in the room, step out). Outside of those mines, there's also a check in Benerii-Uss that requires 11 mechanics to open a door.

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

War Blessing - +!0% to hit and damage for 4 turns

Protection - -10% chance of being hit and reducing damage (need Blessing Magic level 1)

I believe War Blessing now requires 1 Blessing Magic, and Protection requires 2.

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Mass Energize - gives all blessing, shielding, and hastes (need Blessing Magic at 3)

Requires 6 now.

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Mass Restore - heals damage and cures affliction for all  nearby (need Healing Craft level 3)

Should be 5 healing craft.

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

The maximum Leadership needed in the game is 11

I went through leadership checks in the scripts and the highest I could find was 10, although it's possible something was changed since I last checked.

1 hour ago, Randomizer said:

Even on torment difficulty they will survive since there are 4 canisters and joining the Obeyers to get another level.

I don't think you can join the Obeyers in Infestation 😄

Randomizer made a great resource for changes from the original series here, but I wanted to include a list of content that is different specifically from Mutagen as there are a surprising number of changes and balance tweaks that Spiderweb made. This isn't completely exhaustive (I won't mention stuff like a weapon now has one more damage die), but anything significant should be on here.

Main Character

• Inherent Mental Resist lowered from 75% to 50%
• Main character can no longer be charmed - if you would be affected by charm you are instead stunned for one round
• Guardian has lower starting combat skills
• Main Character starts with 1 rank in Minor Heal, Firebolt, and Create Fyora. These count as one level of training, so trainers can only train you one more time in these skills

Equipment

• Weapons now have an inherent 3% accuracy bonus per weapon level. This massively increases weapon attack accuracy compared to Mutagen.
• Tranquil Batons now inflict 3 turns of Slow instead of Fear (against bosses, I actually consider this a buff as very few have notable curse resist)
• Purifying Blade can now eat more canisters (up to 10 total).
• Rod of Succor now cures conditions in addition to healing.
• Rod of Battle now gives War Blessing, Shield, and Haste.
• Swapping weapons in combat now costs 1 AP (used to be free).
• Small changes to various pieces of equipment. Robes give a bit less magic resist, some equipment that boosts creations now affects different stats (like increasing creation mental resist instead of intelligence), Reaper batons have a higher level.

Spells

• Airshock now deals cold damage instead of energy.
• Wrack now is a fast spell, but only targets a single enemy.
• Essence Shield is now a Blessing Magic spell instead of Healing Magic.
• Mental Magic and Blessing Magic now requires 1 point before learning the entry spell (Daze/War Blessing) instead of 0 like in Mutagen.

Creations

• Leadership now lowers control penalty (first point and every other point appears to lower it by 1).
• Shaping Skills now lower control by 2 for creations of that type instead of 1. That means increasing a shaping skill will never result in a lower control level.
• Cockatrice no longer has a control penalty and has higher base hp/level.
• Flash Shield, Flash Blessing, Vulnerability Field, and Fragility Field (Artila and Vlish abilities) are now fast actions (6 AP) instead of full actions.
• Increasing a creature's stats now increase them by 2 at a time instead of 1.

Enemies

• Pylons now go into repair mode when dropped to 0 hp and will eventually recover. You *really* aren't supposed to fight them in most situations.
• Enemies that inflict terror now almost always only inflict 1 or 2 rounds of the debuff.
• Boss enemies appear to have resistance to damage over time effects (Stuff like Acid, Burning, or Shock will deal closer to 5% damage than 15%).

New Content

Randomizer covers it better here, but as for the new content compared to Mutagen...

• New Weapon Shaping system allows weapon-based skills that can be trained, provided you have enough combined melee/missile skills.
• New tier 4 creations, as well as the Stalkthorn, a battle creation.
• New spells for each magic skill, totaling 6 spells for each.
• You can now get 2 levels of training from trainers around the world. Canisters aren't the only means of progression any more.
• Lots of new equipment.
• There are some helper NPCs that can join your party. They don't level up and have fixed abilities, but they're extra help. You can dismiss them and they'll return to where you recruited them if you want them back in your party later.

Well it's a remake. People have known the general endings for about 20 years now.

I dunno, I think it makes a lot of sense to kill her, and the player certainly has a vested interest - it's not like she's leading the Rebels. You said loyalists shouldn't be able to kill Rahul, but the Rebel equivalent of that is Akari Blaze, right? Not Litalia.